Rape Threats on Goodreads

gingerwoman said:

You know this was also posted, by a well respected author

So who knows what all happened.

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I don't believe her.

Dozens of posts literally threatening an author with sodomy, rape, and murder, on Goodreads?

I call bullshit.

Polenth said:

. But in that case, the best thing you can do is respect the author's wish to have some space. Supporting that site, and going along with their attempts to keep stirring things up, is not in the author's best interests.

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Um excuse me I posted one comment from one person and didn't even add to it except to say we can't really know what happened as there are different accounts. I don't see how that is supporting any site,especially some site I knew nothing about it until it was referenced in this thread. I don't even know what all the rest of the site is about.

gingerwoman said:

Um excuse me I posted one comment from one person and didn't even add to it except to say we can't really know what happened as there are different accounts. I don't see how that is supporting any site,especially some site I knew nothing about it until it was referenced in this thread. I don't even know what all the rest of the site is about.

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So maybe, before you cite a source as evidence, you should first find out whether that source has any credibility at all.

After all, if you quote a crackpot, no one can tell via psychic ability that you weren't actually familiar with the crackpot's teachings. We tend to assume you are, and that you're in agreement with the person whose signal you're boosting.

Yeah, you know what?

I believe her.

False accusations of rape are around 1.5%, less than the number of false accusations for auto theft. Don't see why it would be any different for rape threats. Girl has nothing to gain and everything to lose. It's not like rape threats on the Internet are exactly uncommon, and it's not like the default assumption is to actually believe confessions of rape or sexual assault or whathaveyou.

And I think it would be the gracious and decent thing to do to quit dogpiling on this woman and leave her the hell alone regardless of whether you believe her or not.

JMHO, though I do think this is treading awfully close to a RYFW issue, even if the writer in question is not a member of this subforum...

jjdebenedictis said:

So maybe, before you cite a source as evidence, you should first find out whether that source has any credibility at all.

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I didn't cite anything as "evidence" of anything. I posted that there were other opinions out there, about what occurred, and that therefore none of us who weren't there know for sure what really happened. That is all I posted.

Yorkist said:

Yeah, you know what?

I believe her.

False accusations of rape are around 1.5%, less than the number of false accusations for auto theft. Don't see why it would be any different for rape threats. Girl has nothing to gain and everything to lose. It's not like rape threats on the Internet are exactly uncommon, and it's not like the default assumption is to actually believe confessions of rape or sexual assault or whathaveyou.

And I think it would be the gracious and decent thing to do to quit dogpiling on this woman and leave her the hell alone regardless of whether you believe her or not.

JMHO, though I do think this is treading awfully close to a RYFW issue, even if the writer in question is not a member of this subforum...

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The evidence is not airtight, but it is persuasively in favour of the author having misrepresented things, possibly in innocence.

You can believe her, but it's not unreasonable that others don't.

I would dispute that she has nothing to gain by overstating the matter. For a self-published author, getting talked about is very valuable. No one gets interested in your book until they know it exists.

I also haven't seen a great deal of dogpiling of the woman in this thread. I have seen skepticism of her claim. Thankfully, most of it has been mostly backed up by evidence rather than any kind of knee-jerk reaction of disbelief.

gingerwoman said:

I didn't cite anything as "evidence" of anything. I posted that there were other opinions out there, about what occurred, and that therefore none of us who weren't there know for sure what really happened, and that is all I posted.

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Yes, you did. You made a claim: That there were other opinions. You offered the quote as evidence in support your claim.

I commend you for doing so. I just think you should investigate the credibility of your sources before you use them as evidence.

gingerwoman said:

You know this was also posted, by a well respected author

So who knows what all happened?

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Quoting myself. I see no "claim" there. I said I don't know what happened, and nor do any of you unless you were there.

Looking for support and validation is not the same thing as looking for attention.

