[Publisher] Lulu.com

Epicman · Sep 18, 2005

I finally had some time to visit Lulu and look at their pricing.

Here is what I found:

According to their own "Book Cost Calculator" a 140 page book perfect bound costs:

$7.33

This is the cost if someone orders the book direct from Lulu - say a customer.

With Diggory the same exact service costs:

$4.80

After doing searches at Amazon.com for books that are somewhat comparable to mine in topic (nonfiction) and size I found that $13.95 is a very reasonable cover price - so that is the price of my book. Let's assume we price them the same then:

Lulu $13.95 cover minus $7.33 cost equals $6.62 left over for the author right? NO Lulu takes 20% of your profit so $6.62 profit minus 20% = $6.62 -$1.32 = $5.30 Exactly a 38% profit (royalty) to the author.

The same exact comparison with my book through Diggory:

$13.95 cover minus $4.80 cost equals $9.15 left over for the author right? YES Diggory has their fee built-in to the fulfillment costs and doesn't mark them up as Lulu has done to get money out of it twice. So for the percentage profit (royalty) to the author: $13.95 - $4.80 = $9.15 for an almost 67% royalty.

So Diggory's royalty to the author for a book sold to a customer is nearly double that of Lulu's. Sure you could get an even bigger royalty through Lulu - by pricing your book so high that no one would even buy it.

I didn't have time to compare the other services - it seems you have to sign up for an account at Lulu to do that and I just do not have the time. If anyone wants to check here are the Diggory costs:

$50 set-up fee. A human being sets it up and helps you fix any errors in format and even offers suggestions - but you may ignore them and do it any way you want.

$20 to insert a photo on the front cover - I pick one and provide it.

$20 to insert a photo or text on the rear cover - again it is mine.

$60 to get a full-color ad in the Ingram catalog that goes out to over 20,000 book sellers. It was an extra I chose - you don't have to.

$90 for ISBN number, barcode, distribution, they put my book up at Amazon- ALL of them world-wide and so far over 30 other on-line vendors. They also obtained CIP (cataloging-in-publication) data from the British library.

$20 for your first proof including shipping and handling.

The total was $260 for the above items that I chose. I don't even know if Lulu offers the same items WITH the same services but here are the numbers for your own comparisons.

Just an additional note:

If you want to sell your book in book stores the figure I have been hearing frequently is a 40% discount at least. If you do that with a Lulu book - remember comparably priced to my Diggory book - you already MUST increase the cover price just to cover the discount. This leaves you with two options:

Increase your cover price just to cover the discount - this leaves no profit. Or you could increase it to a degree to make your 38% royalty you had in the first place which would make the cover price so high the book store wouldn't buy it anyway.

With Diggory the numbers work like this:

$13.95 cover price - a 40% discount = $8.37 price to book stores. $8.37 - $4.80 (fulfillment cost) = $3.57 profit (royalty) or an almost 26% royalty to the author. Still making a nice royalty even with a 40% discount off the reasonable cover price.

Check it out for yourself at www.Lulu.com and www.diggorypress.com

James D. Macdonald · Sep 18, 2005

$50 set-up fee. A human being sets it up and helps you fix any errors in format and even offers suggestions - but you may ignore them and do it any way you want.

Lulu: Setup cost is $0

$20 to insert a photo on the front cover - I pick one and provide it.

Lulu: Cost to put a photo on the front cover: $0.

$20 to insert a photo or text on the rear cover - again it is mine.

Lulu: Cost for text and/or photo on the back cover: $0.

$60 to get a full-color ad in the Ingram catalog that goes out to over 20,000 book sellers. It was an extra I chose - you don't have to.

I don't know if Lulu offers this service. I expect that you need to call Ingram on the phone and make your own deal.

$90 for ISBN number, barcode, distribution, they put my book up at Amazon- ALL of them world-wide and so far over 30 other on-line vendors.

