Any beta who gives a 'flaming crit' or rips a piece apart has no business being a beta. The whole purpose of being a beta is to give constructive criticism. That means honesty, not nastiness.
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What do writers want from beta-readers?
- Thread starter Samantha's_Song
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True. But I want someone who has the integrity to call it as they honestly see it. If my MS wasted their time, and I hope it wouldn't, I can understand if they call me out on it
Obviously - that's where the honesty comes in. But they don't have to be nasty to do so.
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THIS^
The best and worst thing to happen to me was a critical brutally honest critique. It stung like hell at first. My first reaction was "This person is full of crap". My second was "I suck! I quit!".
After a day of stewing, I went back and really looked at what was said. It was 100 percent right. I have been busting my ass ever since to fix it. It was the best thing that could have happened.
I beta read often, it helps me with my own writing. I am not an expert or a published writer but I do know when there is a problem. I like to think I am kind and deliver my comments with tack and professionalism. But I also don't mince words. I have done several beta's here at AW. A few had major issues and some were close to perfect. In my opinion.
I made comments as a reader on the shiny ones and pointed out the troubles in the not so shiny. All except one was very grateful. I always ask what they want from me before I begin. If they say hit me, I do.
I haven't asked for a beta. Yet. But I am getting ready to do that. Should someone be kind enough to volunteer their time,this is what I want:
Go IN on my MS,chapters,or whatever I submit to you. I ain't sensitive, ya feel me? I am not the type of writer who snivels over a brutal critique. Tell the truth and shame the devil,k? There is a clear difference between being nasty for no reason and someone that is just brutally honest.
I want a Beta who tells the raw truth. I want someone who goes over what I submit with a laser-like focus and tells me what needs work.I need someone that likes and reads my genres. No pussyfooting about with the critiques whatsoever. I don't see the point in having someone read my work and they just gush about everything. That isn't for me. Constructive criticism can help immensely and that is what I desire from a Beta reader.
Go IN on my MS,chapters,or whatever I submit to you. I ain't sensitive, ya feel me? I am not the type of writer who snivels over a brutal critique. Tell the truth and shame the devil,k? There is a clear difference between being nasty for no reason and someone that is just brutally honest.
I want a Beta who tells the raw truth. I want someone who goes over what I submit with a laser-like focus and tells me what needs work.I need someone that likes and reads my genres. No pussyfooting about with the critiques whatsoever. I don't see the point in having someone read my work and they just gush about everything. That isn't for me. Constructive criticism can help immensely and that is what I desire from a Beta reader.
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LMiller and True believer - 
If I wanted to rip something apart, just for the sake of doing so, I would read an already published book like the classics Lolita and Jane Eyre, which I have done over the last few months.
Jealousy of someone's work I've beta read has never happened, never. Yes, I've beta read absolutely brilliant stories that i wish I could write in the same vein, like our own Ian Ayris' Abide with me, or The Bookseller, by another young man on here. I loved their stories, just ask them what kind of beta reviews i gave their works.
If I wanted to rip something apart, just for the sake of doing so, I would read an already published book like the classics Lolita and Jane Eyre, which I have done over the last few months. Jealousy of someone's work I've beta read has never happened, never. Yes, I've beta read absolutely brilliant stories that i wish I could write in the same vein, like our own Ian Ayris' Abide with me, or The Bookseller, by another young man on here. I loved their stories, just ask them what kind of beta reviews i gave their works.
The problem is to find a beta who can articulate how to make the book better. They can be as rude as they want as long as they improve the book.
I, as a rather rude beta reader sometimes, make that my sole aim. I want my writers to make the very best out of their works, that's why I invest my time reading and commenting in the first place.
Making improving the book your sole aim is one thing, but being able to articulate HOW is something else entirely. If you can articulate it, then you are a very valuable beta indeed.
