The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

Re: Discourse

ProandCon, it's not easy for everyone regardless of which side of the discussion they're on. Like it or not, there has been name calling. While it might be easy to complain about the terms used here, I think it should be kept in mind that Victoria, Ann, and others have been called far worse. One quite derogatory term used against them was a five-letter word for a streetwalker. I've been called a pornographer by individuals on the PA forum. I know that it was sanctioned by the PA staff because they pointed out to another individual they also targeted with me in their response to him to remove his name that he shouldn't have been associated with me in any manner.

PAvidian may sound harsh, but it does unfortunately describe the cult environment that envelops much of the PA forum to which it was originally directed. I might even point out that P&Evidian has been used similarly as a epithet by a PA author even though there is no such cult operating at P&E.

By the way, a number of former PA authors refer to themselves as exPAtriates which is also fitting. Then again, we're all writers and we get creative with the written word.

Please keep in mind also that PA supporters have frequently entered other forums to spread misinformation and, in doing so, have threatened or insulted writers whose only crime was to spread some truth. So yes, words are going to fly because those are the things that writers know best. Doesn't mean they always know when to use those words, but they do know 'em.

Re: Discourse

Also Proandcon,

Remember that some on this board have referred to others as drunks and insinuated that they have fallen off the waggon when their arguments became weak. To a recovering alcoholic, that's even worse than being called a 5 letter word meaning street walker or a pornographer.

You see, it's okay for the advocates to name call authors because PA the company has libelled them. :smack

It's wrong no matter what side of the fence you are on. In fact, anyone who claims to be protecting victims should hold himself (or herself) at a *higher* standard than all others and therefore it is even an even greater wrong when they resort to name calling.

Re: Discourse

Since you're not a woman, I doubt you know what it feels like to be called a whore.

Calm

Please, everyone, a little calm. PA authors aren't the enemy. We are all writers, and deserve mutual support.

Reasoned discourse may help folks open their eyes; harsh words and personal attacks won't. Is it in anyone's interest to harden one another's attitudes?

Off topic

I agree ,...James...

This thread has gone on so long it's gotten off topic...
......

.....

perhaps maybe its time to close ...obviously the important parts were said in the first 50 pages.......

"all things.....' good or bad ' ......must come to an end"....

peace... ( or at least try )

Re: Off topic

Nah, not time to close it yet. We still have the Top Ten Big Spenders list to look forward to (the folks who'll have their books in that famous NYT ad), just for one example.

Re: Spelling

ProandCom, I'm just going to let it go. OK. I said it was nothing personal.

Jim, it's just incredible to me...

...the amounts of money rumoured that some of the PA authors are willing to spend to purchase enough of their own books to get into this New York Times ad. The sad thing is, even if it created some demand for their books, where would anyone go to purchase one? To me, this is one of the cruelest hoaxes that our friends over there in literary neverland have pulled to date.

Re: Jim, it's just incredible to me...

...to purchase enough of their own books to get into this New York Times ad.

Well, I hear there's a hard winter coming. If they laid in eight or ten cords of books they won't have to worry about heating their houses.

Seriously, you're right. Have they thought through exactly what the mechanism will be to get the books from their basement to a potential buyer's hands?

But I understand it. 'Deed I do. The thought in every author's heart is, "If only people would read it, they'd love my book as much as I do." They know that advertising is an important part of the mix -- but they don't know where and how to advertise books (an ad in Publishers Weekly before the book comes out is worth a dozen in the New York Times months later). Nor will they be able to get the books on the shelves other than the way they've already done it -- by going to bookstore owners in person, hat in hand, to beg.

An ad in the Times for an unknown would only have a marginal effect in any case, but the effect would rely on having the book on the shelves in the readers' local area.

We'll see. Using what crude tools I have here, I'll be tracking 'em.

Re: LaVern's book

I was wondering if....maybe the whole idea behind the poor editing is to so blacklist the authors that they are forced to go with PA for their next book? Just a thought.

PA at it again

I recieved an email from PA yesterday where they claim they still own my book rights, and will until such time I send them the paperwork. Apparently they are up to something. They can't use the same carrot twice. But as you can see here, this email states that I was released before any paperwork was sent to me. The paperwork was dated. August 2,2004. So this is earlier. The paperwork was just to gag me. But shouldn't be legal, as they had already released me.

Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 13:01:16 -0400
To: [email protected]
From: "Author Support" <[email protected]>
Subject: Night Travels of the Elven Vampire - contract termination

Plain Text Attachment [ Download File | Save to my Yahoo! Briefcase ]

Dear Ms. Ross:

Your contract has been terminated, and your book
removed from our listings
on 30 July 2004.

Thank You,
Author Support Team
[email protected]

Re: Discourse

>>Victoria,

Thanks for calling me a PAvidian.<<

Mr. Pro, where did you get the impression that I was addressing you? My post, which was attempting to make points you yourself have made under your own name and various aliases, did not reference you at all.

