The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

Re: Granny II

well, that was fast.

A person had posted that she spent $1,500 on books during the NYT promo, and when she got them they were washed out or missing one of the CMYK colors on the cover, so after a month of complaining to PA, they finally agreed to replace the books. She sent the 151 books back, and she hasn't heard anything since. This was two months ago, and her emails are being ignored and when she calls the same girl who answers the phone won't help her. Plus, she never got the royalties (as promised by the promotion) for the 150 books.

So, the score is PA: $1,500 + 151 books + @$100 in royalties. PA writer lady (sorry if you're reading this, I forgot your name): 0.

Re: Granny II

Here's the post - saved it because I knew it would leave soon:

Although I have been following this message board for a while this is my first posting. My book "Emotional Anesthesia" was published by PA in July 2004. At first things were great, I was so excited about it all. When I recieved my author copies I thought PA did a wonderful job.
...Then it all went down hill and I am wondering if anyone has had a similar situation and what they did about it.
...Here goes... I ordered 151 books when they had the NY times promotion where books the author bought were going to go toward royalty. First of all, they were supposed to be shipped to my sister in NJ, but that was the least of my worries...
Not only were they shipped wrong but they were VERY different from the author copies, with over-exposed flourescent colors and a red blotchy picture of me on the back.
Anyway, this was the end of July, so I called them many,many times and finally they said they would take them back. UPS picked them up and it has been over TWO months since they got them. When I call I always talk to the same girl who says she is not authorized to put me in touch with management and still no decision has been made. Needless to say I am upset and now they have had my 1500 dollars and I have no books at all. And of course I never did recieve royalties on that order.
I really was having a great experience with PA but now I am so frustrated I want to sceam.
Can anyone relate? Where do I go from here without taking legal action?

Thanks for letting me vent!
Tamara

Click to expand...

Re: PA Post

Actually if you read the responses to that post, I doubt that they would want to take it off. The others blast that person for complaining about it on that board.

Just a thought.

Re: PA Post

Where do I go from here without taking legal action?

Nowhere. Take legal action.

Please note, though, that the promotion that granted "royalties" for author self-purchases ended before the NYTBR promotion began.

[update]

I just recalled, there were two NYTBR promotional periods. The first had royalties, and was in celebration of the "partnership" with the NYT. The second, without royalties (and also without a discount), came a month later, and would lead to being listed in that NYTBR ad.

Oh -- and if any PA authors happen to be lurking, could you please tell Tamara that the answers to her questions are here?

Oh God, check this thread out...

...I may have this wrong, but it looks to me like a PA author complained about the "More Buying Choices" part of their Amazon.com page, the place where sellers other than Amazon can list new and used books...

www.publishamerica.com/cg...e/6843.htm

Re: Oh God, check this thread out...

...I may have this wrong, but it looks to me like a PA author complained about the "More Buying Choices" part of their Amazon.com page, the place where sellers other than Amazon can list new and used books...

Click to expand...

To be fair, it's not just PA authors who are upset about that. There are a lot of authors who have protested the way Amazon lists new and used copies on the same page. Also, one of the major writers' organizations lodged a protest. (BTW not all authors were upset about this.)

In the thread, though, it seems the author's main complaint was that someone was listing a large number of her titles for sale used, and all from the same source. If that's true, that sounds like a weird form of cyberstalking.

Re: Did ya'll see this???

As an author, I'd be very annoyed by the "buy more here" shown up on my product page. But as a buyer, I appreciate that. So it's a weird thing...

Re: Is Marti's site down?

Anne, if memory servers me correctly Marti shut down the site due to financial difficulties. She had a post about a month ago on one of the PA boards.

Monique

Re: Is Marti's site down?

Anne, if memory servers me correctly Marti shut down the site due to financial difficulties. She had a post about a month ago on one of the PA boards.

Click to expand...

That truly sucks. :|

Re: Did ya'll see this???

As an author, I'd be very annoyed by the "buy more here" shown up on my product page.

Why? Every copy that's sold, I've been paid for (usually in advance). Long before a book becomes "used" I get my percentage of the cover price.

<HR>

Meanwhile....

What are the odds that "Pete" <a href="http://www.journalscape.com/keithsnyder/2003-12-02-12:48" target="_new">here</a> is the same person as "Carl Ross" <a href="http://www.publishersweekly.com/index.asp?layout=talkBackCommentsFull&talk_back_header_id=1307&articleid=CA481863&starting=1" target="_new">here</a>?

Me, I'd say it's a pretty good chance.

What are the odds that the statement "Besides, I really am not interested in defending PA, I have not even used them, I just wanted to be fair to something I do not have experience with, " has even one word of truth in it?