Lulu cost for ISBN + barcode on the cover: $34.95, includes listing in Books in Print, and placement in the Amazon Marketplace.

Cost for listing with cover picture, editorial content and so on at Amazon: $0 if you want to do it yourself (they provide a worksheet with instructions for Amazon, Borders, and Barnes&Noble. All the other on-line bookstores seem to suck their content from one or more of those three).

They also obtained CIP (cataloging-in-publication) data from the British library.

CIP isn't available for POD books in America.

$20 for your first proof including shipping and handling.

You aren't required to buy a proof copy. But if you do, it's the baseline printing cost ($7.33 for a 140 page book) plus shipping. Here are the shipping prices: http://www.lulu.com/help/node/view/15#shipping

============

LloydBrown · Sep 18, 2005

James, your numbers aren't an impressive comparison. So, at setup, Lulu looks to be about $100 cheaper, IF you choose all the options Diggory offers. And then you make less money on every sale, such that it only takes about 20 sales to recoup your initial investments. Everything after that is higher margins. Even Atlanta Nights hit that mark.

James D. Macdonald · Sep 18, 2005

Lloyd, please don't think that I'm recommending Lulu. I'm not. Outside of certain very tightly defined areas it's a lousy choice for any author .

James D. Macdonald · Sep 18, 2005

Also: Please note that "every sale" is a ridiculously tiny number.

So far Atlanta Nights has sold 489 copies.

Only 37 other books, among the thousands listed in all of Lulu, have sold more copies.

The requirements that I was working under were these:

a) There had to be no upfront cost whatever. The author never spends a dime of his own money.

b) The book had to be available that same day.

c) The cover price had to be set such that the royalty per copy would be the same as the royalty a PublishAmerica author with a book of the same length would get per unit sold.

--------------

I put the ISBN on after the first $34.95 in royalties arrived.

PeeDee · Sep 18, 2005

I spent about a month being a generally friendly person over on the Lulu forums before they invited me to join a group of people on an e-group who got ideas bounced off, suggested stuff Lulu should make use of, and just generally brainstormed about Lulu. Loads of fun. I was also happy because, a few days after I agreed to join the group, a box arrived in the mail with a very comfortable (though very oddly-orange) Lulu hat. I still wear it, now and again.

One thing I always appreciated about Lulu is, the staff is nice. Extremely nice. I don't just mean polite, I mean friendly.

I use Lulu for the stuff that I don't have a vested interest in selling. For example, I did some free series work on the internet (it was how I cut my teeth, when I started actively pursuing writing). It was decently popular. A thousand-plus pages later, I had long since moved on, but I gathered it all up into book form (aware that things eventually get lost and fragmented on the internet) and left it out there for anyone who wanted to read it. I don't expect it read. I'm not making a living off it. It was useful in that I ordered a copy for myself and had a nice thick volume to put on the shelf, rather than a clumsy folder stuffed with a thousand-plus sheets of paper.

They do a good job, but they're not in the same ballpark as Random House, HarperCollins, etc. THe reason is that they're not in a ballpark. They're a whole different game.

Baseball and Football both use a ball; Random House and Lulu both use paper. You see what I mean.

Epicman · Sep 18, 2005

James and Peedee's posts illustrate exactly what I am talking about. If you just want a single - or even a couple of copies and you are not looking to market or sell your book extensively Lulu is the route to go. If, on the other hand, you wish to market the book extensively and possibly sell over 29 copies* then Diggory is the proper choice.

*this was my break-even that I exceeded before my $260 check was even cashed: $9.15 profit per copy X 28.45 = $260. I pre-sold twice that many through my website before the check was cashed and over three times as many before the book became available on Amazon.

So if you assume you sell a 140 page book at $13.95 cover price through Amazon:

Lulu 100 copies = $530 profit minus $34.99 (ISBN) $495.01 to the author.