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I can also be a tough beta reader. I have on several occasions unleashed my opinions on what would make the story better. A friend asked me to read for her. Her MC spent two chapters feeling her way through a forest to get to the castle and nothing dazzling happened. It was painful. I gave her a bag of idea's to make it rock. I don't think I was rude about it. I tend to serve criticism with a little chocolate.
If I see it, I say it. If your just looking for a fluff read, I would not be your girl. Beta reading is hard work.
I'm always looking for honesty, and someone who can give me their opinions while remembering that it is still MY work and my style may be different than theirs. For my last novel, I had three AMAZING beta readers. One of them preferred discussing grammar issues, one preferred character development and lags, and the last the flow of the story. Of course, this is every writer's dream team. I just want to know what my readers are thinking when they read my work.
<3 Gina Blechman
<3 Gina Blechman
I've had my mother, sister, and friends read my finished MS and all I got from each of them was "I love it!" Now, some writers may be satisfied with this: I was not.
I KNOW there's issues with it; but I also know I'm too close to it to see many of them.
So will somebody just tell me what the EFF I need to fix?!?!?!
That's what I want in a Beta.
*Stomps off to SYW*
I KNOW there's issues with it; but I also know I'm too close to it to see many of them.
So will somebody just tell me what the EFF I need to fix?!?!?!
That's what I want in a Beta.
*Stomps off to SYW*
Re: Shadowwalker and Bluntforcetrauma's very civil settlement on terms. Both have excellent points.
I appreciate candid opinions specific to my work-in-progress--even rude ones.
What I can't understand (literally) is the vindictive, small mind hiding behind a user name, who resorts to sarcasm and trivial invention to get even for some imagined slight.
For me, that's when constructive criticism goes south. All others contain varying quantities of gold.
I appreciate candid opinions specific to my work-in-progress--even rude ones.
What I can't understand (literally) is the vindictive, small mind hiding behind a user name, who resorts to sarcasm and trivial invention to get even for some imagined slight.
For me, that's when constructive criticism goes south. All others contain varying quantities of gold.
I have had very good experience with critiquers for the most part. I don't like it when people flatter me, but I have appreciated when people told me what I was doing right. I appreciate honesty and pointing out what's not working, but advice on how to fix has been mixed for me. Sometimes a critters' fix for your work is not how you would do it. But I like knowing that there's something I need to fix.
I don't have problem with critiques.
I do have problem with beta readers who can't follow directions. The beta phase for me is a first draft thing. I want to know whether the plot is heading in the right direction, whether the characters are appealing, whether elements of the world building are confusing or misleading.
I can't stand beta readers who think they are my editor. I have three editors at my pub, thank you. There's no point to your treatise on the virtues of the Oxford comma since the chapter containing that sentence may not survive the second draft.
If there's a mistake that's so repetitive you feel like you have to say something ... okay say something about it. If there's something in my wording that is confusing or just pulls you out of the story, yes you should point it out. But during the first draft I really do not give the slightest **** that I typed 'to' instead of 'too'. It's irrelevant, and in my mind there's nothing worse than sending a story to a beta and getting back pages of copy-editor style corrections with no actual beta reading feedback >.>
end rant .... *cough*..... *hides*
I do have problem with beta readers who can't follow directions. The beta phase for me is a first draft thing. I want to know whether the plot is heading in the right direction, whether the characters are appealing, whether elements of the world building are confusing or misleading.
I can't stand beta readers who think they are my editor. I have three editors at my pub, thank you. There's no point to your treatise on the virtues of the Oxford comma since the chapter containing that sentence may not survive the second draft.
If there's a mistake that's so repetitive you feel like you have to say something ... okay say something about it. If there's something in my wording that is confusing or just pulls you out of the story, yes you should point it out. But during the first draft I really do not give the slightest **** that I typed 'to' instead of 'too'. It's irrelevant, and in my mind there's nothing worse than sending a story to a beta and getting back pages of copy-editor style corrections with no actual beta reading feedback >.>
end rant .... *cough*..... *hides*
I'm mentioned in the acknowledgements of another AWer's novel that's coming out in March, I think that says something about my value as a beta reader. Actually, I am chuffed to bits (overwhelmed) that anyone would even think I was worth that much.