Re: Did ya'll see this???

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>What are the odds that "Pete" here is the same person as "Carl Ross" here?<hr></blockquote>
Well, if he starts bashing Behler without any provocation, we'll have our answer, eh? Heh, heh. <img border=0 src="http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif" />

Let's take a look at a PA book sample

I've spent weeks reading posts about PA and PA books of dubious quality, but I have to be honest and admit that I have not read any PA books. Perhaps many are fantastic literature, and perhaps many are. . . . not. Besides, I'm one of those book-buyers who probably won't spend over $20 for a fiction work by an author I've never heard of, unless the book has been recommended.

Thanks to a link provided in James MacDonald's above post, I had an opportunity to read a sample chapter of a PA author's book. Since I'm at work right now, and am supposed to be actually working, I haven't had the opportunity to read the entire thing, but I did read the first couple paragraphs and skim the rest. Later maybe I can read all of it.

For what it's worth, I think the editing needs a lot of work. The very first two sentences use "which" in a way I just don't like to see in a "published" book. This can be fixed, though, and a rewrite would definitely improve it.

Is this a good book? I have no idea, but after reading what I did read, I probably wouldn't want to buy it myself. I could be wrong though, this could be a great piece of literature.

But no one will ever know, since it was published by PA.


underthecity

Re: Did ya'll see this???

Tamara questions why her post was removed toward the bottom of this post: www.publishamerica.com/cg...e/6833.htm

The replies to her are telling....

Re: Let's take a look at a PA book sample

If you want to read samples of PA books, go <a href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=publishamerica+%22sample+chapter%22&btnG=Google+Search" target="_new">here</a>.

Let's take a look at a PA book sample

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>For what it's worth, I think the writing needs a lot of work. The very first two sentences use "which" in a way I just don't like to see in a "published" book. This can be fixed, though, and a rewrite would definitely improve it.<hr></blockquote>
Normally, this isn't something I'd respond to, but C.J. is one of our authors and we're very proud of her work with us. I think this is a prime example of why editing is so vital in the publishing business. "Cocodrie" is a terrific story that definitely needed the benefits of proper editing, something we all can agree she was denied. Her second book that we published is equally wonderful. Difference is, our editors worked long and hard with the author over developmental and copyediting issues to make her story shine. We're extremely proud of the results.

I don't agree with scrutinizing someone's work in the manner this has taken because it smacks of laughing at them behind their backs. Sorry, but to me, it just has that flavor. I realize that when someone publishes a book it's much the same as sticking their big toe out on the freeway. It may get run over. I have no problem with that. But these comments on the board aren't for the purpose of reviewing C.J.'s book, but to denigrate the publisher.

Yes, anyone is free to come back at me and scream that I have a vested interest in this author and that's the impetus behind my comments, and you'd all be right. But I also hope the bigger lesson comes through that it's okay to fault any publisher for their shortcomings. We're fair game. But to chide a new author strikes me as hitting below the belt.

Just my two cents

Re: Let's take a look at a PA book sample

Lynn, I think the point wasn't that C.J. is a bad author, but rather that PA doesn't edit.

Which we know, but some still deny.

I'm sorry for the people who are standing next to the target when folks are throwing eggs. Sometimes they get spattered too. Few of us would like to have our unedited first drafts examined by random strangers; few of us published outside of the world of the vanity press will suffer that fate.

In the great scheme of things most of the readers walking through bookstores will never have heard of her previous effort, or be aware of the comments here. The best thing you can do for her now is get her book into a slew of bookstores and sell a ton of copies.

<HR>

Meanwhile, Pete's language is breaking down in the same way Carl's did. Counting the bizarre use of the word "paraphrase," I'd say it's a match.

Re: Let's take a look at a PA book sample

Hi Lynn,
I certainly did not mean to offend anyone by my post, and I apologize if I have done so.

The point I wanted to make with the post is that I have not personally read a PA book, and this was the first excerpt of one I had come across. And I would guess that many other posters here have not read a PA book either, so I brought one to the table.

And CJ's book was merely an example out of the over 10,000 other possible examples.

I tried to be very neutral with my comments, and tried not to "chide" the author in any way, and even admitted up front that I did not read the entire book or even the entire sample. But from what I did read, it didn't seem like my kinda book.

As I pointed out, it looked as though it needs editing, which was the point I was making. I wasn't commenting on style, storytelling or anything else, just editing, and the fact I will never see it at my local B&N.

Lynn, please tell us the approach you took with publishing CJ's second book, and how it was improved upon over how PA handled the first.