Diggory 100 copies = $915 profit minus $260 (see previous post) $655 to the author which is $159.99 more than the same book through Lulu.

If we use the 489 copies sold to date of Atlanta Nights:
(just the number of copies sold that is)

Lulu = $2591.70 - $34.99 ISBN = $2556.71 profit to the author.

Diggory = $4474.35 - $260 (see previous post) = $4214.35 profit to the author or $1657.64 more than using Lulu.

The numbers speak for themselves and it all comes down to the author's intent. If you want a book or a few books use Lulu. If you want to sell your book use Diggory.

In support of James I agree that money should flow to the author - always. But for those of us who, because of whatever reason, have chosen to go with a POD, vanity house, or whatever term is used should examine their intentions before deciding on a particular publisher.

I chose to go the route I did because my material is extremely time-sensitive (did you see the Associated Press article of September 16th about the Kansas school board and the Nobel Peace Prize winners?) and I did not have the time to wait out the agent/publisher slush pile game. Like James says we'll see what a year brings - but so far its all been good.

PeeDee · Sep 18, 2005

Checked out Diggory Press. Honestly, though the prices are lower, it's still the same as iUniverse or its ilk. If it works for you, then it's worked for you. For my miscellaneous stuff, I'll still use Lulu.

All of these are like magic feathers. Why wait through all that tedious "major publishing house" business when wham-bang! you can be in print just like that?

If it were a magic feather that really honest-to-goodness worked, then I would walk into Barnes & Noble and I wouldn't see Simon & Schuster, Random House, Bantam Spectra, Dell Ray, etc. I would see a whole different slew of publishers such as Diggory, iUniverse, AuthorHouse, (*shudder* PublishAmerica...).

*cough*...plus they didn't send me a hat...*cough* :banana:

Enigma101 · Mar 3, 2006

Lulu stops super saver delivery

It's not official yet, but sometime this March, Lulu will announce they will be stopping free deleivery. The reason behind this; they lose too much money from it!
This is not good news for international Lulu authors.

newfieval · Mar 11, 2006

LuLu is a printer

LuLu is a printer. I was looking for just that. I used them to print copies of a my completed book. Did my own cover. I am pleased but then again being my book is of the alternative sort it was the best choice for me to be in control of the whole process.

MDavis · Apr 4, 2006

What if I just want to make a copy for me?

Got a question for people in the publishing business. I'd like to make one copy of my book so my electronically (and apparently manuscriptally) challenged dad can read it without waiting to see if I'll ever get it published. I looked on Lulu, and I like the feature where you can make it so that it's only available to you.

If I do this, will it hurt me when I'm shopping my novel to agents? I don't consider making a single copy through an online printer like Lulu "publishing" (especially if it's not available to the public), but would an agent or publishing house think they didn't have first printing rights?

Thanks!
-M

Aconite · Apr 4, 2006

MDavis--note that I am not a lawyer, but I seriously doubt any publisher would consider printing a single copy for personal use to be publishing your manuscript.

James D. Macdonald · Apr 4, 2006

If you don't make it available to the public, it isn't published.

Any agent or editor should assume that every member of your family, and any of your friends who couldn't outrun you, has already seen the text of your book. Whether it was on a disc, hole-punched in a three-ring binder, or turned into a book-looking object makes no difference.

Atomic Bear · Apr 4, 2006

MDavis said:
Got a question for people in the publishing business. I'd like to make one copy of my book so my electronically (and apparently manuscriptally) challenged dad can read it without waiting to see if I'll ever get it published. I looked on Lulu, and I like the feature where you can make it so that it's only available to you....
Thanks!
-M

I am planning on doing them myself to display at Comic-Con this year. The unfinished graphic novel will be printed up into a mock form to give an idea to publishers how it could possibly look on the shelf.

james1611 · May 18, 2006

james...

