Are you going for mainstream or self-publishing?

shadowwalker said:

Seems to me there has been a discussion or two on using proper terminology, though. An indie publisher is something specific within the publishing world. An indie writer - well, I'm one and I have no intention of self-publishing.

Anyway... just sayin'

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Well, that's fine, but it doesn't negate the fact that IDGS is insulting an entire subset authors and then marveling at the fact that they don't agree with him.

Yeah... I was having a bad morning, and that didn't come out at all the way I wanted it to. My apologies for sounding like an ignorant arse, and I deserve a scolding.

Do what makes ya happy, and ignore the naysayers (like me earlier, apparently).

IDGS said:

Yeah... I was having a bad morning, and that didn't come out at all the way I wanted it to. My apologies for sounding like an ignorant arse, and I deserve a scolding.

Do what makes ya happy, and ignore the naysayers (like me earlier, apparently).

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Dude, you do know how to win my respect.

As I said, I'm not self-published and have no immediate plans for self-publishing.

Peace.

IDGS said:

Yeah... I was having a bad morning, and that didn't come out at all the way I wanted it to. My apologies for sounding like an ignorant arse, and I deserve a scolding.

Do what makes ya happy, and ignore the naysayers (like me earlier, apparently).

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We all have those mornings.

It still brings up a good point and why I'm so glad that AW is here and available for writers.

It's my opinion that regardless of the route we choose along our journey to write and be published, every decision should be made with clarity of mind and all information at hand.

It requires sifting through the hype (on both 'sides' of the discussion) to get to the facts before making a decision. Sadly, many make emotional decisions and get caught in the whirlwind of the 'successes' of 'their side' that they aren't looking at things critically. Trade and self publishing both offer some wonderful opportunities but I really think that whatever decision is made, they should be made on facts and not assumptions of how 'they think things should work or do work'.

Too often, though, bad information gets promulgated and presented as fact, when it's not. It's someone's opinion, or worse, their prejudices parading around as fact that's used to validate their decision. And that's what bugs me the most.

Devil Ledbetter said:

I'm not a self-published author, but I'd like to point out that your "no offense" disclaimer isn't enough to prevent offense when you're declaring there is "nothing more defensive than an offended self-published author" and that they're "self-righteous" and they "make you gag." Or that they need some justification to use the term "indie."

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I think what he was getting at was that a lot of self-published authors have that kind of attitude. I've noticed that nearly all the self-pubbed authors on AW tend to be sensible and reasonable people, and I haven't ever had a problem with them. However, I think a lot of self-pubbed authors in general have this holier-than-thou, "I'm not selling out," "traditional publishing is a failing dinosaur and I'm on the cutting edge" mentality.

All I know is I've talked to more than a few self-pubbed authors with this mindset (none of them on AW, by the way). It's important to note that I've also talked to a number of skilled self-pubbed authors with a realistic and healthy perspective and legitimate reasons for choosing to self-pub, but I feel these authors are in the minority of self-pubbers rather than the majority.

_Jinx_ said:

Not everyone feels the need to have that... some can simply make a creation and be happy with it.

“There are so many attention whores out there, prostituting for people's acknowledgment”
―Jason Myers

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you may want to tone that shit down a bit, jinx.

Lots of folks would like the cash, the accomplishment, etc....you're new here, and I assume having trouble putting your thoughts into words, because surely you wouldn't be implying those folks, or anyone else not motivated by the "simple love of creation," are simply attention whores, correct?

Note: It's self-published, not indie-published; it's trade published, not traditionally published; commercial is sometimes used in trade publishing, as is mainstream (although less than commercial).

I'll go with e-self-pub but I'll consider myself a writer when (if) a big publisher will offer me a print deal.

Years ago, I went to a Star Trek convention where David Gerrold was the main guest. He wrote Trouble with Tribbles, but he also taught writing - and he took a class at the convention. At the beginning of the class, he asked who was a writer, and almost nobody put their hands up, because none of them had been professionally published. By the end of the class, he had convinced us all that we were really writers - we just hadn't been published YET.
So, I've been beavering away, writing articles for local magazines, and blogging, and secretly writing my novels - and over Easter I finally made the decision to self-publish on Smashwords. It has been such a liberating decision. I can now say I am a writer, and point to some fiction that I have written (no-one seems to thing that the blog counts towards Being a Writer!).

