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Frances Goldin Literary Agency

just_a_girl

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Well, I'm glad you're rich!!!!! But I'm not glad you haven't really read anything I've said. I'm saying he asked for a full manuscript, but then admitted to reading only a small portion of it. If he was professional, he would have asked for a sample first. P.S. Would you be calling me "hysterical" if I were a man?
 

Julie Worth

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No, by the three posts in a row, with the escalating use of exclamation marks.
 

CaitlinK18

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just_a_girl, I'm going to say something here that you probably won't like, because it's harsh, but here it is: agents don't owe submitting writers anything.

They don't owe you a critique of your work, they don't owe you a response beyond a polite form rejection, and they don't owe you a timeframe in which to read your work beyond the pesudo-standard three months.

This isn't to imply that agents are uncaring godlike beings that we should fall down and worship, but if they're good, they're busy doing their jobs and only touch the slush pile to seek new talent. If you are said talent, they will respond. If you're not what they're looking for, they move on. Time is money in any entertainment industry.

This agent in particular decided that your work was not right for him before he finished reading. Once you've been in his business for a while you learn to quickly analyze each MS and if it doesn't meet your immediate need, to reject it. Let me put an analogy here: if you're in a bookstore and you pick up a 300 page novel, you can usually tell whether you're going to like it after the first few pages. Sometimes you flip around, or read the ending (or is that jus me?) You have a great query, I'm sure, because you're getting reads and your letter probably inspired this agent to request the full. Alas, he discovered more quickly than the last page that it was not for him. This doesn't make him flaky or incompetent. You'll find this is pretty standard behavior among agents. It's not an ideal situation from the writer's end, certainly, but calling someone names like "flake" because they rejected your manuscript when you believe you were owed a full read doesn't reflect well on your professional image as a writer.

Please don't take this as an attack on your person, but a step back and some reflection might be in order while you consider the next step to take with your manuscript. Best of luck. :)
 

just_a_girl

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I realize that most agents can tell after a few pages whether or not they want to read on. This is why most of them ask for sample chapters BEFORE they ask to see an entire manuscript. Why isn't anybody getting this point??? He should have asked for sample chapters first. Furthermore, I don't appreciate your condescending tone. I've been published in several literary journals and was formerly represented by a reputable agent, who unfortunately dropped the ball in my particular case. But, my point is I'm no novice to the publishing industry. Maybe you should take a bit of time to consider my points. You could learn something.
 

DeadlyAccurate

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just_a_girl said:
P.S. Would you be calling me "hysterical" if I were a man?
I would. I don't differentiate. Hysterical is hysterical. Multiple exclamation marks just make a writer look silly.
More ! /= more good.

Yes, I agree with you that it would have been nice for your sake if Matt McGowan had started with the partial, but only because he ultimately rejected your work. If Mr. McGowan had instead asked to represent you, would you still have been upset that he had asked for a full from the beginning, or would you have been happy he skipped a step?

It sucks, but you do yourself no favors by disparaging this agent on a public board.

You obviously wrote a query that made him think your book was something he'd like to read in full, so you must have a terrific query. If your book is up to snuff, someone will eventually want to represent you for it.
 

JAK

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just_a_girl said:
I realize that most agents can tell after a few pages whether or not they want to read on. This is why most of them ask for sample chapters BEFORE they ask to see an entire manuscript. Why isn't anybody getting this point???

I get it. Been my experience that agents usually ask for the first xxx pages and go from there. And it is a pain to print off the entire mss. and send via snail mail to only have the first fifty pages actually read -- and you can usually tell how far they got. Still, by not sending the entire work you run the "what if they like it and want to keep reading" risk. Long odds there but they always are. Might want to propose actually sending a partial if this happens again.
 

CaitlinK18

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just_a_girl said:
I realize that most agents can tell after a few pages whether or not they want to read on. This is why most of them ask for sample chapters BEFORE they ask to see an entire manuscript. Why isn't anybody getting this point??? He should have asked for sample chapters first. Furthermore, I don't appreciate your condescending tone. I've been published in several literary journals and was formerly represented by a reputable agent, who unfortunately dropped the ball in my particular case. But, my point is I'm no novice to the publishing industry. Maybe you should take a bit of time to consider my points. You could learn something.

I don't care what you think of my tone. What everyone on this thread is telling you is how it is. Maybe he should have requested a partial. Maybe he really believed your work was that good, and that's why he requested a full. The point is, none of this makes him a flake or warrants your attack. Chalk it up to the cost of doing business and keep submitting.
 

Momento Mori

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just_a_girl - did he actually tell you that he only read a few pages? Because you say in one of your earlier posts that he said he "took a look", which could mean he only read the opening chapters or he sat down and read the whole thing or he skim-read it.

I understand that it's a huge pain in the bum to print out a whole manuscript, pay a maximum postage and then be rejected, but that doesn't mean that Matt McGowan is not a professional and it doesn't follow that other people shouldn't send him queries. It's entirely possible that he asked for the whole manuscript because you wrote a kicking query letter but then felt that the execution wasn't for him.

I'm sorry to say it (because your obviously hurting about this), but the way you're phrasing your posts here really does sound like sour grapes. Querying agents means you have to take a punt on postage costs - as you've already been through the experience once, you know that sometimes it'll pay off and sometimes it won't. This time it didn't and that's disappointing, but impugning an agent's professionalism because your nose is out of joint over 10 dollars only makes you look bad.