James I think your calculation is missing one other item...to get the same distribution that puts you on Amazon.com, barnes and noble and all the others...at lulu, this is the "global distribution" package (150$)

the 34.95$ deal gets you an ISBN and amazon marketplace which is essentially an auction like ebay if I'm not mistaken...not nearly as good as the regular amazon site.

The problem is of course, that all self publishers and basically most of the independents without big cash reserves are relegated to ONLINE venues only...but if you aren't eating off of your royalties and just want to write and publish your work, its still better than nothing......if you've worked your way down from the top in submissions and found no other home for your book.

James

James D. Macdonald · May 18, 2006

Once you have an ISBN, getting the "global distribution" is a matter of paying for it -- or a matter of knowing how to format the letters to the various on-line booksellers.

CaoPaux · Jul 3, 2006

(UJ ported the first few from NEPAT)

Yesterday, 09:41 AM
ByGrace
Board fanatic

That may be that Lulu is a good choice for poetry and cookbooks, but after reading about the lawsuit Ed Scott has levied against them, I'd be dubious to send them anything now. So maybe it could be the lesser of two evils?

I have to say that in the early days of Publish America, there were some very good novels published. I read quite a few, and in defense of these authors, their writing was exceptional. These are authors that should have been published by a real commercial publisher. Some have gotten out of their contracts with PA and have moved on to being published elsewhere.

Just last night I got an email about one author who has gone on to sign a contract for several new novels with St. Martin's press. So that should give many of us hope. St. Martin's did not care that her first two books were with PA. They were interested in her new work.

So those of us who were duped should not give up. We should work hard to better our writing, and submit. I think the biggest slap in PA's face would be for us to be published with a respected publisher.

I've noticed over the last few years, PA is publishing less novels and more books on abuse or poetry. I imagine those books are hard to place with an agent.

Not all earlier novels with PA were short. My first book was over 400 pages.

Yesterday, 03:25 PM
Alan Yee
Bull King of the Sparklecows

I recommended Lulu because there have been some poets who published their books with PA to print some copies for themselves, whereas they could have printed some copies for themselves with Lulu for less money. Since PA is sometimes denounced as a printer (when in fact it's a vanity press), I believe we were comparing PA-as-a-printer to Lulu (which is indeed a printer, a would make the book self-published). Lulu is much more author-friendly and much cheaper as opposed to if you use PA as a printer.

Whether or not you should use Lulu depends on whether your type of book is intended for a commercial audience, i.e. poetry books = almost no market; commercial fiction = definitely a huge market. It also depends on your goals as a writer. If you just wrote a book for fun and don't intend on getting publishing or having a career as a writer; or if the book's only intended for family members (such as a genealogy); or if it's your life story to give to your spouse and kids, Lulu might be a reasonable option.

Novels, in general, don't work as well with Lulu and self-publication (Atlanta Nights is an exception--it was not intended for publication by a commercial publisher). If you seriously want to have a writing career, go for the big agents and publishers first. I would probably fit under this category (seriously working towards publication). Most (but not all) unhappy PA authors are those who wanted their books to be shelved in bookstores and, most importantly, to be purchased and read by readers.* Some of these unhappy former PA authors have gone on to commercial publication after they tried to break off their ties with PA and get their rights to their book back.

* Books on bookstore shelves, purchased by someone in a bookstore, and read by the customer -- not necessarily in that order if your readers heard about your book, decided to use the library system, actually FOUND it there, took it home and read it, thought "hey that was a cool book. I'm gonna buy a copy for myself so I can read it over again and again, and I'll tell all my friends," and THEN purchases the book and spreads the word all across the globe about how great your book is. OR, they found it on the shelvesof the bookstore, read the cover blurb, thought "ooh, that sounds interesting I'll look inside and if I like it," read the first few pages, thought "ooh, this book held my interest I think I'll buy it and take it home to read," and then otherwise follows the same process as library users...)
__________________
My blog

Yesterday, 04:45 PM
James D. Macdonald
Dawnolite Sparklecow
Absolute Sage

Cookbooks? Cookbooks have a huge market. I'd go with a commercial publisher if I had a cookbook -- Wiley, maybe.

