Writing full-time. Do I need to be talked down off this ledge?

VanessaNorth said:

I really despise the implication that those of us who write full time are impractical, selfish, or irresponsible.

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How did you come up with that interpretation? Shadow is suggesting that such decisions need to be considered very carefully.

Captcha said:

And I was resenting the implication from the earlier post that those who do NOT write full time are cowards.

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Huh? I don't get this either.

Jamesaritchie said:

If you can afford to take the risk, meaning if you won't be kicked out of your place in three months, you have absolutely nothing to lose by taking the chance. You can always get a part time job later. Or a full time job a year down the line.

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I'm sorry, are we both existing in the same economy? Because I'm seeing 90 graduates apply for every graduate post, and some 600-800 people applying for each non-skilled post. So, don't kid yourself, the days of qualified and experienced people getting a job at the drop of a hat are long over.

I wouldn't bank on getting another job easily. This is why planning ahead and not acting recklessly is the best option. If you go full time, make sure you have the resources to see you through just incase it doesn't work and you suddenly find yourself unemployed in the middle of a recession and trying to explain to potenial employers that you quite your last job because you wanted to be a full time writer.

And gaps in employment are the norm now, and never were fatal. It never did take much imagination to fill in gaps, especially when you can legitimately put down "self-employed".

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Yes and no. Gaps now are the norm - which is why you should try not have them. Keep working, keep yourself relevant to the current workplace.

VanessaNorth said:

I really despise the implication that those of us who write full time are impractical, selfish, or irresponsible.

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No one said that, however, I would like to address your point. Those who write full time and can afford to - great. Those who can't really afford to, well that's a different story.

You do need to consider how any employement choice effects others - from income, to stability to benefits and healthcare etc.

Susan Littlefield said:

Huh? I don't get this either.

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From "Taking chances can always backfire, and many just don't have the courage to jump off the cliff."

I read that and thought that there are lots of reasons to not jump off cliffs other than lack of courage.

But like I said, I think the best way to view the debate is with an understanding that nobody else has any idea what's best for a stranger on the internet, and it's silly to listen to random judgments.

Captcha said:

I think the best way to view the debate is with an understanding that nobody else has any idea what's best for a stranger on the internet, and it's silly to listen to random judgments.

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This.

Really, all we can do is bring our own experiences to the table, illuminate a different way to consider some of the same concepts, discuss the things that went into our decisions and give the OP a sampling of different viewpoints to consider before applying to her own life and her own circumstances and then wish her well with whatever path she chooses and not be offended if she didn't do it like we thought it ought to be done.

I assure you that gaps in employment get you grilled with questions about your personal life, even in this day and age. Or maybe men are immune for that sort of thing?

veinglory said:

I assure you that gaps in employment get you grilled with questions about your personal life, even in this day and age. Or maybe men are immune for that sort of thing?

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There's only a gap if you list a gap. If you aren't smart enough to fill in that gap, you probably aren't smart enough to get the job, anyway.

Captcha said:

From "Taking chances can always backfire, and many just don't have the courage to jump off the cliff."

I read that and thought that there are lots of reasons to not jump off cliffs other than lack of courage.

.

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It's easy to find a hundred reasons not to jump off the cliff. All are good reasons. But if you want to succeed, jumping off the cliff is almost always necessary, and it's a trait of the successful.

Jamesaritchie said:

There's only a gap if you list a gap. If you aren't smart enough to fill in that gap, you probably aren't smart enough to get the job, anyway.

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So... lie?

Just how recently have you been looking for work? I only ask because I had the impression you were a full-time writer and had been for some time. So perhaps your advice is a bit dated?

Jamesaritchie said:

But if you want to succeed, jumping off the cliff is almost always necessary, and it's a trait of the successful.

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It's also a trait of the smooshed...

Gaps aren't always a death knell (maybe it depends what sort of work you're looking for?), or get you grilled. I had/have a four year gap due to having ME. When I went back to work - just as the recession bit and even here jobs were hard to come by, with dozens applying for each position - I put that on the CV. Not one person had a problem with it (I got a fair few interviews inside the week, and got the first job I interviewed for)

Beachgirl said:

I'm going to write, look for a job, write, work on getting healthy, write...and see where this new road takes me.

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I think this is the most important thing.

Your health has to come first. Whether you write or not, work a full-time job or not you need to be mentally and physically healthy.

Get yourself into a good place and take care.

shaldna said:

I'm sorry, are we both existing in the same economy? Because I'm seeing 90 graduates apply for every graduate post, and some 600-800 people applying for each non-skilled post. So, don't kid yourself, the days of qualified and experienced people getting a job at the drop of a hat are long over.

I wouldn't bank on getting another job easily. This is why planning ahead and not acting recklessly is the best option. If you go full time, make sure you have the resources to see you through just incase it doesn't work and you suddenly find yourself unemployed in the middle of a recession and trying to explain to potenial employers that you quite your last job because you wanted to be a full time writer.

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Ah yes I know that feeling I found it really depressing to be unemployed it worsened my depression really, even though I had loads of free time to work on my writing. I had no income so I couldn't pay for things I needed and wanted. I stopped going to the job centre because well they generally treated me like crap and made accusations at me that I was a lowlife bum who didn't want to work.

