The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

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AnneMarble

What the ?!

At the bottom of the PublishAmerica home page, has anyone else noticed the links such as "How to Get Published" and so forth?

Out of curiosity, I clicked one of them, and this is what came up:

www.publishamerica.com/fi...publisher/

Wow, that's really professional. :blackeye
 

Sher2

Re: What the ?!

<Out of curiosity, I clicked one of them, and this is what came up:
www.publishamerica.com/fi...publisher/
Wow, that's really professional.>


What the heck?! How many people keep a Latin primer lying around? I was having a hard enough time deciphering the eccentric spelling of some of the PA writers; this is ridiculous.
 

DaveKuzminski

Re: Dave is making the other board again

Gee, HB is amazingly correct in his first statement. His words are about as effective as him bashing Bill Gates and the Microsoft Corporation.

However, HB states, "The site is owned by a person who wants freelance writers to join their union. PA threatens their elitist persona and makes them far less believable when they spout the lack of union jobs due to a tough market. There's a lot more to it than that of course, but you get the skinny.

It's all part of a multi-website scam. Blow it off."

Amazing! I didn't know I belonged to any union. Not only that, but I have an elitist persona. Simply amazing! HB is so insightful. Plus, he states there's more. Oh, I hope HB will reveal that in his next post. I want my autobiography to be complete and accurate and there's oh so much that I don't know about myself that must have happened while I was asleep.

Just please don't tell me that HB is strictly a fiction writer. You know they are notorious liars, that bunch.
 

vstrauss

Re: Dave is making the other board again

Dave, I think ol' HB still thinks you're sponsored by SFWA. I remember some early attacks on P&E that made a big issue of this, and how evil and rotten the SFWA "union" was for not letting PA publication count toward membership.

- Victoria
 

DaveKuzminski

Re: Dave is making the other board again

Now I wonder who could be feeding him that misinformation?
 

aka eraser

Re: What the ?!

What the heck?! How many people keep a Latin primer lying around? I was having a hard enough time deciphering the eccentric spelling of some of the PA writers; this is ridiculous.

I took Latin for five years and it's admittedly very rusty. Most of that post seems to be in Latin but some words aren't. Maybe a mix of Latin and Klingon?
 

HapiSofi

Re: Who knows - PA doesn't

Lindy, Dave --

It would be useful to collect an archive of letters various writers have received from PA. What isn't said in any one letter may be revealed by variations in their standard letters.

At the moment I'm most interested in seeing variants of their "don't take that tone with us" letters. I believe that PA -- or, more specifically, W. Meiers -- deliberately uses emotional abuse as one of his standard business practices. The letters I've seen so far are practically a glossary of verbal abuse.

The ploy of (1.) using some version of "how dare you take that tone with me," (2.) in combination with a harsh and aggressive manner of speaking, (3.) while claiming that all the power rests with the speaker ... and his patience is wearing thin, = is a characteristic gambit of professional bullies. It's a favorite with rogue security personnel. I first spotted it many years ago when I heard it being used by a collections agent making one call after another.

I have yet to see any single letter to PA that would justify the language Meiers uses in his replies. Still, individual cases are arguable. But when he uses the same language in every case, it's deliberate abuse.

Here’s a perfect W. Meiers sentence: "You are under a wide variety of misconceptions, and we will expect your apology."

Here's my preliminary list of Meiers’ basic tropes:

1. Blame: Things are never cast as We disagree; it’s always You’re wrong. Or: You’re culpably wrong. Speaking of which …

2. Guilt: This is all your fault. You have failed to understand. You are stupid. You have a flawed personality. Your book is a flop. Your hopes and dreams were ridiculously unrealistic. Speaking of which …

3. Shame and isolation: You are alone. No one else sees things the way you do. No one else complains. PA’s contracts and business practices are unimpeachable. Everyone else is happy and successful. You’re just acting out. Your concerns are laughable. You’re making a spectacle of yourself. No one will help you. Speaking of which …

4, Powerlessness: We have all the power. We will use it arbitrarily. You have no recourse. We will not listen to you. Your requests are denied.