UPDATE: It just occurred to me that my post focusing on this one author out of the over 10,000 was not a good idea.
Therefore, I have edited the original post to exclude references to it.

Again, let me apologize, it was a mistake.

underthecity

Re: Let's take a look at a PA book sample

And I would guess that many other posters here have not read a PA book either, so I brought one to the table.

I have read two entire PA books, and samples from many others.

My sympathies are entirely with the authors.

<HR>

A word for all writers here: Responding in any way to negative reviews is sometimes called the ABM: the Author's Big Mistake.

Please, listen to your old Uncle Jim. No matter what the temptation, no matter how wittily or how vividly you can phrase your response, don't do it. I've never seen good come from responding to negative reviews.

Re: Let's take a look at a PA book sample

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I'm sorry for the people who are standing next to the target when folks are throwing eggs. Sometimes they get spattered too.<hr></blockquote>
Well said, Jim, second-hand spatter is an occupational hazard for the PA author. This is one of the prime reasons posts pop up periodically reminding everyone to keep the main problem (lack of editing) in sight, and avoid beating up the authors. They're strictly the by-product of a very imperfect company. Mind you, I'm only talking about the innocent authors here, not the shills. I see this instance with Cora as a prime example of diverting from the main course, which is PA. Cora and other PA authors are hors d'oeuvres that I feel should be left alone unless they come trolling.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>The best thing you can do for her now is get her book into a slew of bookstores and sell a ton of copies.<hr></blockquote>
Hoo wee, you aren't kidding. That's what we spend all of our marketing time doing. Getting shelf space is an uphill battle for little guys like us, but that's why we're working so hard to get reviews by PW and the like.

Re: Let's take a look at a PA book sample

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I certainly did not mean to offend anyone by my post, and I apologize if I have done so.<hr></blockquote>
Many kind thanks, utc (may I be informal?<img border=0 src="http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/tongue.gif" />) I appreciate your sentiments. I've read your posts long enough to know that you never denigrate anyone. I just saw this small door opening with Cora's book and became concerned that it would serve as an inviting invitation to a feeding frenzy by those who don't share your tact. You were absolutely right in pointing out the weaknesses of the writing and I agreed wholeheartedly.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Lynn, please tell us the approach you took with publishing CJ's second book, and how it was improved upon over how PA handled the first.<hr></blockquote>

The approach we take is the same with every author we sign. The process begins with the author's editor doing a full and methodical reading of the manuscript. At this time the developmental issues are dealt with and re-writes go back and forth until the editor and author sign off on them. This can take months sometimes.

Next comes copy-editing, and the same process ensues; the manuscript goes back and forth between editor and author.

Once it is signed off, it goes to formatting the manuscript into book layout . While formatting, the manuscript is also scrutinized by another set of eyes and changes are suggested. The manuscript then is put into a PDF and sent to the author for a hard read. This is so the author may read the final version and seek out anything three sets of eyes may have missed. Sounds incredible that it could happen at that point, but it does.

Spelling, punctuation, formatting errrors and the insidious "Oh my God, I really need that changed!" are all dealt with at this point. No further writing may be done, but the doors are always open to changes. If the changes are big enough, the whole thing goes back into editing. A royal pain, but worth it.

The hard read stage can last for a number of weeks until everyone is satisfied that it's clean. Only then do we go for galleys. We get a set and the author gets a set. If there's anything that we (Behler) failed to change, we pay for a new file to go to the printer so that only a clean book will go to print run.

We make the author re-read the book one last time. If all is well, we go to print run. This is probably more information than you wanted to hear, but I can attest to the fact that these steps we take in our editing and production are are far different than the ones PA employ.

Re: Meanwhile, at PA

<BLOCKQUOTE>
AnthonyWDownen



12/05/2004
17:13:52
Subject: My book is now a collectable?!?


Message:
Okay, it was decided that there was an issue with my current coverart and both myself and PA have decided that it must be changed... can't be specific. But now I just got my first order of 100 copies in with a cover that will not be printed again... I'm at a loss of what to do with them or if I should market at a higher cost than retail at my signings next month because of it... Or maybe put a discount on it and use it as a selling point... What would you do?

Anthony W Downen
www.geocities.com/theforgottenscribes/Main.html
The Forgotten Scribes
</BLOCKQUOTE>

<A href="http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/main/11292.htm" target="_new">My book is now a collectable?!?</a>

Here's what the <a href="http://images.amazon.com/images/P/1413730841.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg" target="_new">cover looks like right now</a> over at Amazon. I don't know if this is the cover that's on the books he has in hand.

