What do you demand of a novel?

Maze Runner · Apr 24, 2012

What are deal breakers for you? What kinds of things have to happen immediately for you to read past the first few pages? How far into a book is the author still in danger of losing you? When you finish reading a novel, what kinds of things will determine how you qualify your experience? Just trying to find some commonalities in the reading habits of writers. Please feel free to answer one or more of the above, and also to address any issues I overlooked that you think relevant. Thanks.

Midian · Apr 24, 2012

My only requirement is that it must engage me. I will keep reading so long as I'm engaged. Once invested, I will tolerate a lot but certain things will lose me completely. If a book does not pass my acceptable minimum standard of writing, I'm done. I generally won't get engaged and I'll just start nitpicking at things that would otherwise be overlooked.

I honestly can't stand to read a book that proves how unfair publishing can be. When I go to the bookstore to buy a book, I expect that every book on the shelf should have something about it that proves it should've been published. When I pick up one that defies that, I get pissy as I see a future of endless querying for me and only a hope and a prayer.

Even writing that isn't perfect should still be within a minimum standard.

I read a book a couple years ago that was such a sad excuse for writing I nearly cried thinking about all the talent that got passed over for it. The MC referred to her own eye color constantly. And when she wasn't, someone else was. So I'm fairly certain that it was mentioned in every single chapter. And there were so many repeated words and phrases, stilted dialogue and just overall terrible writing with flat characters. If you cut out all of the repetitive nonsense in it, you would lose 1/3 of the book. I can't believe it got past an editor, never mind getting picked up by an agent and a publisher. Sadly, a NYT bestselling author now. I don't know if the author was a bestseller before this book or after. I'm still trying to figure out how it even managed to get printed. You can bet I'll be querying that agent. Clearly worth his or her weight in gold to sell that crap.

But those are the kinds of things that will make me stop reading. Bad writing.

As for anything else, that's impossible to say. A story has to be good and engaging. There's nothing specific an author could do to lose me. What I like and don't like isn't really a formula that can be broken down.

Mr Flibble · Apr 24, 2012

Great characters

Great story

Some layers.

I'm good to go.

Nonuw · Apr 24, 2012

I think being writers (yes, I mean all of us) we read differently. A part of me is engaged in the story and plot, and the other part is evaluating and critiquing style, voice, pace - and if the writing is sub-par, I immediately lose interest.

Nothing worse than a badly written book in these times of very picky publishers, makes me feel annoyed.

Oh - and what I demand of a book - that it carries me away...

KellyAssauer · Apr 24, 2012

I need really great sentences that just blow me away

but I'm weird like that. =)

Maze Runner · Apr 24, 2012

KellyAssauer said:
I need really great sentences that just blow me away

but I'm weird like that. =)

You mean beautiful prose?

Midian · Apr 24, 2012

Bebop said:
You mean beautiful prose?

Different styles produce different sentences and all can be great but not all are beautiful. It's not about flowery writing, it's about good writing.

KellyAssauer · Apr 24, 2012

Bebop said:
You mean beautiful prose?

Wow. Beauty is so subjective.

I want sentences I've never read before. They can be compact or compound, but they must be concise. No extra words, no wandering purple, just good, solid, interesting, ergonomic, and dynamic sentences. That takes a talented writer, but if I see that in the writing then I'm hooked - and yes - I would consider something like that to be beautiful prose.

Maze Runner · Apr 24, 2012

Midian said:
My only requirement is that it must engage me. I will keep reading so long as I'm engaged. Once invested, I will tolerate a lot but certain things will lose me completely. If a book does not pass my acceptable minimum standard of writing, I'm done. I generally won't get engaged and I'll just start nitpicking at things that would otherwise be overlooked.

I honestly can't stand to read a book that proves how unfair publishing can be. When I go to the bookstore to buy a book, I expect that every book on the shelf should have something about it that proves it should've been published. When I pick up one that defies that, I get pissy as I see a future of endless querying for me and only a hope and a prayer.

Even writing that isn't perfect should still be within a minimum standard.

I read a book a couple years ago that was such a sad excuse for writing I nearly cried thinking about all the talent that got passed over for it. The MC referred to her own eye color constantly. And when she wasn't, someone else was. So I'm fairly certain that it was mentioned in every single chapter. And there were so many repeated words and phrases, stilted dialogue and just overall terrible writing with flat characters. If you cut out all of the repetitive nonsense in it, you would lose 1/3 of the book. I can't believe it got past an editor, never mind getting picked up by an agent and a publisher. Sadly, a NYT bestselling author now. I don't know if the author was a bestseller before this book or after. I'm still trying to figure out how it even managed to get printed. You can bet I'll be querying that agent. Clearly worth his or her weight in gold to sell that crap.