I think the rejection after rejection for interviews of really menial jobs and not getting replies back from employers that you didn't qualify for an interview out of 400 applicants really grounded my self esteem down. Because thats what they do now. I've been employed for over a year now. and that self esteem and confidence lost I've really built back up but I was a wreck.

I got to the point where I didn't want to write. I spent 4 years unemployed because I left college in 2007 when the recession hit and then went back when I couldn't find a job. To fill the gap in unemployment I looked after my grandma and volunteered in the village hall to say that I was doing something :/

I think this will be much different for Beachgirl as she is actively pursuing unemployment as an opportunity and seems to know what she will do with it and has the means to be unemployed.

veinglory said:

Going full time is only irresponsible... when it is irresponsible (e.g. causes you to default on your obligations).

Equally, it is only brave if you are risking something.

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I like the way you put this. If you have nothing to lose, then it doesn't take courage. Just the BIC.

For the OP (who has apparently come up with a solution now), she has the support of her husband and can survive without her income, so the risk is low.

For someone else, who needs the income to pay bills, the risk is much higher.

And of course that all depends on one's responsibilities - children, other family members who are dependent, housing, etc.

So while I think that listening to others' opinions can help someone see different angles, I ultimately agree with this:

Originally Posted by Captcha
I think the best way to view the debate is with an understanding that nobody else has any idea what's best for a stranger on the internet, and it's silly to listen to random judgments.

Good luck beachgirl! I hope it works out well for you.

Jamesaritchie said:

It's easy to find a hundred reasons not to jump off the cliff. All are good reasons. But if you want to succeed, jumping off the cliff is almost always necessary, and it's a trait of the successful.

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And yet, I've managed to be pretty damn successful in what I do without putting my family and my own financial security at risk.

It's all well and good to make statements like yours when you aren't, for example, the sole breadwinner with three kids, a mortgage and a powerful need to eat. By all means, take that jump. But unless you have put in place the necessary requirements to do it - ie. a great big safety net made of savings etc - then it could all backfire horribly and leave you with nothing. The business world is full of people who took the leap first and thought second.

shaldna said:

And yet, I've managed to be pretty damn successful in what I do without putting my family and my own financial security at risk.

It's all well and good to make statements like yours when you aren't, for example, the sole breadwinner with three kids, a mortgage and a powerful need to eat. By all means, take that jump. But unless you have put in place the necessary requirements to do it - ie. a great big safety net made of savings etc - then it could all backfire horribly and leave you with nothing. The business world is full of people who took the leap first and thought second.

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By the same token, for any of us, anytime we try something new doesn't it require jumping off a cliff? I'm sure before you started your adventure, you didn't know what the results were going to be. Anybody who decides to write for a living, because writing does not always provide a steady income, has stepped off a ledge by taking a chance.

Just to clarify, those of us who do not write for a living are no less or more brave than those who do write for a living.

shaldna said:

It's all well and good to make statements like yours when you aren't, for example, the sole breadwinner with three kids, a mortgage and a powerful need to eat. By all means, take that jump. But unless you have put in place the necessary requirements to do it - ie. a great big safety net made of savings etc - then it could all backfire horribly and leave you with nothing.

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Actually, that's what he said, too:

Jamesaritchie said:

If you can afford to take the risk, meaning if you won't be kicked out of your place in three months, you have absolutely nothing to lose by taking the chance.

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Jamesaritchie said:

There's only a gap if you list a gap. If you aren't smart enough to fill in that gap, you probably aren't smart enough to get the job, anyway.

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It must be fun having an omniscient knowledge of every person's circumstances and the rules of life.

Jamesaritchie said:

There's only a gap if you list a gap. If you aren't smart enough to fill in that gap, you probably aren't smart enough to get the job, anyway.

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shadowwalker said:

So... lie?

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Definitely don't lie.

I once worked at a company which employed someone who had over-stated their previous salary. When their tax records came through, their exaggerations were clear, and they were dismissed.

As my boss said at the time, you have to be able to trust your staff.

Old Hack said:

Definitely don't lie.

I once worked at a company which employed someone who had over-stated their previous salary. When their tax records came through, their exaggerations were clear, and they were dismissed.

As my boss said at the time, you have to be able to trust your staff.

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Exactly. Employers do check things out. If you lie, they will find it. I don't know of any way not to include an employment gap short of lying. (A co-worker was recently fired after working at this place for almost a year. Reason: They discovered a lie on the application, and that 'proved' he couldn't be trusted.)

Nowadays, employers have way more applicants than openings, even for the lowest level jobs. They can afford to be extra picky and they are. Don't give them an excuse not to hire you.

Huh. I had thought James meant that it's possible to put something on a resume even if you weren't working.

I mean, I have gaps in employment, but I've usually structured my resume to include some brief, honest mention of how I kept busy while unemployed. This format has seemed to work well for me, by and large (w/ the caveat that I was mainly applying for low-level, seasonal jobs).

My interpretation could be way off, however. I'm now wondering if my understanding of what "gap" even means on a resume is deeply flawed.

In any case, I'm glad Beachgirl is feeling less overwhelmed.