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That's what I feel too, wanting to see more than a couple of thou words, I mean.
It's often so difficult to tell if something has actually been forgotten or if it's being deliberately held back, and it's so hard to tell if the writer has the whole story written or hasn't got past the first idea, with only 2,000 words, you can't tell, with a whole novel/novela you see the whole thing.
That's exactly what I think of in a critiquer, and that's how I do critiques.
If I think something doesn't work, I say so.
If I can do so, I say why it doesn't work.
If I can do so, I'll suggest some alternatives.
And for goodness sake, if something works, please say so. (Because otherwise by then the poor author is probably suicidal!)
After all people do need to know what is working as well as what isn't.
Which is why I try to balance positive comments with negative ones. Because if you don't then the author will probably get the idea that all their work is rubbish.
I would hope for as much from a critiquer of my work.
But I'm not sure about this brutal honesty stuff. Honesty is fine, but lets keep brutality out of it.
I guess I critique others as I would like to be critiqued.
Seems only fair.
I would want pure honesty. If there is something the reader didn't like about my story, i would want to know why.
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I'm mentioned in the acknowledgements of another AWer's novel that's coming out in March, I think that says something about my value as a beta reader. Actually, I am chuffed to bits (overwhelmed) that anyone would even think I was worth that much.
You sound like the ideal beta reader! Wish I could get someone like you to read my work! I'm having trouble finding someone who will give me an honest, unbiassed critique. The three or four friends and family I've given my first novel to "beta read" have been totally useless: all they said was that they loved it! My husband, on the contrary, tends to re-write the whole thing. It's very discouraging.
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Some time back, I beta-read a chapter of a novel about Cold War intelligence operations in Germany. I ended up making some revisions to the chapter and Lee McCaslin, the author, gave me credit for it.
Check out Secrets of the Cold War @ http://www.amazon.com/dp/1906033919/?tag=absowrit-20
Check out Secrets of the Cold War @ http://www.amazon.com/dp/1906033919/?tag=absowrit-20
Beta vs Mentor
I wasn't sure what you were referring to as a beta reader before I read the posts here so I guess, since I have been multi published and produced, I am both a beta reader and a mentor. And yes, teaching, reading other works, helps me sometimes see what is wrong with mine. But since I'm new here, I don't know where to let people know that I'm available. So here I am. Serita
I wasn't sure what you were referring to as a beta reader before I read the posts here so I guess, since I have been multi published and produced, I am both a beta reader and a mentor. And yes, teaching, reading other works, helps me sometimes see what is wrong with mine. But since I'm new here, I don't know where to let people know that I'm available. So here I am. Serita
I think, as a BETA reader, you're always going to come across those few who are only looking for validation. It's what we all want, but not what we need. Others might seek a BETA reader to have their worked "fixed", so to speak. They don't like taking the time to edit and so depend on someone else. Neither are ideal, but they happen...
If you want to know what a writer wants from you, it's best to ask. Some people don't want heavy edits but just want advice on voice, plot, flow, etc. Others want their BETA reader to focus on sentence structure, typos, and other grammatical errors. And others want the whole package. Really, it depends on the person.
If you want to know what a writer wants from you, it's best to ask. Some people don't want heavy edits but just want advice on voice, plot, flow, etc. Others want their BETA reader to focus on sentence structure, typos, and other grammatical errors. And others want the whole package. Really, it depends on the person.
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Samantha..it was great of you to put that out there. As a writer and not a beta, I'd say one has to put their ego away. That's why you asked for an opinion. You don't get to ask for one then get offended because someone had the stones to actually give you one! You can thrash my novel anytime sister!
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