But those are the kinds of things that will make me stop reading. Bad writing.

As for anything else, that's impossible to say. A story has to be good and engaging. There's nothing specific an author could do to lose me. What I like and don't like isn't really a formula that can be broken down.

The bolded is counter intuitive, but I understand. I've just started querying, and actually took a break after the first 15 or so. Just to regroup and open my eyes a little wider. BTW, I read your blog on "That Guy" and the self pub route- made a lot of sense. It seems to be the needle in the haystack syndrome. Though some (John Locke, Amanda Hocking) claim to be selling a ton of books). Maybe it's a momentum thing- once you catch it, you can ride a wave.

Read where one lit agent or another- admitted that the publishing model is broken- but where's the new one to take its place?

Maze Runner · Apr 24, 2012

KellyAssauer said:
Wow. Beauty is so subjective.

I want sentences I've never read before. They can be compact or compound, but they must be concise. No extra words, no wandering purple, just good, solid, interesting, ergonomic, and dynamic sentences. That takes a talented writer, but if I see that in the writing then I'm hooked - and yes - I would consider something like that to be beautiful prose.

I agree. But then, I think Bukowski wrote great prose. Not an ounce of BS in that guy. Then I can read Michael Chabon and think, wow, I have never heard the English Language sound better.

Adam · Apr 24, 2012

Entertain me. The rest is just icing.

Maze Runner · Apr 24, 2012

Just to clarify, Midian, by counter intuitive I meant that your reading a badly written, but successful book should, in a publishing environment that made more sense, be an encouragement to you - if the tail wasn't wagging the dog.

Jamesaritchie · Apr 24, 2012

I just have to find it entertaining. A book I don't find entertaining has no meaning, and worrying about it is a waste of life. Someone else may love it, it's most likely as good as the ones I like, so each to his own.

But for me, all I demand is that I like the first sentence, then the second, until the end.

Midian · Apr 24, 2012

Bebop said:
The bolded is counter intuitive, but I understand.

Quite possibly.

BTW, I read your blog on "That Guy" and the self pub route- made a lot of sense. It seems to be the needle in the haystack syndrome. Though some (John Locke, Amanda Hocking) claim to be selling a ton of books). Maybe it's a momentum thing- once you catch it, you can ride a wave.

Read where one lit agent or another- oh wait, Julie castiglia I think- admitted that the publishing model is broken- but where's the new one to take its place?

Thanks for reading!

There's certainly success to be had but I don't think it's any easier than the trade published route. Many fine writers never make the NYT bestseller list just like most self-publishers won't. I tend to believe that trade publishers will make more money just with an advance, even if they never earn out but hey, there are people out there making some steady meaningful income every month self-publishing.

I think the publishing world will eventually work itself out. It's just a matter of letting it and not bashing each and every thing in the process. Too many people are suffering from extremism, imo. To totally despise one or the other is to limit yourself. I don't think anyone should purposely put themselves in a situation where they'll have to eat their own words. It's one thing to simply be wrong and have to dish out mea culpas, it's a totally different thing to base an opinion on a transition process that isn't even finished yet.

Maze Runner · Apr 24, 2012

Jamesaritchie said:
I just have to find it entertaining. A book I don't find entertaining has no meaning, and worrying about it is a waste of life. Someone else may love it, it's most likely as good as the ones I like, so each to his own.

But for me, all I demand is that I like the first sentence, then the second, until the end.

But is that enough? Maybe it depends on genre. I THINK that what I have is literary fiction, (though it's base on a true story), but is that a judgement call? Or, is it just that it can't be put into any other genre?

Susan Coffin · Apr 24, 2012

I like a novel where I feel engaged. I read to step out of Susan's world for awhile and be entertained.

Richard White · Apr 24, 2012

Entertain me.
Don't bore me.
Don't preach at me.
Don't try to guilt me.
Don't whine.

I'm pretty forgiving and pretty omnivorous when it comes to reading. But if I can guess who your "mystery villain" is by Chapter 3, I'm not likely to read anymore.

If you're trying to make a point, make it subtly and really make me have to stop and think and then go, "Oh, crap, that's neat. I never thought of it that way before." Don't try to beat me over the head with your cause-de-jure.

And for God's sake, no frappin' navel-gazing. If you're going for a literary style, then write about something that makes a point. If you're just going on and on about your life and how it sucks because no one understands you and so on, . . . there's a reason you have no friends. It's because you're a self-absorbed boring person and you don't give anyone a reason to like you.