I'm going the self-publishing route because my novel is a vampire one, and I've seen a lot of agents say on their websites that they don't want anymore vampire, or paranormal books.

Secondly, my book takes place in the fall and if I were to go the traditional way, it will take longer for it to be released, say next spring. I think it would make more sense to have it out in the fall rather than any other season. So, by self-publishing, I would make sure that happens.

Trade publishers will still take vampire books if they're exceptionally good vampire books.

But you're right about the timing: if you go out on submission now, your book is unlikely to be published before autumn. It might be published by autumn 2013, though, if things move quickly for you.

Pearl said:

Secondly, my book takes place in the fall and if I were to go the traditional way, it will take longer for it to be released, say next spring. I think it would make more sense to have it out in the fall rather than any other season. So, by self-publishing, I would make sure that happens.

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Correct me if I've misunderstood, but this really shouldn't factor into your rationale for self-publishing.

When a story takes place has nothing to do with when it ought to be released. Readers don't make purchasing decisions based on things like that, and it doesn't affect the reading experience (with maybe a couple rare/specific exceptions). I doubt you'll ever hear someone say, "I want to read this book but I think I'll hold off because it's springtime and I won't get the full effect." You also have to keep in mind that it won't necessarily be autumn for all your potential readers, or that every region's autumn is the same qualitatively as your/your story's autumn.

Plus, what would that mean for stories that take place over multiple seasons or years or decades?

Mainstream. I am not confident enough to self publish.

_Jinx_ said:

I have used a comic site before to buy comics digitally and you read it online so you cannot pirate it/download and redistribute it.

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WHAT?!? If you honestly believe that then you are in for some serious disappointment. Anything can be pirated. You don't need to download it in order to do it.

Screen shots.

Really, protecting anything from pirates is a fruitless endeavor. You can't even protect print books from pirates, what makes you think reading something online would possibly be protected?

JayMan said:

Correct me if I've misunderstood, but this really shouldn't factor into your rationale for self-publishing.

When a story takes place has nothing to do with when it ought to be released. Readers don't make purchasing decisions based on things like that, and it doesn't affect the reading experience (with maybe a couple rare/specific exceptions). I doubt you'll ever hear someone say, "I want to read this book but I think I'll hold off because it's springtime and I won't get the full effect." You also have to keep in mind that it won't necessarily be autumn for all your potential readers, or that every region's autumn is the same qualitatively as your/your story's autumn.

Plus, what would that mean for stories that take place over multiple seasons or years or decades?

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You may have a point there, but I tend to be picky about timing - almost anal about it.

Another reason why I really want my book out soon is because I am one of the millions of unemployed Americans and I hope to make some money with my book as soon as I can. No, I am not hoping nor expecting to be as successful as JA Konrath or Amanda Hocking, but having a more money in my bank account would help greatly at this point in my life. Therefore, I cannot wait until next year for my book to published the old fashioned way. It would be nice to have my novel picked up by a publisher and go on a book tour, but maybe some other time.

quicklime said:

you may want to tone that shit down a bit, jinx.

Lots of folks would like the cash, the accomplishment, etc....you're new here, and I assume having trouble putting your thoughts into words, because surely you wouldn't be implying those folks, or anyone else not motivated by the "simple love of creation," are simply attention whores, correct?

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Agreed. I'm sure that if someone said you won a Hugo, you wouldn't turn it down. And I'm also sure that if you did, you wouldn't hide it under your desk and never tell a soul. Don't pretend like people don't care, people do even if they won't admit it - it's called being human. And more than anything, leave your I'm-more-of-an-artist-than-you-because-I-don't-care pretentious bullshit at the door. It's like saying modern artists can't be successful based on how much art they sell but how much they suffer for it. If they aren't living in a hovel barely making enough money to eat and living in a bipolar or schizophrenic damaged state, they somehow aren't as accomplished or true to the artwork as the person that actually has a job to pay rent. Get over it.

