Writers Literary Agency / The Literary Agency Group / LAG /TLAG

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HapiSofi

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James D. Macdonald said:
Hapi, could you ask your friend if there's any way to contact the author directly from the submission package Fletcher sends? (Bet there isn't. Can't risk having someone from outside the scam world talk with the author.)
I don't need to contact her. I can answer this one right off the bat. While I don't think it would be terribly difficult to track down the authors, it would be improper for a third party to be privy to information about their submissions, and even more improper for a third party to contact them. While my friend is a second rather than a third party, s/he/it wouldn't be able to say anything on account of the editorial taboo against interfering between author and agent.
 

CaoPaux

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Bleah. I'd hate to be unable to tell someone they're being scammed. It'd make me feel like an accessory or something. Then again, there's so bleeping many of them, I'd spend all my time crusading, rather than writing.

Like now. :e2paperba
 

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HapiSofi said:
While I don't think it would be terribly difficult to track down the authors, it would be improper for a third party to be privy to information about their submissions, and even more improper for a third party to contact them.

I don't think that's what Uncle Jim meant. I thought he was asking if the EDITOR could find enough information in the submission package to contact the author, which would not be an ethical breach (unless they were trying to shut out the agent, which is for another discussion).
 

James D. Macdonald

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I was asking if the author's address, telephone number, and email had been stripped from the submission (or "submittal," as Bobby likes to call 'em). I'm not interested in knowing the author's name, book title, or any other details, just what information was included in the package.
 

HapiSofi

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They're almost certainly findable. Both submissions had the author's full name, the title of the book, and a brief author bio.
 

scriptman1975

The Screenplay Agency

Okay, here is my story with The Screenplay Agency:

I was well aware of this agency and it's concerns because I had researched it prior to starting the process.

I went through the motions, filled out the necessary forms, and received all the communications and emails that it appears everyone else has. So up to right before they sent me my contract, everything was playing out exactly as described on this board and everywhere else.

I eventually received my contract and was told that my work needed refining. I was given the usual referral to Writer's Literary to receive a "discounted" critique through them for $99.

Since I am an active member of the Zoetrope and Triggerstreet screenwriting communities, I compiled all the feedback I received from over 20 reviews of my work into one long, detailed and very complete critique. I submitted this to Sherry for approval.

Here's the kicker. Much to my surprise, I received an email (not an automated message) from Ms. Fine telling me that the critique was acceptable and I did not need to include another one with my contract.

That's where I am now. I have my contract and do not need a critique to be taken on as a client. I'd like to hear comments and suggestions from the people here as to what I should do next.

Thanks!
 

James D. Macdonald

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scriptman1975 said:
That's where I am now. I have my contract and do not need a critique to be taken on as a client. I'd like to hear comments and suggestions from the people here as to what I should do next.

Wait for the next request for money.

Don't pay it.

Continue in this manner until they drop you.

I'll bet you a box of donuts that Fletcher never sells your script.
 

Alan Yee

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James D. Macdonald said:
Here's the way the full scam works (and no, this isn't anything new, unique or outside-the-box-thinking ... it's been done many times by many fake agents). After picking up a bunch of fast rejections from real publishers, rejections that the author can actually see and confirm (with some more rounds of paid critiques and paid edits in between), the agent calls the author all excited ... a sale! A real, verifiable sale! Hurrah! It's a "co-publishing" deal (the next big thing, the wave of the future!) Aren't you excited? I'm excited! Your agent recommends that you not allow this opportunity to escape! What Bobby won't tell the m/a/r/k/ author is that he owns the publishing house ... so the author is paying Bobby to print his own book. After that, it's the standard pay-to-play vanity deal, with Fletcher himself as the vanity publisher. Why let someone else make the bulk of the profit on a sucker that Fletcher found and nurtured when Bobby can get every nickel himself?

Well, the full beauty of the plan seems to be working quite well... at the moment. Bobby is a convicted con artist in my own state, so I predict it'll be only a matter of time before he gets thrown back into the slammer. It might be years before that happens, but scams like this almost never last forever (although they usually do last several years).

His alter egos aren't very convincing, at least to me. All of them come to defend him on our messageboards, and yet they all write exactly like Fletcher. I mean, it's only himself/them who are his biggest defenders.

Yes, I know, UJ, most writers who search the web for agents and publishers these days aren't as educated and informed as I am. For every writer who knows better, there's hundreds of others who the scammer reaps in as suckers. What's really sad is that Bobby and PA alike suck in really good, talented authors as well as the ones who aren't quite ready yet. Very very sad indeed.

--Alan
 

Roger J Carlson

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scriptman1975 said:
That's where I am now. I have my contract and do not need a critique to be taken on as a client. I'd like to hear comments and suggestions from the people here as to what I should do next.
Well, the next step in the process is for them to send out a dozen or so submittals (ie submissions) which are so poorly crafted as to receive rejections in the minimum amount of time. (See this thread.) They will regretfully come back to you and suggest an "independent" script doctor to punch it up a bit.