And by the way, we aren't investigators and judge and jury, dudes.

gingerwoman said:

Quoting myself. I see no "claim" there. I said I don't know what happened, and nor do any of you unless you were there.

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Pardon me for not refreshing my memory on your exact wording; that was sloppy of me.

"So who knows what all happened?" strongly implies that you don't think the matter is clear-cut. The quote you offered was your evidence of that fact.

And your further statement: "I said I don't know what happened, and nor do any of you unless you were there," is the same claim worded differently.

So yes, you did make a claim, and you supported it with some evidence. I think that's great.

I reiterate: I merely think you should not repeat things blindly without worrying whether the person whose signal you're boosting has any credibility.

Yorkist said:

And by the way, we aren't investigators and judge and jury, dudes.

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That doesn't mean we aren't allowed to discuss the matter. This is a discussion forum.

JJ, this is kind of a touchy subject for me, so I am going to bow out before I am tempted to tread over RYFW lines. Hope you can respect that.

However, in conclusion, I will say this: real, live-action rape is notorious for not leaving behind enough physical evidence to convict even if you can get a jury that won't ignore, dismiss, or blame the victim.

Real, live-action rape victims don't want attention, they want support.

Real, live-action rape victims usually want to forget the matter as quickly as possible and don't want anything they wrote associated with some "oh, what a poor, pitiful victim" shit.

Real, live-action rape victims do not need judgment. They do not deserve analyses of their credibility.

Real, live-action victims of any other crime do not receive such scrutiny as to their motives nor to their character.

That is all.

--Y

Yorkist said:

JJ, this is kind of a touchy subject for me, so I am going to bow out before I am tempted to tread over RYFW lines. Hope you can respect that.

However, in conclusion, I will say this: real, live-action rape is notorious for not leaving behind enough physical evidence to convict even if you can get a jury that won't ignore, dismiss, or blame the victim.

Real, live-action rape victims don't want attention, they want support.

Real, live-action rape victims usually want to forget the matter as quickly as possible and don't want anything they wrote associated with some "oh, what a poor, pitiful victim" shit.

Real, live-action rape victims do not need judgment. They do not deserve analyses of their credibility.

Real, live-action victims of any other crime do not receive such scrutiny as to their motives nor to their character.

That is all.

--Y

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Thank you for your well spoken opinions Yorklist.

jjdebenedictis said:

I reiterate: I merely think you should not repeat things blindly without worrying whether the person whose signal you're boosting has any credibility.

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We are talking about random people we don't know on the internet.
I don't think we have any way of really knowing that any of them are more credible than each other.
Do you know all these people personally?
You seem to believe a bunch of random people that think Lauren Howard should be crucified, are obviously in the right because there are a lot of them, and only one of her, and they have some screencaps?
Personally I have seen large packs of trolls on non writing related boards and communities work together to dogpile someone, and they pride themselves on being devious in their dogpiling. They consider it "pwning" someone.
Also in my online experience the people most interested in screencaps are trolls who harass people and then screencap their reactions. Most other people don't spend their time screencapping everything they see online.
I'm not even saying that this is what happened here, but this is why I am suspicious, and don't think much of all the "evidence". Nor do I think a LACK of screencaps proves anything.

Again, the author has stated that she misunderstood the shelf names as threats. She has clarified that she did not receive any threats of rape, sodomy or murder. So, I'm not sure why it keeps being brought up as if it's still in question.

Because one author says she saw it? I watched everything as it happened. There were never any threats against the author, and I resent that this keeps coming up as a way to go after Goodreads and it's members. Sometimes a misunderstanding is just a misunderstanding. I, and most of the people I know, would call out anyone who threatened rape, sodomy, or murder.

I resent that she used threats of rape to gain sympathy, then used PMS as an excuse for her misunderstanding what happened. And, I find it infuriating that people so readily went on the attack, rather than investigate what actually happened.

I think this is a good time to close this thread until the mods can review it.