Learn Writing with Uncle Jim, Volume 1

Status
Not open for further replies.

macalicious731

Re: Thanks!

You know what I admire about Rowling? Her ability to write one, seemingly meaningless sentence which later - even books later - comes to hold magnificient relevance.

Absolutely fantastic plot writing. And index cards? The first step!
 

alinasandor

Cards

I just want to say that I find the card idea fabulous!!!:jump I've read about a similar version of this idea where you put all of your cards, once completed, on a bulletin board. All of the cards don't have any labeling, such as Chapter 1, etc. Then, you mix and match the cards to come up with new variations on the plot. I think this can be a great way to fix what isn't working in a story. The scene doesn't work in chapter 1? Poof! Move it under chapter 5.
It's great!
 

paritoshuttam

Re: Making chapters interesting

<hr />Just another thought... it's interesting that your character goes from good to bad.<hr />

Well it's not that character turns out bad all of a sudden. The motivation is pretty much there... at least the circumstances force him to do so. In a nutshell: a failed love affair that makes him take out his anger on other things.

The story is credible; I don't harbour doubts about that aspect. But the page-turning quality is missing, as I now recognize after laying off from the MS for a decent period. As many of you have pointed out here, that I need to give a bait to the reader at the end of a chapter. I think that's where I am missing out. It's almost like each chapter is a self-contained unit--only chronology takes you from Chapter One to Chapter Two.

When I was writing the first draft, I did have my doubts but I thought this is how it would happen in real life. But since then have realised what it means when you say fiction is not portraying real life as it is. You have to make the portrayal interesting too. It was my first attempt, and I am learning.

OK, so I will turn over the following options:

1. Write the main scenes and turning points on cards.
2. See how much I can shuffle them around to make it interesting without destorying the main plot.
3. What subplots I can include.
4. Make chapters shorter and end them with a question or two that the reader cannot resist following.

Thanks a lot folks.
Paritosh.
 

paritoshuttam

Foreshadowing

I have used a bit of foreshadowing. I only mention a few facts and places in the first chapter that will set the scene in the climax in the last chapter. Was that being too subtle?

Or, still better, could you illustrate what you would call effective foreshadowing, Uncle Jim?

Thanks,
Paritosh.
 

James D Macdonald

Re: Foreshadowing

<a href="http://www.literature.org/authors/poe-edgar-allan/amontillado.html" target="_new">The Cask of Amontillado</a> by E. A. Poe is an exercise in foreshadowing.

Take, for example:
<blockquote>

The man wore motley. He had on a tight-fitting parti-striped dress and his head was surmounted by the conical cap and bells.

</blockquote>

(Montressor is dressed as a fool; Fortunato fools him.)

<blockquote>
"Come," I said, with decision, "we will go back; your health is precious. You are rich, respected, admired, beloved; you are happy, as once I was. You are a man to be missed. For me it is no matter. We will go back; you will be ill, and I cannot be responsible. Besides, there is Luchresi --"


"Enough," he said; "the cough's a mere nothing; it will not kill me. I shall not die of a cough."
</blockquote>


or

<blockquote>
"I drink," he said, "to the buried that repose around us."
</blockquote>

or

<blockquote>

"You are not of the masons."

"Yes, yes," I said; "yes, yes."

"You? Impossible! A mason?"

"A mason," I replied.


</blockquote>
 

pixie juice

just wanted to say...

Hi Uncle Jim 'n friends...

I just wanted to say thanks for all the hard work and thought everybody has put into this post. I started reading it for "the perfect cover letter" that someone pointed to here from the Short Fiction forum, and 70-something pages later, I've ended up learning so much more than that.

I write short stories and poetry, nothing published yet, but I'm working on that. I have a novel in my head... and I know that means absolutely nothing until it's down on paper... but it's just such a BIG thing to approach. I'm just a fledgling of a writer, and maybe it's even that I don't feel "accomplished enough" to start a novel yet.

Anyway though, I don't have any specific questions right now, but I'm sure I will in time. I'm enforcing the BIC method upon myself every day... and the note card outlining method sounds like a perfect idea (may even help with some of my shorts).

I just wanted to say kudos.

Peace :)
 

James D Macdonald

Re: just wanted to say...