Question: Have you actually signed the contract? If not, forget about them. If so, request in writing that they cancel your contract. Or do as Jim said. If you don't send them any money, they'll eventually dump you.

The point here is not, "Gee, they didn't scam me, maybe they ARE legit." The point is that they have never sold a script. Why would you want such an agent whether they were legit or not?
 
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scriptman1975

Contract

I have access to a host of attorney's through my job (I pay a premium per year, like an insurance policy, and I get all the legal advice/service I need). I was going to pick up a contract lawyer to write in some amendments about all expenses be paid by the agency and reimbursed upon the sale of the writer's work.

I want to see how that washes over with them.

BTW, I absolutely did not sign a contract.

Regards.
 
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MadScientistMatt

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My suggested next step, Scriptman:

Ask them for the list of scripts that they have sold. Not optioned for free, not "in negotiations," but sold, with an actual payment of thousands of dollars to the author. And if they actually claim to have sold one, contact its producer to make sure they aren't lying. Do you really want an "agent" who can't sell your script?

Alternate next step: Get a free email address somewhere. Go to their website's submission form. Using that new address and a pen name, submit the worst logline you can think of - something with aweful grammar and spelling, something unfilmable, or even something thoroughly incomprehensible. They'll accept it in a week or two. Ask yourself why a legitimate agent would have accepted that logline.
 

scriptman1975

Some Clarification

AC Crispin said:
Some people in this thread need a good whap! with the famed "Clue Stick."

I think some people are a bit confused about my posts here. I know this agency is completely bogus, I knew this before I began the process. I never intended to sign a contract and never expected this agency to sell my work.

I am writng these posts and sharing my experiences purely for research and reporting purposes. I am merely asking for opinions on this process to get an idea of how I can solicit more information from these people to detail here.
 

Roger J Carlson

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scriptman1975 said:
I think some people are a bit confused about my posts here. I know this agency is completely bogus, I knew this before I began the process. I never intended to sign a contract and never expected this agency to sell my work.

I am writng these posts and sharing my experiences purely for research and reporting purposes. I am merely asking for opinions on this process to get an idea of how I can solicit more information from these people to detail here.
Okay! Great! I for one did misunderstand, and I'm sorry. We are so focused here on keeping people from their evil clutches, that I, at least, tend to read all posts in that light.

However, Fletcher and his crew also watch these threads (as witnessed by the frequent drive-by posts), so you'll be strategizing in full view of the enemy. I suggest that if anyone has ideas for how scriptman1975 should proceed, keep it in PM.

Keep up the good work and let us know how it unfolds!
 

Gravity

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Roger J Carlson said:
However, Fletcher and his crew also watch these threads (as witnessed by the frequent drive-by posts)

You mean it? You mean Bouncin' Bob/Sherry Fine/Rey Best/Georgina Orr/Sparky the Wonder Lizard actually peep in here from time to time? Wow.

:::furiously waving at them:::

Yo, Bob/Sherry/Rey/Georgina/Sparky! Good to see ya! Say, here's a thought! Why not find a job that isn't scamming people? You up for that?

Ya'll come back now, ya heah!

John (my, that felt good...)
 

terem

Another foolish writer

I almost got snared into the NY Literary Agency scam. Thank you for having this thread which saved me. I actually sent them my MS and was almost ready to pay for a critique when my brain kicked in and I thought about the P&E website and went to check. That site sent me here and I was saved. Yeah!

Question: Via email, I accepted their representation. I did NOT, however, sign and return the contract. Do I need to send them an email refusing representation, or is the fact that I never sent back the contract sufficient?

I told both Amazon and Google that this agency is a scam on their 'rate this ad' links.

Thanks for helping to save me!
 

LloydBrown

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And people ask why we keep this thread going.

Answer: No, you're not obligated to anything if there's no contract and no consideration (that is, you didn't send them anything worth anything, like a manuscript).
 

Roger J Carlson

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terem said:
I almost got snared into the NY Literary Agency scam. Thank you for having this thread which saved me. I actually sent them my MS and was almost ready to pay for a critique when my brain kicked in and I thought about the P&E website and went to check. That site sent me here and I was saved. Yeah!

Question: Via email, I accepted their representation. I did NOT, however, sign and return the contract. Do I need to send them an email refusing representation, or is the fact that I never sent back the contract sufficient?

I told both Amazon and Google that this agency is a scam on their 'rate this ad' links.

Thanks for helping to save me!
Hi terem. Welcome to the club. This board saved me just as it saved you. There's no shame in being scammed by professionals and Fletcher and his crew are very professional.

BTW, check your private messages.

Welcome.
 

terem

LloydBrown said:
Answer: No, you're not obligated to anything if there's no contract and no consideration (that is, you didn't send them anything worth anything, like a manuscript).

I did send them my manuscript. *beats head against wall* Is there anything I need to do, such as send them an email (or a registered letter) officially refusing representation or telling them they have no rights to my MS?

