I Knew Rock-Bottom Would Hurt...

MorganMarshall · Nov 6, 2012

... I just didn't know how bad.

Rejected. By an agent who liked my story and gave me revision ideas and encouraged me... (I know this is not a new phenomenon, but it is for me).

I got a writer referral for this one. That's the ONLY way I even got close to being accepted. I don't know if I will ever get this close again, as my queries are always rejected anyway.

Ugh. I need a drink.

randi.lee · Nov 6, 2012

Hey, now. The old addage "I think I can" is a wise one. Give up the belief that you're going to get picked up and that's it: you've really no chance of being picked up.

But taking what you've received and learning from it, that can open a myriad of doors for you.

Don't give up! The fit is out there for you. Maybe revisions are in order. Do them. Make them count by moving forward, continuing to submit and by getting picked up because you never stopped trying!

Good luck!

Maryn · Nov 6, 2012

[Maryn pours with a generous hand.] Dish of peanuts?

Maryn, been there

Johncs · Nov 6, 2012

Nothing stings quite like "almost."

some drinking music?

The impossible dream- man of La Mancha

MorganMarshall · Nov 6, 2012

Thanks guys. Drinking music is ALWAYS good.

As for revisions, I've done them. SOOO many of them. Over the course of three years. It's beginning to feel ridiculous at this point. Oi.

Meems · Nov 6, 2012

Yeah, those are the toughest rejections. When I was starting out, I was sure that if an agent requested a full, it was only a matter of time before the phone rang with an offer. But I was cured of that real quick.

There's nothing to do about the hurt. There are going to be a whole lot of times where you're going to feel hurt, even after you get an agent, just because that is the nature of the beast. But give yourself some time and then get back on that horse.

A writer felt confident enough in your abilities to give you a referral, and an agent felt enthusiastic enough about it to give you feedback and work with you, even if it didn't lead to an offer. I know it doesn't seem like much now, but you should see it as proof your talent and potential.

Further, I've been where you are now, and felt like I was going to get the offer, and didn't, and felt horrible; but let me tell you, I realize now how lucky I was not to get it.

Just don't give up. Take hold of the despair and use it. And remember that this was just one bump on the long road.

Beckstah · Nov 6, 2012

I've been there too, Morgan. I was there two weeks ago, actually. Be kind to yourself today. Hopefully those revision ideas will shake out with someone new.

MorganMarshall · Nov 6, 2012

Thank you all. I'm eating shrimp and chocolate, and trying to decide if I should try again (for the millionth time), or just self-publish.

Calla Lily · Nov 6, 2012

Been there too. Sympathies.

Lady MacBeth · Nov 7, 2012

Been there! Enjoy that drink.

Jamesaritchie · Nov 8, 2012

Write at least a novel per year. Self-publishing is the easy way out, and almost always just another way of saying I Quit.

Lack of talent is not what kills most writers. Lack of output does. For most of us, writing is much like painting. Would you expect your first painting to be good enough to hang in a museum? What about your second, your third, or your fourth?

Sometimes first novels do sell, but this is the rare exception, not the norm. Like painting, or pretty much anything else, most of us have to turn out a lot of novels before selling one.

Most new writers I know make the mistake of spending waaaayyyy too much time on a first novel. Too much time writing it, too much time rewriting and editing it, and too much time tinkering with it between rejections.

Skill grows as new projects are written, not by spending time on old projects.

Phaeal · Nov 8, 2012

Rock-bottom is when you've run out of agents to query and can't afford postage to agents over on the next inhabited planet.

No, wait. Rock-bottom is when (the above) plus you've stopped writing your next novel.

You've had a hard fall, so shrimp and chocolate are in order. When you can't eat anymore, you know what to do next.

blacbird · Nov 9, 2012

Rearrange the rocks to a more comfortable configuration.

caw

Bloo · Nov 9, 2012

keep writing, don't stop querying, move on to the next project. I was facing a pile of rejections on my first play and was considering SP and selling off a (at that time) non existent website. Then I got a phone call...

But during that time, I kept writing, winning awards, seeing my second play produced. It'll happen, just keep working on one. Maybe put this one off to the side for a little bit, work on another project and then go back (that's what Stephen King recommends).

Its a little easier for me as a playwright to say this because my ultimate goal isn't publication but production, but don't stop, keep at it.

MorganMarshall · Nov 9, 2012

Jamesaritchie said:
Sometimes first novels do sell, but this is the rare exception, not the norm. Like painting, or pretty much anything else, most of us have to turn out a lot of novels before selling one.

Most new writers I know make the mistake of spending waaaayyyy too much time on a first novel.

Well... at the risk of sounding argumentative, this is actually my fifth novel...

