The Daily Rejection
- Thread starter Devil Ledbetter
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Eat. Drink. Be merry. Even release the kraken if the mood hits you.
I certainly hope so.
Feel better soon, Liz
Congratulations, krash! I'm sure she's wonderful to work with and she seems fabulously professional!
(I've been thinking of emailing you the past week to find out the news--I figured I missed it somewhere. So glad to be in on the party for you here.)
(I've been thinking of emailing you the past week to find out the news--I figured I missed it somewhere. So glad to be in on the party for you here.
) 
Gods help me, I thought up four new Twitter pitches this morning, so I'm tempted by next week's PitMad. Will I never learn? *shakes head*
I'm not as bummed as I might have been by Pitch Madness. The odds were even lower than Pitch Wars (if you include the alternates). The choices were made with a view to what the specific agents were looking for (and my best match in that list already has my partial). And everyone involved said they had favorites that weren't picked. At least my prep work yielded me a better 35-word pitch. Or I think it's better, anyway.
I want to start querying in earnest, but I also want to wait for the feedback I've been promised by an agent who's had my partial and synopsis for three weeks. Talk about an approach/avoidance dilemma.
I could to start revising WIP in response to beta comments, but I have some readers who've yet to get back to me. (No one here
Sure hope that MFA guy is wrong about having to be serious about writing as a teenager. Yeesh, I missed that by decades.
Hathor you and I are on the same page, for pitchmadness the only agent that seemed a potential fit already has my full, and I want some responses from other agents before I start going query-crazy again. the problem is how slow the whole process can be. If I don't send a query or two out meanwhile, then you have this total quiet period of inactivity waiting for another response. Basically it's all about waiting and being productive meanwhile, I guess from what ChocholateChip Cookie said (ok is that your screen name- I just remember a cookie and am typing from memory and now I want a cookie).
Liz, feel better.
I find twitter contests more enjoyable than querying, but I also found it somewhat demeaning at first. I got over that as it's been useful to me.
Nova, you make a good point. Agents can be painfully slow... if they respond at all.
I can't forget the one who requested a full of my previous book in Nov 2013, expressing enthusiasm about my partial. I sent the full, but she emailed a few days later, concerned she hadn't seen it. So I sent again, and she claimed she would read it that weekend.
A month later, she emailed, saying she hoped I'd had a good Thanksgiving and she'd get back to me shortly.
In April, I nudged. So sorry, she said. She'd get to it as soon as possible. She even closed queries so she could catch up with her subs.
At this point, I still haven't heard back.
She's probably an outlier. But I've kicked myself over holding back on queries for some months because of her. Not that it made any difference on that particular book ultimately, but it was frustrating as hell.
I guess we need to find a good balancing point between querying too quickly and too slowly
I can't forget the one who requested a full of my previous book in Nov 2013, expressing enthusiasm about my partial. I sent the full, but she emailed a few days later, concerned she hadn't seen it. So I sent again, and she claimed she would read it that weekend.
A month later, she emailed, saying she hoped I'd had a good Thanksgiving and she'd get back to me shortly.
In April, I nudged. So sorry, she said. She'd get to it as soon as possible. She even closed queries so she could catch up with her subs.
At this point, I still haven't heard back.
She's probably an outlier. But I've kicked myself over holding back on queries for some months because of her. Not that it made any difference on that particular book ultimately, but it was frustrating as hell.
I guess we need to find a good balancing point between querying too quickly and too slowly
Oh, crud. Got a rejection from a publisher that cites grammar, but particularly content as reasons for rejection. That's the second time I've had that notice. I went scrambling back in my files and low and behold, I have two YA Screamcatcher fantasies and they are BOTH marked "Brand New Version." Or words to that effect. This will force me to pick one, edit the bejeezus out of it and erase the other so there is no mix-up. They said with and edit they would be delighted to look at it again. Obviously, I've got my files mixed up, even the dates of last openings are almost identical. What an oversight! I'm sicker than I thought.
Can anyone tell me, maybe using examples or a general explanation, of what this sentence means:
[FONT="]When creating a story you have to build the world, but slowly, introducing terms organically throughout the story.
[/FONT]
Can anyone tell me, maybe using examples or a general explanation, of what this sentence means:
[FONT="]When creating a story you have to build the world, but slowly, introducing terms organically throughout the story.
[/FONT]
Tri,
I'd read that sentence as saying that the reader shouldn't be overwhelmed by world-building details at the beginning. Rather, the details should be brought up when necessary to the story.
I think this is a matter of balance, myself. If I don't know enough about a world to understand what's happening or what the characters are saying or thinking, then the world-building is too slow. At least for me I just beta read the first 30 pages of someone's fantasy work today, and most of my comments were along the lines of: what is this? Why are they doing that or the other? But I wouldn't have enjoyed a major info dump, either.
Good luck straightening everything out. And get completely well, alreadyIf it makes you feel better, I mess up my files sometimes when I'm completely healthy!
I'd read that sentence as saying that the reader shouldn't be overwhelmed by world-building details at the beginning. Rather, the details should be brought up when necessary to the story.
I think this is a matter of balance, myself. If I don't know enough about a world to understand what's happening or what the characters are saying or thinking, then the world-building is too slow. At least for me
I just beta read the first 30 pages of someone's fantasy work today, and most of my comments were along the lines of: what is this? Why are they doing that or the other? But I wouldn't have enjoyed a major info dump, either.Good luck straightening everything out. And get completely well, already
If it makes you feel better, I mess up my files sometimes when I'm completely healthy!
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To me this means that introduce the things about your world in dribbles--not with a big info dump up front. Introduce novel terms and concepts bit by bit, when it's natural to do so, but make sure they're defined seamlessly or that the context makes it clear what they mean. The latter is especially challenging, because there's no one size fits all approach for context. The ability to learn new words and internalize concepts from context alone seems to be something some people do effortlessly, while others can't do it at all.