Here’s another perfect example of Meiers’ techniques:
”If you have valid or coherent concerns at all, we would be happy to reconsider our decision, but for now your request is denied, and your contracts remain fully in force.

Your attorney's arguments will probably not be considered by us. Your request is denied. We will agree to revisit your request six months from now. Please contact us again at that time. Also, please consider this our final word on this issue.”
It's slick, but there's nothing professional about that couple of paragraphs. It’s intended to do exactly one thing, which is make the author feel so crushed that they shut up and stop asking questions.

We only hear from the PA authors who’re resilient enough to keep talking about it. We’ll never know how many slide into silence and depression after receiving one of Meiers’ letters. Some of them could undoubtedly have been good writers, but I’m uncomfortable with that view of it, because none of them, good or bad, deserve the kind of emotional damage Meiers so casually dishes out.
 

James D Macdonald

Re: What the ?!

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet.... is a standard hash text used for placement. You see that identical text in advertisement dummies, for example. It means "block of text of about this size will go here when we write it." It's deliberate nonsense.
 

alphabeter

Re: Caveat Emptor

See ma, keeping my latin books was for a purpose greater than feeding the bookworms!
:nerd

Translation of PA obscurium:

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consetetur sadipscing elitr, sed diam nonumy eirmod tempor invidunt ut labore et dolore magna aliquyam erat, sed diam voluptua. At vero eos et accusam et justo duo dolores et ea rebum. Stet clita kasd gubergren, no sea takimata sanctus est Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consetetur sadipscing elitr, sed diam nonumy eirmod tempor invidunt ut labore et dolore magna aliquyam erat, sed diam voluptua.

Oy vey. Even in Latin, PA's editing skills show. The literal translation of these words is:

Lor itself I am chopped into shaped may be it may love, the consetetur the sadipscing the elitr, but the daylit nonumy the eirmod the tempor the invidunt that by the effort and by the pain the large aliquya was, but the daylit voluptua. But truly them and the accusa and to the two justice the pains and she creep. It may stand drive the kasd the gubergren, I swim the sea the takimata has been confirmed Lor itself I am chopped into shaped may be it may love. Lor itself I am chopped into shaped it may be it may love, the consetetur the sadipscing the elitr, but the daylit nonumy the eirmod the tempor the invidunt that by the effort and by the pain the large aliquya was, but the daylit voluptua.

Which of course, makes no sense. Accidentally, I'm sure. :grin

Here is an free website translation:

Lorem itself pain he is amet consetetur sadipscing elitr , but diam ninth eirmod transitory envious when to sink and pain magna some was , but diam luxurious. But in truth these and to accuse and equity two pain and this rebum. To stand clita kasd gubergren , to swim sea takimata holy is Lorem itself pain he is amet. Lorem itself pain he is amet consetetur sadipscing elitr , but diam ninth eirmod transitory envious when to sink and pain magna some was , but diam luxurious.

Ouch. :smack

Shall we have a contest as to what PA was attempting to say? Let us play a game this Sunday--Latin: the PA Way!
:rofl

Alpha
 

DaveKuzminski

Re: Who knows - PA doesn't

HapiSofi, yes, it would be a good idea to collect those letters. However, I have never been a PA writer, so I don't have direct access to any of those. I have to rely upon others to provide me with copies of correspondence that PA sends to its writers. Sometimes all I receive is cut and paste paragraphs from those embedded in the writer's email to me. Otherwise, I think I only have just one of those in full.

Still, if anyone wishes to provide me with full copies of PA's retorts to their writers, I'll gladly accept those copies for the P&E archives.
 

AnneMarble

Re: What the ?!

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet.... is a standard hash text used for placement. You see that identical text in advertisement dummies, for example. It means "block of text of about this size will go here when we write it."