... but it's just such a BIG thing to approach.

One word at a time, one page at at time.

We were still calling our first novel "the short story" when we'd hit page 200. Talk about "unclear on the concept...."
 

James D Macdonald

Agents

From another thread:

<hr>

What agents do:

You're hiring an agent for his/her expertise.

An agent:

a) Knows which editors are looking for what properties. The agent is better able to fit a given manuscript with the house most likely to offer on it,

b) Is able to negotiate a more advantageous contract, knows what's a good deal from a particular house,

c) Keeps track of money coming in, contract terms, reversions, and so on,

d) acts as a guarantor to the editor that the manuscript is worth reading, and is appropriate to the house; this moves the manuscript to a higher position in the to-read pile,

e) can arrange "auctions," which are a formalized form of simultaneous submission,

f) can make suggestions to improve your manuscript before submission.

The agent is a go-between, to handle the business end, so you and the editor can pretend that all you're interested in is art.

<hr>

Note: The best agent in the world can't sell a bad manuscript.

More important: The best agent in the world won't even try to sell a bad manuscript. Editors know this. That's what makes the guy the best agent in the world.
 

Chris Goja

Not-so-secret agents

( I'm in the middle of moving house, so I'll keep it brief and to the point: )

Agents are clearly the thing to have this season, that much I've gleaned, but how does one go about actually accq... aqu... getting one, then?

Just flipping through the pages of Writers' Handbook doesn't seem a very efficient way of getting one, so is there any inside information on where to find one of the best? Having read earlier posts about bad ones I wouldn't want to end up with one of them!
 

James D Macdonald

Re: Not-so-secret agents

A useful agent has sold books that you've heard of.

So ...

Take a book that you've read and liked. Find out who agented it. Write to that guy.
 

SRHowen

how--

start out with the Writer's Market book, ( I tell you it's a book because years ago, I sent out my very first ms and was told to consult The Writer's Market and had no idea what it was.)(this was before the Internet folks)

But the book is only a starting place. You have to go through the agent's section (or get just the guide to agents) and mark all the ones that are interested in what you write. If they say no romance, then don't mark them. I used a highlighter to highlight the name.

Next, go to google. Put in the agent's name. Read what comes up about that agent. If they have a web page, check it out. If they list sales, check that the books do exist. Most legit agencies list their clients--do you know any of the names? Do they write what you write?

Check out some of those writer's web sites--most have a contact e-mail. E-mail them and ask about the agent. DO NOT ASK TO BE RECOMMENDED TO THEIR AGENT--this will seriously piss them off.

Now look at your list--I bet a lot of names are gone. Of the ones that are left send a query.

But always remember the golden rule--money flows toward the author. DO NOT PAY ANYTHING IN ADVANCE-- NOT EVEN POSTAGE ETC. Many agencies are now charging postage, copy costs, boxes etc. before a sale is made, but not before the cost is incurred and you should receive a statement. (a reasonable statement which includes item by item $$ for each thing)

Good agents edit, not all, but they do not recommend you to a "book doctor." They do not recommend that you pay their editing dept $$

They make their money on the sale of your book.

Shawn
 

macalicious731

Re: Not-so-secret agents

James - you're in NH? No kidding! Whereabouts? (If you don't mind my asking...)
 

James D Macdonald

Re: Not-so-secret agents

Where in New Hampshire? Waaaaaay up north. Think "Canada" and you're about right.
 

Chris Goja

Thanx Shawn,

that was a very good explanation, indeed. I'm much obliged. Now if only I had something to send to these illustrious folks.... :eek:


Chris
 

Chris Goja

Waaaaaaaay up north,

is in Alaska, according to a certain song, innit?

But then my interest in geography has always been limited to "How do I get out of here and back to that pub?", so what do I know...?

Cheers,


Chris (living in a world of boxes)
 

macalicious731

Re: Not-so-secret agents

Ah, I see. Stuck up in the mountains with all the moose, are you?
 

JuliePgh

Scene Breaks vs Chapter Breaks

Uncle Jim,

I know when to end a scene, but I'm not sure what necessitates beginning a new chapter. Some books appear to end a chapter with a hook, only to start the next chapter at the same point, same scene.

How obvious should hooks be?

