New York: Topless women in public are not breaking the law

Zoombie · May 17, 2013

http://www.policymic.com/articles/42359/topless-women-in-public-not-breaking-the-law-says-nypd

New York City's 34,000 police officers have been instructed that, should they encounter a woman in public who is shirtless but obeying the law, they should not arrest her. This is a good step towards gender parity in public spaces.

Good for them! Maybe people will stop getting such in a tizzy about female nipples if they see them more often...normalization and all that.

thebloodfiend · May 17, 2013

Zoombie said:
Good for them! Maybe people will stop getting such in a tizzy about female nipples if they see them more often...normalization and all that.

Hopefully.

My biggest problem is the guys who will leer and gawk and claim, "if you didn't want me staring and making stupid comments, you wouldn't walk around like a slut."

Alessandra Kelley · May 17, 2013

thebloodfiend said:
Hopefully.

My biggest problem is the guys who will leer and gawk and claim, "if you didn't want me staring and making stupid comments, you wouldn't walk around like a slut."

That argument was horsepucky about exposed ankles and it's horsepucky now.

Boorish manners are always boorish, and always the responsibility of the boors, not the people they are molesting.

Zoombie · May 17, 2013

I bet that in a few months, people like that will have gotten bored of leering.

Hopefully.

Xelebes · May 17, 2013

Boobs are nothing special if the lady wearing them is doing her normal things. There are actually only a handful of poses where boobs themselves are typically found attractive and the women here know what positions those are that make them that way.

Alessandra Kelley · May 17, 2013

Zoombie said:
I bet that in a few months, people like that will have gotten bored of leering.

Hopefully.

Eh. People have really exaggerated ideas of how attractive everyday nudity is.

Next time you're in a downtown crowd, look around and imagine everyone topless.

See what I mean?

I imagine it's going to be like bathing suits on the beach, which were fought over pretty hard in zer old days. Most people will hardly glance at them, some people will gawk, and some people will complain that the plain and ugly people shouldn't oughta be allowed.

And sunscreen sales will go up.

Zoombie · May 17, 2013

But don't you know, ALL BOOBS ARE TEH SEX

thebloodfiend · May 17, 2013

Alessandra Kelley said:
That argument was horsepucky about exposed ankles and it's horsepucky now.

Boorish manners are always boorish, and always the responsibility of the boors, not the people they are molesting.

I'm not arguing against this at all. If you'll notice, on similar threads about women and nudity, I've always been for topless equality.

I am, however, hoping the leering assholes won't make women feel uncomfortable. They are the biggest problem, here. Not the women. When you've got men who'll catcall at fully dressed women, I can just imagine the stupidity they'll start spewing, next. Hopefully, they'll get a sexual harassment charge or something.

ETA: I think you have a right to walk down the street without being harassed, and I'd hope something would be done about the harassers. That's all.

crunchyblanket · May 17, 2013

I dream of the day when exposed breasts are regarded with the same shoulder-shrug as exposed ankles. That doesn't mean I want everyone to stop finding them attractive - there are still people who like exposed ankles. Just...this whole 'mystique', 'forbidden fruit' thing, it pisses me off. They're (very small) bags of meat attached to my chest with nipples on - nothing more or less. They're not public property, and I couldn't give a rat's bottom what person Y thinks about them.

cornflake · May 17, 2013

The link doesn't work for me, so I dunno what that's from, but that's been the law for like, well over a decade afaik.

There's a yearly topless subway ride to the park for a picnic or whatever, that a bunch of women do to celebrate the day the court case made it official.

Topless equality in NYC is nothing new. Does the OP refer to an old case or some reminder or...?

Maythe · May 17, 2013

and some people will complain that the plain and ugly people shouldn't oughta be allowed.

How prescient:

Opty said:
People who are publicly nude are rarely the people who anyone would want to see nude. Nude beaches, for instance, are visual train wrecks and should be considered retinal assault.

Jcomp · May 17, 2013

Zoombie said:
I bet that in a few months, people like that will have gotten bored of leering.

Hopefully.

Doubtful. The dudes who ogle girls at the club three times a week never get bored. The dudes who frequent strip clubs not only never get bored of it, they pay to keep doing it.

And I'm not gonna sit here and act like I'd personally ever get bored with looking at breasts all day. Shit, I'm booking my trip to NYC as we speak...

Ken · May 17, 2013

... haven't done it in awhile but it feels good to go about without a shirt,
when up at the park and whatnot on warm days. Tank tops are the next best thing. So hey, if guys can do it and enjoy it, why not women.