If you mean the kind of cookbook that church ladies sell as a fundraiser at the annual Covered Dish Supper, a better choice might be going through a local printshop. The price per unit would almost certainly be lower.
__________________

Lawsuit Link said:
Yesterday, 05:19 PM
astonwest
SuperHero Extraordinaire

Lawsuit Link said:

LULU publishing was never authorized to sell or publish my western and every one who bought a copy became accidental conspirators of an illegal enterprise and any copy out there is in violation of US copyright laws since this company did this without my permission.

They sent me a email stating they would place up a blurb about my book, so a publisher could see if they were interested, then when I said yes to a 2 sentence spot only, they violated my agreement and without my knowledge printed and sold the book never paying me any fees for any copy sold.

I am suing them now, but I need the public to stop buying it ASAP and send the information on to your friends about the illegal manners of LULU. COM.

Click to expand...

After reading this, my guess is that someone didn't read and understand the instructions and options during the signup process, rather than blatant violations by Lulu...but anything is possible.

__________________
Big Daddy West

Yesterday, 05:20 PM
Christine N.
Bush has the Ring!

What I'm talking about, Jim, is more of the 'family recipes I want to pass on' type of cookbook.
__________________
Christine

Yesterday, 05:25 PM
Alan Yee
Bull King of the Sparklecows

AstonWest:

Wow, that person is paranoid. I'm surprised that it said "Lulu" instead of "PublishAmerica." PublishAmerica does illegally sell books that they no longer have the rights to.

It sounds like the person didn't feel like reading that long list of instructions and options on the "sign-up" page.
__________________
My blog

Yesterday, 05:28 PM
CaoPaux
Mostly Harmless

Quote:
Originally Posted by astonwest
After reading this, my guess is that someone didn't read and understand the instructions and options during the signup process, rather than blatant violations by Lulu...but anything is possible.

Yeah, I'll bet he was trying for the "private" option. The mind boggles.
__________________
CAO

Yesterday, 05:29 PM
LeslieB
Geek Unique

Quote:
Originally Posted by astonwest
After reading this, my guess is that someone didn't read and understand the instructions and options during the signup process, rather than blatant violations by Lulu...but anything is possible.

I'm wondering how they got his book to publish it without him uploading it to them. Because... why would you upload the manuscript if you were just buying advertising? I think you are right about him not understanding just what he was doing.
__________________
"I'm your worst nightmare, a computer geek with a badge."

Yesterday, 05:42 PM
LloydBrown
Board fanatic

Quote:
Originally Posted by astonwest
After reading this, my guess is that someone didn't read and understand the instructions and options during the signup process, rather than blatant violations by Lulu..

I agree. His statement is not only unclear, but it doesn't make sense.

Based on this rambling in his book description (found in a cache file and no longer available through Lulu), I'll agree with the "lack of reading comprehension" school of thought.

"Black Gold” is set in the Arizona Territory just after the Civil War. The leading male character, Ed Daulton, is a wander. Ed is trying to out run a past that haunts him. You learn as the book progress that the horror of his past is tried to the Civil War and his experiences there in. He is a highly ethical man, a man of values and strong moral Faith. Amy Baggen is the leading female. Amy is a sweet, innocent, young woman tied to her land and devastated by the cruel murder of her father. Amy is also strong willed and very likable. The villain in this book is Leo Grant. Grant is after Amy’s land for the secret that lies benath it. He is ruthless and cruel and out to destroy anything and everyone that stands between him and Amy’s land. The conflict between the two leads is simple things like trust, both not feeling that they are worthy of the other’s love and of course timing in their lives.
__________________
Lloyd Brown

Yesterday, 05:43 PM
Berry
Super Member

Quote:
Originally Posted by astonwest
After reading this, my guess is that someone didn't read and understand the instructions and options during the signup process, rather than blatant violations by Lulu...but anything is possible.