Sorry! *Dodges tomatoes*

Maybe put this one off to the side for a little bit, work on another project and then go back (that's what Stephen King recommends).

I know. I'm a very obsessive person, so working on a different novel would be almost painful, since my mind is still SOOOO on this one, and has been for so long. That said, again, I know... I just have to try and focus on something else.

It's like having to let go of a dream. If even for a little while, that excitement of hearing back and wondering if THIS is the one, is suddenly gone, so that you don't have that new hope to wake up to every day anymore. It's not easy to bounce back from that.

Of course, everyone here knows that.

Rearrange the rocks to a more comfortable configuration.

I AM considering getting a wood stove insert for my library...

Rock-bottom is when you've run out of agents to query and can't afford postage to agents over on the next inhabited planet.

No, wait. Rock-bottom is when (the above) plus you've stopped writing your next novel.

Now, if I can figure out how to work on my next novel AND my thesis at the same time...

MsJudy · Nov 10, 2012

MorganMarshall said:
Well... at the risk of sounding argumentative, this is actually my fifth novel...

Sorry! *Dodges tomatoes*

This. This is where you're getting yourself into problems.

James A. Ritchie has been on AW since like The Olden Days. He gives good advice. He has very strong opinions, and not everybody always agrees with him, but I have never, EVER seen him "throw tomatoes" at anyone. Or even waste his time arguing or getting personal.

His advice was spot-on. And of course it isn't easy advice to follow. But your reaction to him makes you look immature. It doesn't matter if this is your first novel, fifth novel, or two hundredth novel. His point is still valid: Don't get stuck on any one project. Always keep moving forward.

Sheryl Nantus · Nov 10, 2012

MorganMarshall said:
Well... at the risk of sounding argumentative, this is actually my fifth novel...

Then you move onto your sixth or seventh or whatever...

Many authors don't sell their first works. Many trunk them and they never see the light of day because by the time they sell their XXth book it's SO much better than the first one that it'd be crazy to bring it out again.

Maybe it'll be your sixth that sells. Or your tenth.

Don't get so focused on selling your first that you go blind to the fact that it may just not be that good and your newer books are THAT much better.

MorganMarshall · Nov 10, 2012

MsJudy said:
This. This is where you're getting yourself into problems.

James A. Ritchie has been on AW since like The Olden Days. He gives good advice. He has very strong opinions, and not everybody always agrees with him, but I have never, EVER seen him "throw tomatoes" at anyone. Or even waste his time arguing or getting personal.

His advice was spot-on. And of course it isn't easy advice to follow. But your reaction to him makes you look immature. It doesn't matter if this is your first novel, fifth novel, or two hundredth novel. His point is still valid: Don't get stuck on any one project. Always keep moving forward.

See... this was a joke. I had no intention of assuming he would actually throw tomatoes. Why would anyone take that seriously?

Then you move onto your sixth or seventh or whatever...

Many authors don't sell their first works. Many trunk them and they never see the light of day because by the time they sell their XXth book it's SO much better than the first one that it'd be crazy to bring it out again.

Maybe it'll be your sixth that sells. Or your tenth.

Don't get so focused on selling your first that you go blind to the fact that it may just not be that good and your newer books are THAT much better.

Thank you for that advice.

I just realized, when I get advice that works for me, I can't think of anything to say besides thank you because it's just perfect already. But when I read a misunderstanding (like that this was my first book), I feel it is rude not to fix the misunderstanding...

ARoyce · Nov 10, 2012

Do you work with a critique group?

Have you taken writing classes?

Have you tried the Share Your Work area here at AW?

I completely understand that rejection can be demoralizing. At the same time, over the course of dive novels, I'm sort of wondering how you're working to improve your writing. Continuing to write novel after novel (or revision after revision) only works if the writer is learning from his/her weaknesses.

If you're already doing all these things, just ignore this post. But if you haven't sought feedback from other people in the publishing industry or other active writers working toward publication, then maybe it's a step you should consider. You might also try Query Letter Hell here at AW...if you haven't gotten any nibbles from queries, maybe your query needs work.

I know writers who don't share their work until it's published, but we mortals (

) can usually use some constructive criticism along the way.

Best of luck!

MorganMarshall · Nov 10, 2012

Thank you, ARoyce. I'm jumping right back in!

Dragonfly45 · Nov 10, 2012

Hugs to you. Been there, done that. The others give good advice- don't give up! I will also add, in regard to revisions, that it's true writers benefit so much from critique. That said, always make sure YOU believe the revisions before you revise for just anyone (not saying you revised for "just anyone," but I'm just issuing this as a friendly reminder since I was once in a bad place of "I'd change anything in my book if you'll just publish it, damn it!"). If the suggestions don't resonate and make you feel it'll be a better book in the end no matter what, don't spend a lifetime on it.