*pant, pant*

OK, Rant over.

buz · Apr 24, 2012

But is that enough? Maybe it depends on genre. I THINK that what I have is literary fiction, (though it's base on a true story), but is that a judgement call? Or, is it just that it can't be put into any other genre?

Yes, entertainment and engagement are pretty much the main draw of fiction, I'd say. At the very least, they're the main business.

Literary fiction is sort of a blurry term sometimes, from what I hear, but the basic line I see over and over is that literary fiction is more about the characters with the plot happening sort of under the surface, whereas other fiction has the plot as the main thing driving it forward. In both, characters and plot are important, but the balance is different. (And I'm just regurgitating things I've read--I don't actually know any of this firsthand.)

If entertainment and engagement sound like too little to you, think of what those things actually entail: emotional attachment, emotional involvement, intellectual stimulation, making someone feel more alive and giving them happiness. A really good book will have me seriously messed up about it. It will keep me awake without caffeine and I'll be trembling and freaking out and when it's over I'll be seriously depressed. The more involved I am, the worse the emotional fallout. It's like having really long, gradual sex, but the afterglow is replaced with moody emo fucked-up-in-the-head withdrawal. ...Okay, not sex. More like crack. With a comedown.

If I could stick my book in someone's face and have them snort it up and make it do that to them, I'd be the happiest person in the world. (Until I got sick of the high and decided to go put porcupines in my bathroom or something. I'm insatiable.)

triceretops · Apr 24, 2012

More than anything, I appreciate/adore a great voice/style.

BethS · Apr 24, 2012

Bebop said:
What are deal breakers for you?

Poor/amateurish writing. Lack of conflict. Unlikeable characters. Boring situations. Present tense.

What kinds of things have to happen immediately for you to read past the first few pages?

Good writing and the beginnings of an engaging story.

How far into a book is the author still in danger of losing you?

That can depend. I've been known to quit after two sentences or halfway through a book.

When you finish reading a novel, what kinds of things will determine how you qualify your experience?

Would I ever want to read the book again? Only the very best ones get a "yes" to that. Good ones often don't, because while I liked the outcome, I don't necessarily want to repeat the journey.

Beyond that, I like books that engage me both emotionally and intellectually, and that tell a ripping good story. I also love lyrical writing (but not purple prose) and a voice that draws me in.

jjdebenedictis · Apr 24, 2012

I kept statistics on this one year, and generally if I was going to give up on a book, it was by page 10.

With one book (that year), I held on until page 50 because the writing was so good, but nothing was going on with plot and I finally gave up.

I'm a very impatient reader. I do give up on books because of the quality of the writing or finding that I can't stand the protagonist, but I'm most likely to give up simply because nothing that hooks my interest has happened yet.

Until page 10. That's all you get.

Mikael. · Apr 25, 2012

These days, I'll drop a book as soon as it bores me. Can't empathize with the protagonist? CBA reading it. I don't look for the meaning of life in books, I look for something that will make me: laugh, cry or bite my nails, preferably all three.

heyjude · Apr 25, 2012

I read to be entertained. I'm perfectly willing to pitch a book at any time during if it stops being entertaining. I dislike religious bashing, animals (and to some extent kids) in peril, annnd what else? --that's about it, I think, those are the immediate things that will make me throw a book, other than being bored.

Oh, and omni. I have a hard time with this POV, esp. if the voice is distant, like I can't quite latch onto a character to root for.

If the ending is so ambiguous as to be WTFish, I won't read anything else by that author.

Barbara R. · Apr 25, 2012

[FONT=&quot]Good question, Bebop, and one I've thought about a lot, since I evaluate many novel openings each year. Every novel begins, I believe, with a tacit contract between writer and reader. The writer asks for the reader’s time and attention, and lays out what he/she offers in return: a story set in a particular time and place, told in a particular voice from a particular POV, peopled by a main character worth reading about. This character is faced a big problem or quest that is either implied or shown early on. The advent of that problem gives the novel a starting point; its resolution provides an end. In addition, openings need to be tense, because tension is what compels readers to keep turning the pages; and they need to be written in a voice and a style that engage me as a reader.

When I read for my own pleasure, it doesn't take more than a page or two for me to decide whether or not to continue. Not everything shows up that quickly---structural problems obviously take longer to surface---but a couple of pages are enough to determine if a writer's style engages me.
[/FONT]

Barbara R. · Apr 25, 2012

BethS said:
Poor/amateurish writing. Lack of conflict. Unlikeable characters. Boring situations. Present tense..

Present tense, in that list?! I protest, on behalf of those of us who can't (on occasion) help ourselves, and on behalf of those books that demand to be in present tense.

A cut all the more egregious since the rest of your list is spot on.

What do you demand of a novel?

My sarcasm got the better of me.

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