That was my guess. And besides, I can't find any works listed on Lulu created by either Ed or Edward Scott. Clearly we aren't getting the whole story here.

Yesterday, 05:51 PM
James D. Macdonald
Dawnolite Sparklecow
Absolute Sage

The cache file is here, for as long as Google holds onto it:

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache...ient=firefox-a
__________________

Yesterday, 06:32 PM
PeeDee
Board fanatic

Quote:
Originally Posted by LloydBrown
"Black Gold is set in the Arizona Territory just after the Civil War. The leading male character, Ed Daulton, is a wander. Ed is trying to out run a past that haunts him. You learn as the book progress that the horror of his past is tried to the Civil War and his experiences there in. He is a highly ethical man, a man of values and strong moral Faith. Amy Baggen is the leading female. Amy is a sweet, innocent, young woman tied to her land and devastated by the cruel murder of her father. Amy is also strong willed and very likable. The villain in this book is Leo Grant. Grant is after Amy s land for the secret that lies benath it. He is ruthless and cruel and out to destroy anything and everyone that stands between him and Amy s land. The conflict between the two leads is simple things like trust, both not feeling that they are worthy of the other s love and of course timing in their lives.

Ed Daulton soon finds that all your base are belong to us.

(Good. God.)
__________________
-Pete Tzinski

Yesterday, 08:09 PM
James D. Macdonald
Dawnolite Sparklecow
Absolute Sage

Quote:
Originally Posted by LloydBrown
I agree. His statement is not only unclear, but it doesn't make sense.

It's a bit more than that. If you look at the Google Cache of Ed's web page, you see that he had a link to Lulu for folks who wanted to buy his book.

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache...n t=firefox-a
__________________

Yesterday, 08:12 PM
LloydBrown
Board fanatic

Ah, good sleuthing. I only googled the author's name, not the book, and restricted the search to site: lulu.com.

So, he's apparently suing them for selling a book that he contracted them to sell and that he advertised for sale himself, linking to their sales site?

Hmm. I wonder how much his court costs will be.
__________________
Lloyd Brown

Yesterday, 08:13 PM
PeeDee
Board fanatic

I think I love the phrase "a stranger and Apaches" though.

This doesn't in any way disparage against Lulu. It's just an idiot, one of those illiterate people who write books. Why that happens, I'll never know.

Lulu's fine. I still maintain that, so long as you don't go to Lulu thinking that it's going to be a publisher like RandomHouse (and soon, you too can be famous) then you're fine. For what it does, it's a very good service, and certainly one of the more honest sites on the web, in myne opinion.

Don't just take my word for it, though. Ask a strange and Apaches.
__________________
-Pete Tzinski

Yesterday, 08:14 PM
PeeDee
Board fanatic

Quote:
Originally Posted by LloydBrown
Ah, good sleuthing. I only googled the author's name, not the book, and restricted the search to site: lulu.com.

So, he's apparently suing them for selling a book that he contracted them to sell and that he advertised for sale himself, linking to their sales site?

Hmm. I wonder how much his court costs will be.

He should've saved his court money and just gone with PublishAmerica instead.
__________________
-Pete Tzinski

Yesterday, 08:28 PM
James D. Macdonald
Dawnolite Sparklecow
Absolute Sage

Let's look at something else (also from Google Cache):

Okay, 408 pages. If you just ran the book through Lulu straight, a 408 page book would go for $12.71. So somehow this book also got a dollar tacked onto its cover price. That would make no sense if he intended to go for the private option.

Ed says:

Quote:
They sent me a email stating they would place up a blurb about my book, so a publisher could see if they were interested, then when I said yes to a 2 sentence spot only, they violated my agreement and without my knowledge printed and sold the book never paying me any fees for any copy sold.