Keep truckin'. You can do it.

simplifye · Nov 14, 2012

MorganMarshall said:
Thank you all. I'm eating shrimp and chocolate, and trying to decide if I should try again (for the millionth time), or just self-publish.

Caveat: I am no expert...

Now that's done,..

I have been writing a long time, and only now, at my mature age, do I have a work that I feel is ready to disclose to the public.

Like most writers, I felt that I didn't want to consider self-publication... or worse, that dreaded term, vanity publication. That's for all those who couldn't make the cut, right? Well, I would just say, that's all in how you choose to look at it.

I shopped my novel around to agents, as I saw that as the first step to traditional publication. How many inquiries? 30 only - I say "only" because I realize that many authors stick in there until they are well past 100 submissions. Or maybe more. I respect that.

But here's my thinking: I could continue on that track, and put the bulk of my time and resources into courting the establishment, or, I could decide to self-publish and move on.

I chose the latter, because I feel that this opportunity is a watershed moment, uniquely linked to our present time. Due to technology (the internet, multi-platform ebook devices, etc), authors can choose to forgo the establishment, and - if they are multi-talented and driven, succeed without that said "establishment."

Why not sef-publish? Why not put your work out there if you feel it's the best it can be, and it stands on its own? Why not collect all the royalties yourself, instead of giving it to publishing houses who give less and less attention and support to their authors as time goes by? If your work is good, and you give your all to promoting that work as best you can, then it will succeed because readers will recognize its value. That's just my opinion, for what it's worth...

kaitie · Nov 14, 2012

Just to clarify: an author doesn't "give away" royalties. Publishers provide multi-step editing that is expensive, cover artists, formatters for all different formats, marketing, promotion, distribution, and so on. All of those things cost money, and all of those things bring in more sales than you are likely to ever get on your own.

I'm tired of the talk as if publishers are just greedy bastards unfairly stealing money from writers' pockets. The things they provide cost money, and honestly I don't see a problem with sharing profits with the people who helped make the final product.

I'd also like to say that having a good book doesn't guarantee sales in self-publishing. I've seen people with good books getting a handful of sales. Anyone going into this needs to go into it with eyes open. It's not likely to result in very many sales, certainly not as many as one would typically get going through a publisher (though some people certainly do well). It's not likely to make much money. If you're aware of that and okay with it, then it's fine and if you do get to be one of the lucky (and it is luck because no one can figure out how some take off and others don't) few who do better, it's all just icing on the cake.

And if you want your book to be commercially published, don't self-publish just because you didn't sell it yet. That's arguably one of the worst reasons to self-publish.

mccardey · Nov 14, 2012

kaitie said:
I'm tired of the talk as if publishers are just greedy bastards unfairly stealing money from writers' pockets.
.

Yes, this. Nicely put.

MorganMarshall · Nov 14, 2012

I feel that trade publishers offer a LOT in the way of services, which is why I am so bent on going that route with "Guts and Glory".

See, my epic fantasy is not nearly as marketable as my scifi, and I know it, so I haven't even tried to query for it. Plus, I wrote it for my children so if anyone else reads and likes it, well that's just icing for me. But with "Guts and Glory" it's different. This is the very best story I have ever written, and I have worked so hard to get it right. Heck, I'm STILL working on it, though I can finally see the light at the end of the tunnel. This is after more people than I can count have helped me with line edits (of the whole manuscript even), critiquing, roundtable workshopping, professional crits at conferences, SCBWI writer's group crits and edits, posting parts of it here and getting advice, and one revise and return that was ultimately rejected, but gave me more valuable, professional and industry insight that helped skyrocket its quality even more. Three years of hard work by many more people than myself alone has made my WIP what it is today. I want it to have the very best chance at success for not only my sake, but the sake of all who have helped me to this point, and for the sake of my future readers. Some people can self-publish and do very well, yes, but I know for a fact that I'm not one of them. I couldn't sell water to a man dying of thirst (I'd just give it to him of course), and I can't sell my own books.

More editing. Sales and marketing. Promotion. Rights and legalities and... Oi. I just want to write. I'll gladly let a publisher be paid part of the royalties we have all worked towards for providing those services and more... and letting me just keep writing.

Now... I just need to get them to agree.

I Knew Rock-Bottom Would Hurt...

I keep my head firmly in the clouds

Certified Non-Genius

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Zen-ish

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On hiatus

Out, damn'd spot! out, I say.

Whatever I did, I didn't do it.

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Purveyor of the Sparkly

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