Given that you've been published in journals, it's only a matter of time before you sell that manuscript and when you do, you might end up regretting some of the things that you've said here.

Hope all goes well for you with the other agents.

MM
 

UWS

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You Are Just Wrong, Girl

just_a_girl said:
I realize that most agents can tell after a few pages whether or not they want to read on. This is why most of them ask for sample chapters BEFORE they ask to see an entire manuscript. Why isn't anybody getting this point??? .

I think you are the one who's missing the point, and since I'm also a woman, I hope you don't accuse me of sexism.

The idea that "most agents do this," or "most agents do that" is one that leads a lot of people to do the wrong thing. In my experience --I've published one book, and I'm now in the process of sending queries, partials and fulls to agents for my new novel-- agents are as different as any other kind of people. Some don't accept e-mail queries, some only want email queries; many want synopsis, others hate to see the plot spoiled; a few want bios, others don't give a damn who you are as long as you can write; some want to see a few pages, others want the whole thing; etc.

From my queries, I've gotten more requests for full manuscripts than for partial manuscripts and, yes, it can get expensive (except in the case of those agents who asked me to e-mail them the whole manuscript, which was a very welcome surprise) but that comes with the territory. Eventually, technology will catch up and we'll probably do all of our business over the Internet. That time is not yet here and I think you're being terribly unfair to the agent.

First of all, he asked to see the full manuscript. That's a great thing and you are terribly mistaken to construe it as a flaw of his. It means he thought he'd probably like it enough he'd want to represent you. Does it suck that he didn't like it? Of course. But that's just the way it goes. If you can't handle rejection, you're in the wrong game. Not everyone is going to like the things you write--not even all the agents who thought they would, and for that reason requested to see the full manuscript.

Second of all, he was fast. You act like that's a bad thing. What would you have preferred? That he sits on the manuscript for six months before replying to you? Would that have made you feel better? It doesn't take that long to read an average-size novel. To me, an agent who responds quickly is someone who's efficient, organized and considerate of the author's time.

Yes, there are bad agents. I'm not saying that every agent who's legit is a good one. I had a terrible experience with an agent and I know too well that some of them are unprofessional and plain bad.

But so can writers, and your "BEWARE" about Matt McGowan was highly uncalled for, and unprofessional. I don't know McGowan from Adam, but from your emails I can say he did nothing wrong. He liked your query. He liked it so much he asked you to see your full manuscript. He read it quickly. These are all pros, not cons. Just because he decided to pass on your manuscript doesn't give you the right to publish what indeed is a very hysterical warning.

And if you don't believe me, if you think I know nothing, I don't get your point, or whatever, why don't you ask other agents? Google "Miss Snark" and you'll find the blog of the anonymous agent. She has links to other agents who blog. Contact any of them. Contact all of them. Tell them what happened and I can guarantee that they are going to say the same thing everyone has told you here: that the agent did nothing wrong. That it's you (not him) who needs to take a deep breath, calm down, change your attitude, and go easy on the exclamation marks.
 
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Miss Plum

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Queried Sam Stoloff 4/3/09
Partial requested 5/15/09
Rejected 5/18/09
 

Tienci

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Thanks for updated stats Miss Plum!

Me- Queried 08/23, partial requested (and sent) same day, still waiting.
 

Tienci

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Thanks for updated stats Miss Plum!

Me- Queried 08/23, partial requested (and sent) same day, still waiting.

Over a year later, still waiting on a response re: partial and synopsis request sent to Frances. :Shrug:
 

WriteStarfish

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Anyone know how long submissions typically stay in the "in progress" status when using their forms? This is a step up from the "received" status and so it seems to suggest that the query has at least been read.
 

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I submitted my query through their online form this morning to Ellen. I feel it's a long shot for me with this agency (I have a historical fiction). But we'll see what they say. I got an automated response that they received it. I'll post back when I hear something more.
Bryan
 

pavtbr

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I submitted my query through their online form this morning to Ellen. I feel it's a long shot for me with this agency (I have a historical fiction). But we'll see what they say. I got an automated response that they received it. I'll post back when I hear something more.
Bryan

Got a rejection email on Tuesday. So it took just over a month. Oh well, onward I go!
Bryan
 

kjolie

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My query, sent four months ago, is still listed as "In-Progress." Not sure if it's a software problem, but I've just assumed it's a "no."
 

MadameApeFace

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I went to submit through the online form, but it refused to process it unless I attached a file; however, nowhere on the agency web site, on the agents' AAR pages, or on the Submittable form does it specify what kind of a reading sample they expect.
 

Maddie

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MadameApeFace -- I queried this agency on 11/30/14, attaching a full of the manuscript as a pdf file. It went "In Progress" on Submittable the same day (no excited jumping up and down, it's still "In Progress," whatever that means). I also agree that nothing on their site nor on their AAR page states what kind of file, and how much of that file, but I leaped right in and sent the full anyway. Nothing to lose on that leap, I hope.

Updated: Received an R today (12/16/14) from Sam Stoloff via Submittable
 
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MadameApeFace

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As an update: I queried Ellen Geiger with a YA project on 12/11 (I ended up attaching just the first chapter as a sample) and received an R today (12/16) with the message "I'm afraid I am no longer taking on Young Adult and Children's titles." I don't know if that's a temporary state of affairs or a permanent change -- her AAR and PM pages still indicate she accepts YA/children's lit -- but there you have it.