I'm unaware of any such program over at Lulu, and don't see any other books with just a two-sentence blurb so publishers can see if they're interested.

You want my guess?

My guess is that Ed uploaded and published his book himself. (I'm familiar with the process, from other projects, and know exactly how it works. I know exactly which radio buttons he pressed, and what he had to type in.) He put a price on it, he advertised it on his web page. I bet if anyone has any old emails from Ed in their files they'll find a link to Lulu with "buy my book now!" in his sig line.

So, he's self-published his book. Then he says, "Wow. Maybe I can get a real publisher to take a look!" And he starts to send around copies of his nice perfect-bound trade paperback. But the answer he keeps getting from publisher after publisher is "Sorry, we don't do reprints."

What can he do?

I'm guessing that the lawsuit is a cartooney.

__________________

Yesterday, 09:19 PM
PeeDee
Board fanatic

I think you're right, but I think that having a cartoony lawsuit ("What the...? How'd my book get published there? I didn't do it! Once I got my book back from those hooligans, will you publish me...?") is not going to do him much good when he goes to publishing houses.

Save maybe Publishers' Clearing House.
__________________
-Pete Tzinski

Alas, we've lost the Attack of the Summer Interns. :tongue

(Let the record show that Lulu does not engage in or condone spam.)

James D. Macdonald · Jul 3, 2006

Here's the .jpg from Ed's page cache that shows clearly that he himself had linked to the book-for-sale:

PeeDee · Jul 3, 2006

If you can't find a cached post of me calling him an idiot, I'm willing to re-type it.

*ahem*

This man is an idiot.

(not a problem)

Andrew Jameson · Jul 3, 2006

Ha! Very nice, Uncle Jim.

Tilly · Jul 3, 2006

Busted!

(Peedee, please post a pic of the Lulu hat. I'm overwhelmed with curiosity.)

CaoPaux · Jul 3, 2006

Aaarrrrgh! I just realized that the above was supposed to be in Lulu thread #839. Oh, well. Here’s the rest of Lulu thread #904….

06-11-2006, 09:31 PM
yeyeman9
One of the Locals

I want to publish my book, I want it to be in the major websites as Amazon.com, Borders and all that. Will Lulu do this for me? Is lulu good for this type of thing? I want to sell my book, I want it to reach the masses, I want people to read it. But is Lulu good enough for this or I should go somewhere else? THANKS!

06-11-2006, 09:39 PM
Aconite
Full sun to light shade
Mod Squad Member

If you want to be read by a lot of people, you want to be published by one of the big commercial publishers. Self-publishing won't get you that. It's easy to get a book listed on the online sites; it's much harder to get it in bookstores, and stores are still where most books are sold.

For what you want, you need a commercial publisher, with an editing department, a production department, a marketing department, a publicity department, distribution channels, and stuff you don't even know about that's critical to the success of your book.

Want a really graphic example of why you want to go with a commercial publisher? If a self-published book sells 5,000 copies, that's considered stupendously successful (for a self-pubbed book. Most self-published books sell about 70-100 copies). If a commercially published book sells only 5,000 copies, it's considered a disaster. Commercial publishers routinely sell a lot of books. Self-publishers don't.
__________________

06-11-2006, 10:29 PM
James D. Macdonald
Your Genial Uncle
Absolute Sage

Quote:
Originally Posted by yeyeman9
I want to publish my book, I want it to be in the major websites as Amazon.com, Borders and all that.

Click to expand...

Yes, if you're willing to pay for it.

(Before we begin, you should know that "publishing" has a lot more to it than just "printing."

Quote:
Will Lulu do this for me? Is lulu good for this type of thing?

Click to expand...

They'll print your book every time they get an order, and that's the extent of it.

Quote:
I want to sell my book,

Click to expand...

I understand that -- but do you want to have a full time job as a salesman?

Quote:
I want it to reach the masses, I want people to read it.

Click to expand...