Also, on a similar note, when I'm running many subplots how should they be grouped in chapters? Right now, I order them chronologically and don't worry about which subplots fall in the same chapter. I look at the overall chapter size to determine when to cut and begin anew.

What is your advice?

Thank you! I start came across this site two nights ago and can't wait to finish reading your thread!

(My apologies for the double posting; I'm still learning how to navigate the site and I posted to the general area by mistake. I really want to hear from Uncle Jim!)
 

James D Macdonald

Re: Scene Breaks vs Chapter Breaks

Hi, Julie --

Would you believe me if I said "I don't know?"

It really depends on your book. No one said your book even has to be divided into chapters.

Some rules of thumb:

A chapter is a comfortable length to read at one sitting. If your chapters are ten to fifteen pages, that works for a lot of people. Three-to-four page chapters give a feeling of breakneck pace, which might work for a thriller, or might not.

The question is -- where does the break feel natural to you?

A chapter ending contains a reason for the person who put the book down last night before he went to sleep to pick your book up, rather than watch TV, start another book, or play touch football.

Sub-plots -- as long as the reader isn't confused about where they are in the plot, anything you do is okay. Do not confuse the reader.

Your hooks don't need to be obvious at all. (Being too obvious can give your novel a rather Hardy Boys feeling.) They just have to be there.
 

pencilone

Good versus Bad

First of all, many thanks to uncle Jim for this thread.

I've been crawling through it for the past week and I was impressed about the useful info provided.

I have a little question too...

Let's say we have the good versus bad theme.
Do you think that (generally speaking) the reader would feel somehow cheated if, by the end of the story, the 'bad' from the beginning becomes 'good' too (only that a different kind of good ), and the initial 'good' moves towards 'bad' (from a different perspective than that at the beginning).

Or maybe it is better to have a consistent 'bad' throughout the story?

I hope I don't sound too confusing;)

Regards,

Pencilone
 

Jules Hall

Re: Not-so-secret agents

If you mean what I think you mean (stories where it turns out that the "good guys" from the start aren't actually all that good, and the "bad guys" aren't all that bad), I like stories that follow that kind of path. They're not common, but they can be fun to read.

There's at least two good ways of doing it; either the story shows the protagonist realising he's on the wrong side and switching, or it uses dramatic irony to show the reader that the protagonist is on the wrong side, and leaves you wondering whether he's going to switch right up until the climax...
 

Fresie

A classic example

Crime and Punishment.

A self-centered, sleazy, friendless, over-ambitious (however human Dostoevsky portrays him), arrogant little s**t. Murders two innocent people and happily gets away with it by 3/4 of the book. And then all his little positive traits, all these bits of foreshadowing that Dostoevsky so cleverly plants all over the book, suddenly kick in and we see what a good guy he really is! :love

I don't really think there's such a thing as a bad person. They're just confused, disoriented good people on their way out of their confusion.

(As for good guys turning bad, I would think, literature is packed with them. I immediately thought of King Lear's daughters, for some reason)

I think you've got a great idea.:thumbs
 

macalicious731

Re: Scene Breaks vs Chapter Breaks

Cheated? Absolutely not. Character growth is what we as readers demand. The specific kind of growth is what makes the story interesting, and also what sets it apart from the rest.

Of course, I just ask we receive explanation as to way the change of sides (hopefully with some foreshadowing?) - but you already knew that. :D

<3.
 

James D Macdonald

Re: Good versus Bad

Do you think that (generally speaking) the reader would feel somehow cheated if, by the end of the story, the 'bad' from the beginning becomes 'good' too (only that a different kind of good ), and the initial 'good' moves towards 'bad' (from a different perspective than that at the beginning).

Well, golly. You've just described the theme arc in the first three of our Mageworlds books . (Buy one! Bettter still, buy a dozen! They make excellent gifts!)

Or, as someone else (my beloved co-author, to be precise) once said: "The conflict of good vs. evil is all very well, but if you want to make your characters squirm, try the conflict of good vs. good."
 

maestrowork

Re: Not-so-secret agents

Or good/bad vs. good/bad... characters who are not totally bad or totally good... makes for really interesting read because you really don't know who's going to "win."
 
Status
Not open for further replies.