Learn Writing with Uncle Jim, Volume 1

Okay, to thrash another post from another thread.

The thread is: Five irrefutable reasons you need to outline your story before you write it.

(If you're interested in knowing those five irrefutable reasons, they're:

1) Because I said so,
2) Because I said so,
3) Because I said so,
4) Because I said so, and
5) Because I said so.)

Be that as it may. The OP says:

I say this is an insane way to write a book. Why? Because you can develop the story, or at least 95 % of it, BEFORE you write a draft. You can engage in the very same wonderful creative exploration process without spending two months of your life writing a draft. When you become an architect of your story in the form of a blueprint, or a sequential outline and a list of checklist-driven components -- imagine a builder arriving at a job site with the intention of "just start building" with the hope of coming up with a functional design after several tries... even King and Deaver would think this is nuts... -- it all goes faster, it's smoother, it's clearer, and it takes a fraction of the time. And what you end up with is orders of magnitude BETTER than if you just winged it.

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Where he goes badly wrong is this:

The novel on the bookstore shelves is not analogous to a finished building ready for occupancy. The novel on the bookstores shelves is the blueprint for the work of art that the reader will construct in his or her head.

Do you know how the architect arrived at the blueprints he's holding the day construction starts?

You do not.

Maybe the architect drew dozens (or hundreds) of sketches. Maybe he built a model. Maybe she fired up the CAD program. Maybe he figured out where the plumbing was going to run and planned outward from that. Maybe she looked at the landscape, considered contrasting siding materials, then worked inward to what kind of structure would be needed to support them. Maybe it came to him in a dream. Maybe the architect spent a week on the plans. Maybe the architect spent a year on them.

You don't know. You don't care. And it doesn't matter what the process was.

At some point in the process you're just going to have to wing it. Even if you're the most detail-oriented obsessive-compulsive in the world and you plan the plan to make your plans ... at some level you're just going to have to make stuff up.

Either that or find a job outside of the creative arts.

Uncle Jim wrote, Do you know how the architect arrived at the blueprints he's holding the day construction starts?

Actually, I kinda' do having been involved in the process quite a few time, but your analogy is well-taken (and I'm using your index card routine for GATED and finding it is vastly, I mean VASTLY, improving where I am and where I'm going with this book) - the writing's better, the plotting is infinitely better, and the characters are so improved over anything I've ever done before it's just ridiculous. I sit down at the keyboard and pull up the document, check my outline t see where I'm going and I'm off to the races.

James D. Macdonald said:

At some point in the process you're just going to have to wing it. Even if you're the most detail-oriented obsessive-compulsive in the world and you plan the plan to make your plans ... at some level you're just going to have to make stuff up.

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I agree totally. No argument from me. I work from an outline and make stuff up all day, every day as I write.

I wing it because I like to surprise myself as ideas and tangents come to me with prior knowledge of what's been written previous to the point I am in the story. I have a vague idea of things that will happen in the begining the middle and the end. Most if not all the time these idea evolve and change, because of what I've already written.

The only exception to this is my story idea, which doesn't change.

As in the current WIP. Three orphans escape from an oppressive orphanage and find themselves in a broken down magic amusement park.

That is enough info for me to start writing.

First, cause enough problems for the orphans to want to or have to leave the orphanage.

Second, fear of recapture and problems in flight from same.

Third, A twist in the escape that is unpredictable and puts them in a worse spot.

Fourth, more running and problems and trouble and the need to form a plan to get back to square one, save themselves and others because it's good and right, with having achieved some great service or action in a manner that paints them in a great light as seen by the other characters and the reader.

Whew! I hope that all make sense. It does to me.

The moral. Do what works for you. There is no right and wrong, only write.
I like to wing it, I'm not limited by anything but my imagination.

James D. Macdonald said:

The thread is: Five irrefutable reasons you need to outline your story before you write it.

(If you're interested in knowing those five irrefutable reasons, they're:

1) Because I said so,
2) Because I said so,
3) Because I said so,
4) Because I said so, and
5) Because I said so.)

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*sigh* I wish I had started with an outline. However, I just felt like writing and as I wrote, the main character went off and did a bunch of unexpected things which delighted me so I kept writing.

Problem is, the MC eventually became stagnant and I found myself forced to get her from point A to point B where I thought more fun stuff could happen. And again from point B to point C where even more fun stuff could happen.

As I re-read my manuscript, it became very apparent that the plot doesn't make sense. So now, I'm working on the outline. Then, I'll go back and fix the novel. *sigh*

Thanks Uncle Jim for your words of wisdom. I just wish I'd paid attention sooner...

I balk at "outline" (choke, gag, ugh-- leftover from junior high probably) but I can do synopses until forever. So I make my synopsis my outline.

Ruth2 said:

I balk at "outline" (choke, gag, ugh-- leftover from junior high probably) but I can do synopses until forever. So I make my synopsis my outline.

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You shouldn't make your outline for your novel be one of those insane Roman Numeral things.


Or, you could. If that's what works for you.

An outline is a tool, not a pair of handcuffs.

An outline can be in prose English at novel length and divided into chapters if that's what works for you.

James D. Macdonald said:

An outline can be in prose English at novel length and divided into chapters if that's what works for you.

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That's secrete code for, wing it.

Crepuscular would be a good book title.

I've done one of those prose things as an outline. Saved my bacon too when I got sick and couldn't write for three years. Talk about putting your work aside to get a fresh look-- eek! But with the synopsis I picked right back up where I left off. Sweet....

Uncle Jim, That insane Roman numeral thing was the way I was taught to outline and it kept me cuffed for years (decades really). It's so darned rigid and unforgiving, but it's what was required in college (and even high school).

The index card method and even the chapter rough notes method is much more liberating and flexible.