Then find a publisher. (Note: if you go to any POD at all I pinch the bridge of my nose and shake my head.)

Quote:
But is Lulu good enough for this or I should go somewhere else? THANKS!

Click to expand...

If you want wide readership you need to go elsewhere. How many Lulu books have you personally read? How about your friends?

Who publishes the books that you read? Get your book published by them.
__________________

06-12-2006, 12:29 AM
yeyeman9
One of the Locals

I have already tried, thats the problem. None of them will accept them because it is too short, 26,000 words. I have tried coming up with ideas on how to extend it, but haven't been able to yet. So either A)Publish it with a self publishing company like Lulu, B) Try and see if I can extend it somehow, even tho I feel like it is complete or C)Never publish it at all.

06-12-2006, 02:05 AM
James D. Macdonald
Your Genial Uncle
Absolute Sage

Write a new, better, different, longer work. Sell it. Get a following. Uncomfortable lengths can become comfortable if you can provide the readers.

Publishers aren't wary of novella or novelette-length stories just because they decided one day to make things tough for writers. The public in general doesn't buy them.

Readers rule this industry -- never forget it.

Self-publishing your work won't magically make it more attractive to readers. What will make your work more attractive to readers is showing them a good time in other books.

There's one more thing to remember. There are worse things than not being published. Being published badly is one of them.
__________________

06-12-2006, 02:25 AM
yeyeman9
One of the Locals

Quote:
Originally Posted by James D. Macdonald
Write a new, better, different, longer work. Sell it. Get a following. Uncomfortable lengths can become comfortable if you can provide the readers.

Publishers aren't wary of novella or novelette-length stories just because they decided one day to make things tough for writers. The public in general doesn't buy them.

Readers rule this industry -- never forget it.

Self-publishing your work won't magically make it more attractive to readers. What will make your work more attractive to readers is showing them a good time in other books.

There's one more thing to remember. There are worse things than not being published. Being published badly is one of them.

Click to expand...

True, you might get bad reputation and all that. I am actually writing another one, a new one, right now. Which should be, hopefully and I will try my best, longer. I was planning on finishing this one now, hopefully get a publisher and afterwards retry to publish the one that isn't long enough. DOn't know if I explained myself pretty well there...but oh well, hehe. And thanks for your help and suggestions, really appreciate it.

06-12-2006, 02:27 AM
James D. Macdonald
Your Genial Uncle
Absolute Sage

Was is 100% necessary to quote my entire flippin' post?
__________________

06-12-2006, 02:54 AM
yeyeman9
One of the Locals

Sorry didn't think it bother ya that much...It was easier for me...

Baumski · May 6, 2007

Lulu Self Publishing

Hi,

Has anyone had any experiences with Lulu Publishing. I've visited the website and it looks like just the kind of company that every writer would want to be part of. But is it all that it's cracked up to be, I wonder.

James D. Macdonald · May 6, 2007

It's a vanity press. Up front about being a vanity press, but there you are.

Extensively discussed in the Self-Publishing boards.

Baumski · May 6, 2007

Having just extensively spent the last few hours reading all the posts on this thread, the one important thing that I've learned is that Lulu isn't out to con anybody. There are limitations to using them but at the end of the day they are, as has often been said on this thread, a what you see is what you get printing company.

Just as a by the by, I'd just like to state that this is an outstanding website and although I am yet to fully immerse myself within the community, I am forever in the debt of people who really do care about writing and all things associated with it.

Many thanks.

[Publisher] Lulu.com

I said What!?!?

Your Genial Uncle

Your Genial Uncle

Your Genial Uncle

Where's my tea, please...?

I said What!?!?

Where's my tea, please...?

The Brunette She-Ra

Your Genial Uncle

the Bruin of Tomorrow™

Your Genial Uncle

Mostly Harmless

Your Genial Uncle

Where's my tea, please...?

(not his real name)

Mostly Harmless

Your Genial Uncle