That's what's called Greeking, right? I always thought it was ironic that they call it Greeking when it looks like fake Latin. Then again, Latining is too hard to say.

Certainly not something I'd like to have on my company's web page, though. Like having a link that goes to a page that says "This page does not exist" -- only it looks sillier. If you're not going to bother putting up those pages, don't link to them. If they're under construction, do the "Under Construction" thingie. (Still not professional, but better than Greeking.)

It's deliberate nonsense.

As opposed to their usual accidental nonsense. ;)
 

DaveKuzminski

Re: What the ?!

Truly, it appears that PA is going for the record books in as many categories as possible. Most authors published in five years, most non-edited books; most mistakes on their own web sites... ;)
 

Ed Williams 3

For a good laugh....

This was posted on a current PA thread....


"HB," keep posting as we are encouraged by your wealth of knowledge of what is happening in the literary world."


HB wouldn't know what's going on in the literary world if it crawled up his legs and....I'll shut up, as the mental imagery is just too grotesque...
 

James D Macdonald

Re: Another sad PA book pricing related thread....

Did you grab a copy of that for yourself, Ed? That thread is going to be gone in the morning, as soon as InfoCenter gets done reading this board.

<HR>

Meanwhile, Dave, did you see this?

<Blockquote>EZ

8/01/2004
21:40:20

RE: prededitors website...wow!


Message:
I do battle with Dave Kusminski(spelling?) constantly. I have yet to decipher why he is so venomous towards PA. I made my own decision to go with PA against the "advice" of so-called authors on these sites, and havent had any cause to regret doing so so far.
</blockquote>

Ol' EZ's real name is Bruce L. Robinson, author of <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1413728359/ref=nosim/madhousemanor" target="_new">The Battle Between</A>, in case you don't recognize him. He's still in his honeymoon period -- he just got his two $14.50 author's copies on the 12th of July. We'll see if he's found cause to regret his decision by Christmas of this year.

<HR>

Hapi, as long as you're collecting PA letters to authors, make sure you get a bunch of the "your comments are comedy" letters. Classics!
 

DaveKuzminski

Re: Another sad PA book pricing related thread....

We're discussing PA and Mr. Robinson's credentials currently. He claims to be a former(?) paralegal in California. You can find our discussion on the WN in the Other Ways Into Print section in the PublishAmerica topic. Feel free to join in if you want.

Gee, just went to PA forum to check it out. They have two topics on P&E. One on one board and another by the same title on another. The PA bosses must have told some of them to get the troops' morale back up. Evidently, they must see a need to discredit P&E as much and as soon as possible. Seems to me it would be easier to just produce good books and deal with bookstores fairly by having a returns policy.
 

HapiSofi

Re: Caveat Emptor

Alphabeter, the lorem ipsum text is a mildly pied passage from Cicero's de Finibus Bonorum et Malorum, which begins "Neque porro quisquam est qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit. ..." ("There is no one who loves pain itself, who seeks after it and wants to have it, simply because it is pain.") It's been used as the printing industry's standard dummy text since the 1500s.
 

reph

Re: Lorem ipsum

. . . and that's why "lorem ipsum" will get you a whumptillion hits on Google.
 

James D Macdonald

Re: Another sad PA book pricing related thread....

Seems to me it would be easier to just produce good books and deal with bookstores fairly by having a returns policy.

Nah, making good books and selling them to the public is hard. If it were easy, everyone would be doing it. What's easy is getting authors to buy cases of their own books at extortionate prices.

Let's look at that lady who has 150 copies of her book in boxes in her living room, the one who's suffering from Marketing Burnout, whose husband is wondering what's up.

Let's say that she bought those under one of PA's regular author-purchase plans (30% discount, no "royalties"). That's $13.965 per book or $2,094.75 for the lot. Add in shipping, $77.50, and she's got a $2,172.25 charge on her credit card, and no way to sell them without spending even more time and money. No wonder her husband is asking questions!
 