Devil Ledbetter · May 17, 2013

There are always a number of topless women at Bonnaroo (it's hot there, and extremely laid back/non-judgmental). Bare breasts are really no big deal.

I hope this spreads outside of NYC. It's ridiculously sexist that women must stay covered while men can go around shirtless.

dfwtinman · May 17, 2013

So, it appears we've reached an age where women go topless, just as I have reached an age when going topless is a bad call on my part.

PS: Years ago, women commonly went topless at Austin's Barton Spring's Pool, a manage but spring feed pool.
(And I think it's still permitted but out of favor. MarkEsq.?)

cornflake · May 17, 2013

Devil Ledbetter said:
There are always a number of topless women at Bonnaroo (it's hot there, and extremely laid back/non-judgmental). Bare breasts are really no big deal.

I hope this spreads outside of NYC. It's ridiculously sexist that women must stay covered while men can go around shirtless.

I think this has spread most places. I know in Ontario it's just as legal; there are a number of cities in, if not the state of California, that have had a case. I think Chicago or Philly did, etc.

There's no legal basis for restricting legal toplessness to males, hence whenever this comes to court, it generally goes this way.

Again, this has been perfectly legal in NYC for years and years.

AncientEagle · May 17, 2013

Xelebes said:
Boobs are nothing special if the lady wearing them is doing her normal things. There are actually only a handful of poses where boobs themselves are typically found attractive and the women here know what positions those are that make them that way.

You and I must have been looking at different sets of boobs. Somehow I was conditioned while growing up to think the things that make women different from men are attractive. Otherwise I'd feel my pulse rate quicken when I glanced at a man's chest, or his hips, or his legs, or the way he walks, etc., etc. But I don't. I'm attracted to women. I like it that way. Doesn't mean I leer, and I've never wolf-whistled at a woman in my life.

I'm all for equal rights, and if that means women can go topless, no problem. But I refuse to apologize for finding certain specifically female characteristics attractive.

RichardGarfinkle · May 17, 2013

It seems to me that there are a number of fundamentally different personal and social reactions that have been mushed together in this kind of situation.

The simplest is the personal reaction one person has in seeing another. Part of such a reaction can be a feeling of sexual attraction. There is absolutely nothing that can or should be done about this. It's a human and/or animal response to a stimulus.

But a number of things that (I'm going to put a batch of joke verbs here to get it out of my system) come out of / pop up / are erected from this basic reaction are problems.

1. People have been taught to judge each other based on this reaction, as if this were the most vital determinant of human interest.

2. People have been taught to judge others based on the perception that those others might be trying to elicit (or solicit) a sexual reaction.

3. People have been taught that because people have sexual reactions to other people that society has a right to control what people do that might elicit such a reaction (even though this never ever ever ever ever works).

4. People have been taught that if they have a sexual reaction that somehow entitles them to the attention and/or favors of the person they feel attracted to.

It seems to me that these are the problems, not the sexual reactions themselves.

Xelebes · May 17, 2013

AncientEagle said:
You and I must have been looking at different sets of boobs. Somehow I was conditioned while growing up to think the things that make women different from men are attractive. Otherwise I'd feel my pulse rate quicken when I glanced at a man's chest, or his hips, or his legs, or the way he walks, etc., etc. But I don't. I'm attracted to women. I like it that way. Doesn't mean I leer, and I've never wolf-whistled at a woman in my life.

I'm all for equal rights, and if that means women can go topless, no problem. But I refuse to apologize for finding certain specifically female characteristics attractive.

I'm someone who has been accultured to seeing people naked a lot. To me, it's only sexy when a woman signals. For you, a women baring her breasts is a signal. To me, not so much.

kuwisdelu · May 17, 2013

Xelebes said:
I'm someone who has been accultured to seeing people naked a lot. To me, it's only sexy when a woman signals. For you, a women baring her breasts is a signal. To me, not so much.

A person doesn't need to "signal" anything for me to find them sexually attractive.

Sure, an erotic or cute pose can accentuate it, but if I find someone sexually attractive, I'd find that person sexually attractive either way.

Alpha Echo · May 17, 2013

Am I the only one here who thinks it's okay for a woman's breasts to be a symbol of sexuality? And also to think that no one should be in public (minus the beach) shirtless?