Thanks, Hathor. That's a pretty good analysis. I just might be throwing too much out there up front. I'll look for spots where I overwhelm. I had a feeling that was it, but wasn't too sure how it applied to my story. There is world-building up front, kind of a Narnia world--a portal fantasy.
tri
ETA: thanks, Roxx. Almost like characterization--you sprinkle and not dump.
tri
ETA: thanks, Roxx. Almost like characterization--you sprinkle and not dump.
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Before you go to all that work, here's a simple fix, Tri.
If you're using Word, open one of the two files in question. Go to "Tools", "Track Changes", "Compare Documents", and select the other file. That will highlight all the differences between the two.
I think what the bolded text means, is that you can't just shove your world in the reader's face. You have to tell a story first, and let the details of the world permeate your story, so the audience gets a feel for the world naturally. I can give you examples of each if you like.
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Avoid infodumps, and employ abeyance.
Abeyance means introducing a term in context, without pointedly explaining it. Example: "Derek mounted his gurjalek, intent on getting to the mountains before nightfall."
Experienced genre readers will figure out a few things from the clues—mount implies Derek is riding, so this must be a beast of burden of some kind. You don't need to go into detail to explain all of that, the context makes it clear enough for now. More detail about gurjaleks can be worked in as you go.
Orson Scott Card talks about abeyance in his book on writing SFF. There's a lot of articles out there about it with other examples.
And you can always put in some sensory details about the gurjalek. "He dug his fingers into its thick, brown fur and tried to ignore the stench emanating from the massive beast."
Hi, all!
Hathor - Wow, I had no idea you were still waiting on that response -- I remember she'd sounded super-excited about it
tri - As others have said, I would probably take that to mean that you're throwing too many of the world's unique elements (names, places, concepts) at the reader too quickly. I remember one (published!book I read in particular where the first chapter was so filled with jargon that I had no idea if the character was human, where she was, or why.
"The gurjalek was Derek's St. Michaelmas gift from his great-aunt Bertie and was every bit as slobbery and prone to nagging as the old crone herself."
(Just wanted to keep it going here a bit longer)
Hathor - Wow, I had no idea you were still waiting on that response -- I remember she'd sounded super-excited about it
tri - As others have said, I would probably take that to mean that you're throwing too many of the world's unique elements (names, places, concepts) at the reader too quickly. I remember one (published!book I read in particular where the first chapter was so filled with jargon that I had no idea if the character was human, where she was, or why.
"The gurjalek was Derek's St. Michaelmas gift from his great-aunt Bertie and was every bit as slobbery and prone to nagging as the old crone herself."
(Just wanted to keep it going here a bit longer
)
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"The gurjalek was Derek's St. Michaelmas gift from his great-aunt Bertie, and was every bit as slobbery and prone to nagging as the old crone herself."
(Just wanted to keep it going here a bit longer
You guys are so much fun.
Yep
From what I can tell from QT, she didn't respond to any subs during her multi-month querying hiatus. I reached the conclusion she was what your agent in a post on bad agents referred to an opportunist: one who doesn't read or offer unless a publisher or other agent is interested. She doesn't have much in the way of reported sales for the amount of time she's been in the business, and one ex-client gave me a detailed description of her lack of knowledge of the industry and publishing contracts. So I've decided against nudging again.Besides, the book probably was flawed, at least the slow beginning. (Now I wanted it that way, but no agent seemed to like my idea of gradually building tension.) And I never had my crack team of betas
read the work before I blew through every possible agent. If and when I get rep for another book, I plan to dig the thing out and revise it.
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Gah, Hathor! This is the one part of trying to become published that I really hate. Why can't there be some sort of standard in the industry where agents must respond to every full manuscript they request and within a certain time frame? If they stray from this policy, other agents and writers would frown on them and a well-earned poor reputation would follow.
But, no. Unfortunately, we're seeing this sort of thing more all the time, and instead of the exception, it's becoming the standard. I know how busy agents are, I do. They have to wear all kinds of hats and their days are already overflowing with duties. Their services are valuable and vital to writers and publishers.
But if they request a full manuscript, then they should give some sort of answer. Period.
But, no. Unfortunately, we're seeing this sort of thing more all the time, and instead of the exception, it's becoming the standard. I know how busy agents are, I do. They have to wear all kinds of hats and their days are already overflowing with duties. Their services are valuable and vital to writers and publishers.
But if they request a full manuscript, then they should give some sort of answer. Period.
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Don't let ex-MFA guy make you second guess yourself. He capitalized on the pretentious MFA jerkwad trope too much for me to take anything he said seriously. Besides, what qualifies as "serious" when you're a teenager? I think we harp too much on spending your formative years working toward a career you're not sure you're interested in instead of enjoying life and trying out new things. I "wrote" and was interested in creative writing as a teen but I had a lot of other responsibilities and interests that came first.
The MFA guy's attitude just screamed "bitter teacher". That happens most when an instructor isn't successful in their career, but it can also come out of a lack of patience with people who are learning and having to repeat the same information over and over.
Personally, I'd rather work with students—for whom I have no expectations of experience—than in a professional environment with people who should be experienced but either can't or won't do their jobs.
Personally, I'd rather work with students—for whom I have no expectations of experience—than in a professional environment with people who should be experienced but either can't or won't do their jobs.
Krash - CONGRATS! she reports Mauren Johnson right? So jelly.
JJ - agreed about the MFA guy. I think the core of it is that he's a pretentious jerk. Lol
JJ - agreed about the MFA guy. I think the core of it is that he's a pretentious jerk. Lol
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