DaveKuzminski

Uh-huh

You're right. It's only easier if you're trying to stay out of prison and other trouble.
 

FM St George

Re: Who knows - PA doesn't

I am enjoying all the PAvidians posting how they should just cut the prices of their books, offer a return policy to the bookstores and take a beating.

if I recall, HB and Co. were bleating in another thread that your book is WORTH whatever PA put on it for a price, darn it! The public just doesn't recognize good writing, ya fools!

*falls off chair laughing*

but the usual newbies will lap it up and max out their credit cards - one can only hope that the hubby of said woman above will take away her cards before she finds another "great deal" from PA...

:p
 

bluwinteryfox

Info center

Wonderful info center at it again. At least Dennis wasn't told, like another PAer was that they needed to update their browser. And letting support know! Ha ha. Maybe in a month they'll get to it.
Monique


DennisB
8/02/2004
10:19:04
&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Subject: PA Search & Sales Pages not working


Message:
Hey PA Info Center,

Is is just me or is there a major problem over the past several days with the PA (book) search and the browsing screens? I keep getting this respons from the PA servers:

ADODB.Recordset error '800a0e7d'

The connection cannot be used to perform this operation. It is either closed or invalid in this context.

/shopping/shop$db.asp, line 923



We can't sell 'em if no one can get to them!

Any info on this 4 day old problem?

infocenter
Administrator
8/02/2004
10:26:06
&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp RE: PA Search & Sales Pages not working

Message:
Thank you for the info, but please report such problems to [email protected].

We see no such problem at all. We've had our usual amount of orders over the past four days, with no problems reported.
 

lindylou45

Re: Info center

We see no such problem at all. We've had our usual amount of orders over the past four days, with no problems reported.

They see no problems because they throw any complaints away. How many people on this board have been told by "author support" that any further correspondence by them will be discarded?
 

James D Macdonald

Re: Info center

<blockquote> We've had our usual amount of orders over the past four days....</blockquote>

In other words, "damn-near zero."

(They meant "number of" rather than "amount of," but then English isn't PA's first language....)
 

FM St George

Here's a sad one for you...

reality check in aisle three!

**************
www.publishamerica.com/cg...s/1848.htm

Roze



8/02/2004
12:47:48
Subject: Sad Sad Roze.....


Message:
I don't think I belong here among you authors, Barnes and Noble proved that for me with a refusal letter to shelf my book in their stores. In the letter they said.

"The book does not meet the competition currently available for sale in this category. If the book is on the shelf next to other books with similar subject matter, it will not meet the quality of those books in either content or presentation.

Ok, now tell me, where did we go wrong? Is it my writing skills, or is it the PA publishing skills? They just killed me with this letter. I feel like I'm nothing, all that time I sat down and wrote about my life, my precious sad life and Barnes and Noble thinks, it was not well worth it. I am doomed, very unhappy, and I think they took my self confidence away from me, something that PA had given me by accepting to publish my book.

I need coffee or maybe whiskey? I don’t even drink………….I am so sad. I don’t think I can ever type another story again in my life………………I am done…………bye all.


Roze........
Roze Dawson
www.rozedawson.com
[email protected]
ISBN 1-4137-2392-6
"Yesteryears, The Pain Left Unhealed"



SherryMoore

8/02/2004
13:18:59
RE: Sad Sad Roze.....


Message:
ROZE: Please, please, please do not let Barnes and Noble get to you like this. It is one person writing that letter and there is an enire world out there. Everyone has different views on what is good and bad and not everyone is going to like your style or my style, but obviously Publish America saw what Barnes and Noble didn't. Besides, how can your writing be bad if it came from you????? That alone makes it INCREDIBLE! Please don't be down!

Thinking of you!!!!!!!!!

Sherry

website: www.publishedauthors.net/sherrymoore
email: [email protected]

whitewolfzty

8/02/2004
13:22:42
RE: Sad Sad Roze.....