- Victoria

Re: PA at it again

LaVerne, if they terminated your side of the contract, they terminated their own as well. They don't own your book, and they don't own any other rights. All that remains is to formalize and tidy up the termination.

Are they by any chance telling you that they have a bunch of extra copies of your book lying around their office, and they want you to buy them before they'll revert the title, on threat of losing your copyright if you don't do it?

Re: Discourse

ProandCon, I don't like you. You're constantly unpleasant, and the conversation always gets murkier and less useful when you're around.

Discourse

ProandCon, I don't like you. You're constantly unpleasant, and the conversation always gets murkier and less useful when you're around.


HapiSofi,

What do you want me to do? Cry or be scared?

I can't say that I am impressed with you either. I've seen your posts on other boards. Almost put me to sleep!

I see you like to attack people when they speak up? Lay back on your sofa and leave me alone!

Re: Discourse

ProandCon, I don't like you. You're constantly unpleasant, and the conversation always gets murkier and less useful when you're around.


HapiSofi,

What do you want me to do? Cry or be scared?

I can't say that I am impressed with you either. I've seen your posts on other boards. Almost put me to sleep!

I see you like to attack people when they speak up? Lay back on your sofa and leave me alone!



Could we cut the crap and stay on topic, please? g

Re: Discourse

Ah. Confirmed.

Thanks, sucker.

Discourse

HapiSofi,

See you got back off that sofa too fast! Take a deep breath and slow down before you utter more trash. It is unbecoming to a person of your perceived stature.

You just think you have something confirmed.

The name calling does confirm that you are not the nice person you try to portray. All one has to do is read your posts on other boards to see the venom racing through your veins.

Re: Off topic

And you spend your time harassing people when you should be working on your next book. Or promoting your current one.
So not worth it.

Uh. Ok, back to the topic, please?

Off topic

Rissybug wrote:
And you spend your time harassing people when you should be working on your next book. Or promoting your current one.

I agree with you Rissybug about HapiSofi. It is not right for people like HapiSofi to be harassing me. He/she attacked me out of the blue.

I've never said a word to that particular person in the past. It is terrible how a person can get attacked on this board just by association.

I think a letter campaign should be started to get HapiSofi banned from this board (Heck maybe even from the internet) for attacking innocent people.

Here's an Idea..........

.......Getting back on the P.A...... complaints train..(which is headed for a cliff)

We've got almost 110..pages of this thread....

Maybe we should print it off... and send it to P.A. as a MS... and see if they publish it..
....of course we'll have to take our time and read the contract carefully.....:ha

Re: PA Misrepresents Itself

I haven't posted in this thread before, but I actually discovered the AW boards because of PA. An acquaintance of mine published a book; I bought one (exorbitantly priced) at a book signing. The book was so poorly written I knew it had to have been printed by a vanity press. Someone else thought so too and asked said acquaintance about it (probably not the best of manners!) and the author stated that he had received an advance and would receive royalties. I KNEW it couldn't be true (you should read this thing) and googled Publish America. Found the recommendation at P&E and followed links to this board. Was subsequently thrilled to find James MacDonald hanging around (I read fantasy) and stayed to lurk and learn in the Novels Writing thread, though I like to check down here to see how things are going.

What I have learned about Publish America has horrified me, and what horrifies me the most is that PA misrepresents itself to new writers -- luring them into a situation that for many causes tremendous grief -- and then is so terribly abusive toward them. Ugh.

I commend everyone who continues to warn writers about this company, and I wish all luck to those fighting to get rights back, etc.

P.S. This is a good discussion, and I think it's inevitable that (fairly) clever trolls will try to derail it.

And the writing style adds credence...

...that they are PA trolls...

Some things worth mentioning

I should like to remind everyone that PA has never sued Preditors & Editors (tm) and I have not heard of any writers yet who were sued by PA for telling the truth about PA. Then ask yourself why PA hasn't sued if its claims are true and we're telling lies? Wouldn't they stand to gain sympathy and status among writers, especially those who are unpublished? That, in itself, should tell all writers something important. PA can't sue us because truth is a defense against libel. PA doesn't want the truth put into evidence.

Regarding the email that PA sent, it probably is binding in and of itself. Why? First, because federal law was changed to recognize electronic signatures. Second, PA has already informed many of its writers that it prefers to communicate electronically. PA communicated in a manner that PA authors expect. I doubt that it matters that a section was signed rather than an individual's name since that is also typical in PA electronic communications.

Basically, what I'm stating here is that PA can't have it both ways. They can't refuse to sign correspondence in order to avoid being quoted so that they can later avoid responsibility by stating it was someone they fired and then claim that the reversion message wasn't signed so it isn't valid. I truly believe a court would take that into consideration and reach the same conclusion that all of their messages would have to carry the same weight. Based on that, I also believe you have grounds to take them to court for illegally selling your book after releasing your rights.

trolls?

Ed, you really think we have trolls or is it just one with multiple personalities?

Molly