Thanks.

Tere
 

Roger J Carlson

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terem said:
I did send them my manuscript. *beats head against wall* Is there anything I need to do, such as send them an email (or a registered letter) officially refusing representation or telling them they have no rights to my MS?

Thanks.

Tere
Nope. If you never signed the contract you're in the clear. I wouldn't respond. Might as well use up a tiny bit of their hard drive space.

I think what Lloyd meant was that your manuscript is of absolutely no value to them since they aren't interested in selling it. All they're interested in is checks signed by you.
 

HapiSofi

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Don't worry, Terem. I doubt they even look at your manuscript before the check comes in. I've never seen clear-cut evidence of an LAG employee actually reading any of the books they represent. The only question is whether your manuscript will wind up in the garbage or the recycling bin.
 

FolkloreFanatic

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HapiSofi said:
Don't worry, Terem. I doubt they even look at your manuscript before the check comes in. I've never seen clear-cut evidence of an LAG employee actually reading any of the books they represent. The only question is whether your manuscript will wind up in the garbage or the recycling bin.


The question I have is, if they want to keep the scam going and someone pays them for proofreading, wouldn't they *have* to have a manuscript to send back changes to at least look like they're working? I mean, if someone sent me edits, that would be impossible without the actual text. If someone sent me a cookie-cutter critique that could apply to any of my works, I would stop contacting them right away.

Don't get me wrong; I know these jerks are scammers. I'm just wondering how they get money without ever referencing the actual text.
 

Roger J Carlson

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FolkloreFanatic said:
The question I have is, if they want to keep the scam going and someone pays them for proofreading, wouldn't they *have* to have a manuscript to send back changes to at least look like they're working? I mean, if someone sent me edits, that would be impossible without the actual text. If someone sent me a cookie-cutter critique that could apply to any of my works, I would stop contacting them right away.

Don't get me wrong; I know these jerks are scammers. I'm just wondering how they get money without ever referencing the actual text.
From what I've been able to piece together, the scam works something like this:

Step 1: The Critique:
They ask you to have your work critiqued. If you don't know of a critiquing service they'll suggest an "independent, third-party" to do it. (Of course, they own that too.)

The critique doesn't have to be too detailed. It's amazing how many general statements will apply to almost any first novel. (Much like horoscopes.) For example:
  • You have a problem with comma placement.
  • You have a problem with cliches.
  • You have a problem with spelling.
  • Your characters are a tad flat. They could use some punching up.
  • You use too many adverbs.
  • You have a problem with passive sentences.
Now all of these are common errors in first novels (my own included), and if they add a couple of examples of each, it is quite persuasive. Fortunately (for them), they don't have to do an in-depth analysis to find a couple of examples of each. In fact, between Word's Spell Checking, Grammar Checking, and Find and Replace, you can automate all of them (except the character thing and really, whose characters couldn't use a little punching up?) Cost: $79.

Step 2: The Edit:
Naturally, given the terrific feedback you got from the Critique, you'll want to have it "professionally edited". You can of course, supply your own, but if you don't know of one, they'll be glad to direct you to an "independent, third-party editing service" (also owned by them). At this point, someone will undoubtedly have to read the thing, but how much does it cost to hire a college student who may or may not have any experience with editing? In fact, they advertise for reader/editors in Google Ads. Talk about experience!

At the very best, you'll get a copy edit. What you won't get is any improvements to character development or story structure. Cost: $99.

Step 3: The Website:
Now that you've been Professionally Edited, you'll want to have a website where eager editors will be able to browse to see examples of your work. (Editors do this all the time, you're told.) For just $149, you can have your own website! Of course, with automated web development tools the way they are today, this costs them nothing.

Step 4: Printing:
Of course, you are now eager to have them start submitting works to "buyers" (their non-standard word for editors). But before you do, they'll have to be printed. Ten manuscripts: $95.

Step 4: Submissions
Now that you've paid for printing, they'll send out a group of 10 submissions (oh, you'll have to pay postage, of course) that are guaranteed to get you rejected. (See Hapisofi's post up-thread). They are guaranteed rejections because they include a number of red-flags for editors:
  • Obviously form letter submission
  • Not targeted to a specific publisher
  • Includes a fax reply checklist for feedback
  • Calls the editor "the buyer"
  • Includes mention that the work has been "professionally edited"
Step 5: Re-Editing/Full-edit:
They will regretfully show you the rejections it received and suggest you might want to get a "full edit" (between $1750 and $2000) based on the valuable feedback provided by the publishers. Again, you can supply your own editor or...

Step 6: Repeat until you run out of money.

There are indications (I tried to find a reference, but couldn't) that Fletcher is moving into the self-publishing arena as well. If that's true, the scam can include submissions to an "independent" co-publisher (who is also owned by Fletcher). But even if it hasn't happened yet, it's the logical next step.
 
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HapiSofi

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It's my belief that all the hands-on text work gets farmed out to freelancers, and that the number of actual employees is very small.
 
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