Message:
Roze,
Don't give up, Don't give up, Don't give up. B&N aren't the only ones to sell books. Have you tried Borders, or Hastings?
Try everything you can before you give up.
I believe that if PA thought your book was worth publishing it will be worth reading.
I haven't even seen the proofs of mine yet and I worry about not being read but I won't quit, no matter how many rejections I get.
If you write it they will read... (a take off from Field of Dreams, but then, everyone knew that)
Oh, have I said Don't give up?
KenC.

SDSchaffer1

8/02/2004
13:48:07
RE: Sad Sad Roze.....


Message:
Roze,

Like the others have said above, don't give up! Please don't give up! Refusals like this are part and parcel of being an author. The biggest, most recognizable names in the business, have been refused many a time by both publishers and by bookstores. Like PA says -- and they say it with good reason -- the name of game is Persistence. Keep trying! Just because one chain of stores refuses to sell your book, doesn't mean another one won't.

Like I said on another post, to another author, once you do become a big name and a big seller, Barnes & Noble will be kicking themselves all the way to the grave for having refused your work.

So please, Roze, don't give up! Keep working at it. You'll prove them all wrong, Roze. But you've got to keep going!


Please don't give up, Roze!


Sean D. Schaffer
'Wyverinia Chronicles'
ISBN: 1-4137-2354-3
www.freewebs.com/sdschaffer/

Email: [email protected]


chellesy

8/02/2004
14:01:34


RE: Sad Sad Roze.....


Message:

Oh Roze, how disappointing it must be. Please don't let that get you down and force you to give up. There are other bookstores you can sell in and many different ways you can market your book. If PA published you they must have seen something special in your writing.

Don't let this one incident cause you to stop doing something that you love. Adversity will always present itself, you've just got to overcome it. Learn and grow from the experience and prove them wrong. Now, won't they be sorry when you are selling your book in all the other bookstores and they're missing out??

Like Ken, I will continue to write no matter how many rejections I get.

Roze, I got so many rejections from so-called agents for the book PA is publishing that it's just sad. I began wondering about my writing skills and whether they were up to the task. I thought about just throwing my hands up. But then I realized that most the agents were not reading it because they were turned off by the genre/subject or not accepting new names. I didn't let that stop me because I knew that I had something worth fighting for. I'm a damn good writer and I dare anyone to tell me otherwise! :)

You've got to grow a tough skin in this business. Not everyone is going to like what you've written and some will even have the balls to tell you to your face. You just have to shrug it off, try a little harder and keep your eye on the prize.

I'm stepping off my soapbox now. :) If you need to talk, feel free to email me. You can find the email on my homepage.

Sorry this post is so long! Seems I had a lot to say today! Could be the pot of coffee I just drank. Heh heh.

Best wishes,
Michelle

www.michelleclay.bravehost.com

Roze

8/02/2004
14:15:57


RE: Sad Sad Roze.....


Message:
Dear Sherry
Dear Ken
Dear Sean
Dear Michelle,
Oh, you guys are great, you made me see the light. I never realized that if one refused there is always others.However, My dream was to shelf my book at Barnes and Noble.But,when I was refused I got sad and lost self confidence (at least for a day)"wink".
I'm keeping positive outlook at this, again, thank you so much for taking your time and replying.



Roze........
Roze Dawson
www.rozedawson.com
[email protected]
ISBN 1-4137-2392-6
"Yesteryears, The Pain Left Unhealed"




whitewolfzty

8/02/2004
15:04:35
RE: Sad Sad Roze.....


Message:
Roze,
When you get someone else to shelf your book, you can go back to the *#$@ B&N people and rub it in their respective noses. Sometimes it takes that to wake them up. They may rethink their decision and allow your dream to come true. Best of luck to you and I hope it sells millions. It would be nice to know another top selling Author (as there are many on this board), it's nice to know you anyway.
A fellow hopeful,
KenC.
************

sweetie, it's your PUBLISHER!

Here's your sign...

:p
 
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