My muse and I write the outline. The outline to me is the plot driven story. The actual writing makes it character driven.

I don't know what the characters will say or what they will do precisely that will trigger the events in the outline. I've planned several times that character A will do one thing for such and such to happen. Then they'll say or do something that will cause a different character to do what I had planned in midtype. I didn't intentionally make it happen. It flowed that way. But if it hadn't had been for the outline I would have lost track of that particular plot.

Uncle Jim, quick question here.

Ways back you mentioned that Courier was the best font to use. I've switched everything from Times New Roman to Courier and I like it a lot. It is very easy to read on my eyes, especially after being on the computer all night.

My question is thus...

I've been reading the 2009 version of Writer's Market and it states to use TNR. Have things changed since you made those earlier posts? Or should I go with the flow and just double check what the agent/publisher lists as their desired font?

Or should I go with the flow and just double check what the agent/publisher lists as their desired font?

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The guidelines for the market always take precedence.

Meanwhile, if not stated, while Times New Roman may be acceptable, Courier is acceptable.

FOTSGreg said:

Uncle Jim, That insane Roman numeral thing was the way I was taught to outline and it kept me cuffed for years (decades really). It's so darned rigid and unforgiving, but it's what was required in college (and even high school).

The index card method and even the chapter rough notes method is much more liberating and flexible.

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Some try to put creativity into a formula, and thereby squelch it. I learned a great deal in college. But I also learned that much of what I learned was not practical, and that some of the teachers were theorists who'd never had to make things work in the real world. Because of that they had a certain rigidity and some took self-importance to an absurd level.

It's interesting when we poll published writers, they're split in terms of outline vs. no outline. Of course, my origional draft may not come from an outline- but it in fact is an outline, because none of the origional draft exists within the story. Maybe I'd have had more success if I used an outline. But for me it's late in the game to go back.

I do not recommend my methods, I want to say that first. I don't outline, or plot. I get an idea, and start writing. Somwhere in the beginning I decide if it's a short story or a novel-length piece. If during the writing I see parts from later in the story, I jot them down in a notebook. My first novel ended up a 53,000 word outline, telling the complete story, and giving me a good first draft to work from. The novel I'm working on now will probably end up the same way. So, that's what I do, and for me, it's the right way. I tried some outlining and plotting in the beginning, but realized that (maybe due to my stubbornness and need to rock the boat) as soon as I decided the path any part of the story would take and plotted it or outlined it, I would immediately change it. Of course, that still happens in the "first-draft-as-outline" method, sometimes.

Here's a question that really doesn't have to do with writing novels, but it does in a sideways kind of way. Does being a writer, and studying books as you read them, ever take some of the enjoyment out of reading? When I read a book for the first time I try to turn off the writer in me, and just focus on the pleasure of reading. But sometimes I find myself analyzing the prose so much that I have to go back and re-read sections because I don't remember the actual plot, point, dialogue, etc...

Maybe it's just me.

I usually work with an outline. For my latest WIP I didn't and while things worked well for the first half, I came to a grinding halt when my MC looked up at me and was like "what now". I thus outlined the last half of the novel and instead of being stuck in writer's block hell" for a while I can now proceed.

BUT, I do not believe you always have to outline. Some projects will require it more than others. I really enjoyed allowing my MC to take over, but in the end during the rewrites I will have a lot more restructuring than if I did outline.

@smsarber-- Only if the writing is clunky do I have a problem. Otherwise I get right in the "dream" and enjoy myself

Here's a question that really doesn't have to do with writing novels, but it does in a sideways kind of way. Does being a writer, and studying books as you read them, ever take some of the enjoyment out of reading? When I read a book for the first time I try to turn off the writer in me, and just focus on the pleasure of reading. But sometimes I find myself analyzing the prose so much that I have to go back and re-read sections because I don't remember the actual plot, point, dialogue, etc...

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I try not to look at the fine points of prose, and instead focus on the more overarching issues of plot, character and their interactions. And reading with a writer's mind has actually IMPROVED my enjoyment of stories I read. I always feel a kind of awe when a writer pulls off what I thought was impossible.

What I first thought was the first draft for my book Hatchings turned out to be the outline at 65k. Seven rewrites later it sat at 80k.

For some novelists an outline can apparently benearly as large as the book itself and I've heard of outlines that were 50k or more and authors who regularly outline at that level.

smsarber said:

My first novel ended up a 53,000 word outline, telling the complete story, and giving me a good first draft to work from.

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I spent many months working on characters and events, researching the major elements I thought I needed. Then in November I kept up with NaNoWriMo, and dumped over 50,000 words onto paper, with scenes written in whichever order they came to me. I've read it over once and taken notes, but now I'm working on the real first draft Which I'm calling the second draft, to impress my friends.

--Milton

smsarber said:

Here's a question that really doesn't have to do with writing novels, but it does in a sideways kind of way. Does being a writer, and studying books as you read them, ever take some of the enjoyment out of reading? When I read a book for the first time I try to turn off the writer in me, and just focus on the pleasure of reading. But sometimes I find myself analyzing the prose so much that I have to go back and re-read sections because I don't remember the actual plot, point, dialogue, etc...

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Actually, I'm enjoying my fiction reading more, now that I'm trolling for techniques. One book I've appreciated more than any other is Dean Koontz's Strangers. I tried to read it a while back, but found my Internet-addled brain wasn't keeping up. But now that I've started work on draft 2 of my WIP, I'm enjoying it very much.

By the way, drinking from the online firehose isn't good for me. It makes me far too willing to read the lead paragraph and go to the next piece, because there is always a next piece. I've started reading most of my fiction via audiobook in the car. It's turning into a character flaw, I think.

--Milton

Being a writer means that you will read differently than you did before.