Another poster in that thread asks if the problem is with copyright, but Anthony doesn't answer that.

So ... let's assume that it is a copyright problem. What can Tony do? He's stuck with a bill for a thousand bucks on books that he can't (legally) sell.

Here's one possible solution:

1. Get a new cover design. (Lots of pre-Raphaelite or Ivan Bilibin pictures are available in the public domain; PhotoShop will let you add text.)

2. Print 'em full size using a good-quality color printer.

3. Get some of that 3M spray adhesive. Spray, stick, trim carefully using a sharp blade and a steel straightedge.

I know someone who did colored business cards that way. When he was finished, you couldn't tell that the colored surface and the base stock had ever been two separate sheets of paper.

4. Optionally, lay on some self-adhesive plastic lamination.

They'll probably look wonky, but they'll be legally saleable.

Time consuming and expensive this may be, but better than storing a thousand bucks worth of mulch in your garage.

Re: Did ya'll see this???

What are the odds that "Pete" here is the same person as "Carl Ross" here?

Click to expand...

That guy LOVES his capitals, doesn't he? :lol

I like the way he responded to a comment from Teresa Nielsen Hayden with "If you zap people for posting differing opinions, you bloggers need thicker skin." Well, techincally she is a blogger because she does have a blog. But she is also a respected pro editor.

And the comment "The door may say AUTHOR'S ENTRANCE but unless you are already a published author, or a celebrity, or someone with his/her 15 mins of fame (such as the hiker that cut off his arm), getting through that door is VERY difficult!" is the same old same old. zzz It's either a lie put forth by someone who wants to gather more sheep into the fold or a lie believed by one of the sheep.

There are new authors in my writing community who have gotten published this year, and one was published by Bantam Spectra in October (Ghosts in the Snow). You can bet she didn't have to pay a cent to get published. Oh, and believe me, her editor actually edited her work. This didn't mean her editor just checked spelling and tweaked her grammar -- structural changes were suggested, and made. So much for the old "editors don't work with new writers" line...

My oh my oh my . . .

I have just finished reading this entire thread.

The. Entire. Thread.

It took me several days to do it. I was completely hooked, as it contains some of my favorite message board spectator sports--scam busting, trolling, line by line refutations, high drama and occasional low insults.

Here's my story--a gal on a message board I frequent (under another persona) was announcing the imminent publication of her book of poetry. Knowing that she had also been taken in by the International Library of Poetry scam, some people I know asked for the publisher name, did an investigation and gave her the bad news. In the course of investigating, they found this thread.

So here I am. My general assessment is that PA is to the novel what The International Library of Poetry (or whatever they're calling themselves this week) is to poems. They feed off of the thrill of publication and make an appalling amount of money doing it. What they do may not technically be illegal but it's not terribly moral from my point of view.

SimonSays--there's one point you keep bringing up that I'd like to address. You seem to feel that writing talent is some kind of innate thing that only a few blessed people have and everybody else shouldn't even try. Respectfully, I disagree. I go by Brenda Ueland's assertion that "Everybody is talented, original and has something important to say." Comparing writers to athletes ignores the distinction that writing is language and language is learned. Writing is a skill that can (and I believe should) be developed with practice and study.

We can't all be bestselling authors, any more than we can all be rock stars. But that certainly doesn't mean that the fruit of our creativity is somehow unworthy. Not by a long shot.

'shay

The year is almost over....

I know I will get flack for this, but 178, repeat 178 pages dedicated to PA? It reminds me of the old joke about the psycho hotline voicemail where compulsive obsessives are told to hit '1' repeatedly.

By now we ALL know PA sucks. WE all know the reasons--the deceptions, the lies etc etc. Anybody performing even the most cursory web search will find enough info to let them know PA is not a real publisher.

Can't we let this go, guys? Why keep thses b******ds at the top of the boards. Why expend so much energy on these losers? There are MUCH more positive things to do such as write. There are many good writers wasting energy on this forum that I would like to see passing on their expereinces and knowledge about the writing craft.

I realize this will go ignored and the daily grind of reading the PA boards for nonse will continue, but hey, freedom of speech. It is a right we need to use to uphold.

All the best for the holiday season and I hope we all enjoy success in 'o5.

Cheers

Finer

Re: The year is almost over....

Just for your benefit, finerthingsinlife, I will restate something. I have received many emails from authors wanting to know whether a publisher or agent was okay since the websites they found listing problems with the publisher or agent's were dated from over a year earlier or more.

If a business was and remains predatory, then it deserves to have a top listing in these warnings. To let the listings for the worst sink into the background is not only wrong, but it helps the predators gain more victims.