Pearl said:

You may have a point there, but I tend to be picky about timing - almost anal about it.

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If you're that certain ... the publisher could put it off 'til the next-following autumn list. (Though, like others, I wonder if Summer Of My German Soldier sells equally well in wintertime....)

Another reason why I really want my book out soon is because I am one of the millions of unemployed Americans and I hope to make some money with my book as soon as I can. No, I am not hoping nor expecting to be as successful as JA Konrath or Amanda Hocking, but having a more money in my bank account would help greatly at this point in my life. Therefore, I cannot wait until next year for my book to published the old fashioned way. It would be nice to have my novel picked up by a publisher and go on a book tour, but maybe some other time.

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J. A. Konrath has a lot to answer for. You're choosing $30, someday, against $5,000 up front.

Forget about book tours, BTW. They're rare, unimportant, and a general pain.

Pearl said:

You may have a point there, but I tend to be picky about timing - almost anal about it.

Another reason why I really want my book out soon is because I am one of the millions of unemployed Americans and I hope to make some money with my book as soon as I can. No, I am not hoping nor expecting to be as successful as JA Konrath or Amanda Hocking, but having a more money in my bank account would help greatly at this point in my life. Therefore, I cannot wait until next year for my book to published the old fashioned way. It would be nice to have my novel picked up by a publisher and go on a book tour, but maybe some other time.

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Pearl, I think you are going to be in for a rude awakening. I'm not saying that you can't be making money and be successful as a self publisher, but the vast majority of self publishers will make zero dollars from their book. In fact, most are probably negative after paying for the cover, the conversion process...etc...to put it up. I honestly hope you're not depending on it.

As for the the traditional publishing route to self publishing route, I think it's a moot argument. If one had a choice, 99% of the time, they will go with a traditional publisher. Face it, the .01% are people like Radiohead who decided to release their album themselves and ask people to pay what they feel they should pay. We are not Radiohead. Most writers who are successful self publishing have a very established fanbase. So the only question is, have you exhausted your avenues, and when do you decide to go with self publishing. And if you look at Konrath, he exhausted every traditional avenue before going with self publishing. And yes he's successful, but the odds are long. I think if your MS is good, you should at the very least give it a chance with a traditional publisher.

For example, in my case, I will never go with self publishing, even if my books are trunked. At one point, I believe I will hit with a publisher, and then I can dig out my trunked books and update them. That's more valuable to me than just "getting it out there."

James, Debeucci - thanks for your insight. Honestly! It has made me think twice about self-publishing, and now I seriously considering doing trade publishing. I guess I was too influenced by writers I know who did self-pub and felt that is the golden way.

Thank you again!

I just want to be read. However that happens on scale large enough to satisfy me I will never complain. Just throw a few coins in the hat as you pass.

I just want to be read. However that happens on scale large enough to satisfy me I will never complain. Just throw a few coins in the hat as you pass.

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Busker publishing?

buzhidao said:

Busker publishing?

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Hey, that was strictly figurative. I ain't sittin' on no sidewalk for nothin'.

Sounds like fun, actually :3

DeleyanLee said:

Depends on what I decide once I A) finish the novel and B) take a serious look at both markets when the novel's ready for marketing.

Now, I will write it well enough to shoot for traditional print publishing. But whether or not I'll go for a print publisher, an e-publisher or self-publishing won't be decided until I know what kind of product I have to offer and how much bother I'm willing to go through to market it--to either an agent/editor or direct to customers.

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This.

My long term goal is mainstream, but in the meantime I self publish some books in eBook form in order to make some money. I only make just under $700 monthly right now through that method, but it's better than not being paid while I ride the wave into mainstream.

PeteDutcher said:

This.

My long term goal is mainstream, but in the meantime I self publish some books in eBook form in order to make some money. I only make just under $700 monthly right now through that method, but it's better than not being paid while I ride the wave into mainstream.

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I'll take your word that you're making 700 a month off of two books. If it's true, you're doing better than 99% of all self publishers. Also, you'll be hard pressed to do better with a traditional non-big 6 publisher.