I don't know. I don't get this desire for sexual neutrality. I get...I get that we need to be aware that there are many kinds of people out there - gays, bis, straights and everything in between. I'm all for knocking down stereotypes like women should cook and men should lift heavy things. Or whatever. All for equal pay. All for boys playing with dolls if they want to regardless of whether they turn out to be gay or straight. Knock down those boundaries.

But why is it so wrong for breasts to signify sexuality? For my husband to become aroused at the sight of my breasts in ANY position (as opposed to what someone upthread said. Trust me, my husband is blatantly honest about everything, regardless of formality or what others may think, and he finds my breasts attractive every single minute of the day) He'd be happy watching me do yoga, vacuum, lift weights, or dance naked.

I guess I don't have a problem with it being legal for a woman to be topless. As I said I don't think anyone should be topless, but whatever.

But why is it everyone's so happy that maybe the world is veering towards breasts having no sexuality at all? Meaning...what gives a woman her sexuality? I mean, I get it. Attitude. Strength. Wisdom. These are all attributes that can make someone sexual to someone else. But what about the physical attributes? I find hard pecks and ripped abs to be hot on a guy. I also love that V-taper when the jeans are riding low...

How is that any different?

AncientEagle · May 17, 2013

Alpha Echo said:
Am I the only one here who thinks it's okay for a woman's breasts to be a symbol of sexuality? And also to think that no one should be in public (minus the beach) shirtless?

I don't know. I don't get this desire for sexual neutrality. I get...I get that we need to be aware that there are many kinds of people out there - gays, bis, straights and everything in between. I'm all for knocking down stereotypes like women should cook and men should lift heavy things. Or whatever. All for equal pay. All for boys playing with dolls if they want to regardless of whether they turn out to be gay or straight. Knock down those boundaries.

But why is it so wrong for breasts to signify sexuality? For my husband to become aroused at the sight of my breasts in ANY position (as opposed to what someone upthread said. Trust me, my husband is blatantly honest about everything, regardless of formality or what others may think, and he finds my breasts attractive every single minute of the day) He'd be happy watching me do yoga, vacuum, lift weights, or dance naked.

I guess I don't have a problem with it being legal for a woman to be topless. As I said I don't think anyone should be topless, but whatever.

But why is it everyone's so happy that maybe the world is veering towards breasts having no sexuality at all? Meaning...what gives a woman her sexuality? I mean, I get it. Attitude. Strength. Wisdom. These are all attributes that can make someone sexual to someone else. But what about the physical attributes? I find hard pecks and ripped abs to be hot on a guy. I also love that V-taper when the jeans are riding low...

How is that any different?

This.

AncientEagle · May 17, 2013

Xelebes said:
I'm someone who has been accultured to seeing people naked a lot. To me, it's only sexy when a woman signals. For you, a women baring her breasts is a signal. To me, not so much.

I did not say a woman baring her breasts is a signal. To me, women's breasts are a female characteristic, whether bare or covered. Female characteristics are attractive to me, as I hope male characteristics are attractive to most women. Nothing more complex than that. So I would hate to be somehow desensitized so that I would no longer find those characteristics pleasantly attractive.

Alpha Echo · May 17, 2013

AncientEagle said:
I did not say a woman baring her breasts is a signal. To me, women's breasts are a female characteristic, whether bare or covered. Female characteristics are attractive to me, as I hope male characteristics are attractive to most women. Nothing more complex than that. So I would hate to be somehow desensitized so that I would no longer find those characteristics pleasantly attractive.

There we go. Much more simplistic than my post...though I have a good...let's just say a bottle of wine may have been new when this evening started and may just be almost empty now.

kuwisdelu · May 17, 2013

Alpha Echo said:
Am I the only one here who thinks it's okay for a woman's breasts to be a symbol of sexuality?

I think women's feet are a symbol of sexuality.

Also their hips and thighs.

Mmm delicious zettai ryouiki.

Just like men's shoulders are a symbol of sexuality.

And also to think that no one should be in public (minus the beach) shirtless?

Unless it's a public health issue, I don't see the problem.

But why is it everyone's so happy that maybe the world is veering towards breasts having no sexuality at all? Meaning...what gives a woman her sexuality? I mean, I get it. Attitude. Strength. Wisdom. These are all attributes that can make someone sexual to someone else. But what about the physical attributes? I find hard pecks and ripped abs to be hot on a guy. I also love that V-taper when the jeans are riding low...

I don't get it either. I'll continue finding breasts and various other body parts sexually attractive whether they're legal to uncover or not.

New York: Topless women in public are not breaking the law

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