The Next Circle of Hell

YAwriter72 said:

I have to say that this is one of the perks I love most about having an agent. All the angst about "Is it long enough" "Is it good enough" "Is my voice strong enough" is gone now.

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SO true. I have a friend, she's a brilliant YA writer, got thru to the final round of a comp, had 6 great agents read her full when querying but still no agent. And cos of that (plus a nasty reader report from one agent who had her full) she really really struggles with confidence and questions everything.

As for that first draft, cos the first novel I ever wrote (and the one on sub or due to be) was 90k first draft, I presumed it'd be the same for the next novel. But I finished at 50k. Mebbe it's just what the story calls for? Anyway, been looking over stuff today and I have to add stuff anyway, the MCs are a little one-dimensional right now (which happens with my 1st drafts) so sure I'll be adding 60k.

Book's so different from book on sub tho. If book on sub doesn't sell, that's good. If it does sell, what happens to this book?

Tasmin21 said:

I write short, too. My first drafts are typically about 75% of what I want my finished total to be. (I don't plan it that way, it just happens. Weird!) I don't worry about it anymore, I just accept that that's how I write, and plan for it.

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I kind of wish I could write short. The majority of my manuscripts end up close to the 100k mark (which is okay for adult novels). And somehow they all seem to get longer as they go through editing with my editor. THREE DAYS is 100k. The sequel is 102k and climbing. Book three hasn't even been through betaing and my agent yet, but it's sitting at 105k. Yeesh.

Somehow this summer I managed to write a new novel that was only 80k. It felt short, because I'm used to writing longer, but the length was actually perfect for that story.

TrixieLox said:

Book's so different from book on sub tho. If book on sub doesn't sell, that's good. If it does sell, what happens to this book?

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Have you talked to your agent about it? If the first book doesn't sell right now, it may sell somewhere down the line after you've sold other projects. Some things just aren't marketable at certain times and become marketable later.

Woke up to what my agent referred to as "harsh" rejection from the Biggest Possible Editor in my inbox. It was actually exactly the kind of pass I expected to get and I liked it better than the "form" type pass I got. Is that strange?

If "harsh" means specific and constructive, there's nothing weird about preferring that to a form rejection.

It was specific, but I don't think I'd call it constructive, since I'd have to write a very different novel in order to eliminate the things she had problems with. She didn't say anything that surprised me, though. This story doesn't fit neatly into a genre, and I knew that.

Bummer! And you are getting some fast response! Man.

Okay, sent first 30 pages to new book idea to agent man this morning. We'll see if he thinks it has potential and if I should write it. I hope so, I'm kinda liking the MC in this one!! (That and the fact that NOTHING else is talking to me right now)

Wordwrestler said:

It was specific, but I don't think I'd call it constructive, since I'd have to write a very different novel in order to eliminate the things she had problems with. She didn't say anything that surprised me, though. This story doesn't fit neatly into a genre, and I knew that.

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WW, sorry about the rejection, but I agree that specifics are better to receive than a vague "no." Did your agent suggest any different tactics as a result of the latest R? Just wondering how much the submission strategy changes or adapts as rejections start coming in.

Hoping your next update holds some good news to share!!

Mel A. said:

WW, sorry about the rejection, but I agree that specifics are better to receive than a vague "no." Did your agent suggest any different tactics as a result of the latest R? Just wondering how much the submission strategy changes or adapts as rejections start coming in.

Hoping your next update holds some good news to share!!

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No, it's only the second pass, and the editor's response was predictable to me, so I'm sure my agent expected to hear the same thing from some of the editors we're subbing to as well. I'm hoping others will see it differently, see the upside of its quirks.

YAwriter72 said:

Bummer! And you are getting some fast response! Man.

Okay, sent first 30 pages to new book idea to agent man this morning. We'll see if he thinks it has potential and if I should write it. I hope so, I'm kinda liking the MC in this one!! (That and the fact that NOTHING else is talking to me right now)

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As for fast responses, yes, if I'm going to get rejected, I'd rather they came quickly.

Here's hoping your agent loves your new idea! I'm still waiting for feedback on my newest ms.

Hey everyone,

My computer has been very sick, so I've had to cut out my AW time. Just thought I'd pop in. Sorry to hear about the rejections. As for me, I've gotten 8 rejections since being on sub Sept. 17. So super-fast but depressing. The rejections were all glowing, calling the book beautiful, the humor wonderful and the characters quirky. A few of them were really close it sounded like but mentioned the tough market etc (I'm literary fiction). Man they were nice passes, the kind you want to put on the back of your book when it does sell. My favorite said that I have a "wicked imagination, a wry sense of humor and a darkness that is strangely compelling" that made me feel wonderful. The only thing is, that they all seem to be passing for different reasons, didn't relate to the characters, the narration choppy, the arc off, and one just said she loved everything about it but felt she had to be absurdly cautious given the times.

I wish it was like a universal complaint and I could fix it and sell the darn thing. Oh well. I have 4 more editors reading it on this round and then we move on to round 2.

What a grueling journey we're all on! Here's hoping we get good news soon!!!

Molly

Oh, Molly, that is tough! Still, it sounds like you've written a beautiful story and it only takes one "yes!"

Molly, sounds like you and me are in the same boat. A lot of positive comments but no sale. And the criticism is not lining up from editor to editor. I'm also litfic. It is frustrating because I suspect there's a rewrite to be done, but the comments just aren't pointing in a consistent direction.

WW, sorry about the R. But I agree that it is better to get a sense that the book was read (even if the response was harsh) rather than a form.

That said, I'm thinking I need to adjust my definition of "form" in terms of editor rejections. Every single editor rejection I've gotten has had at least one or two sentences specific to my book, even if the comments were generically unhelpful at best. I'm thinking that is the editor version of "form" rejection. With agents and litmags, form rejects don't even bother to make you think the piece was read. But with editors, at least in my experience, I get the sense from the rejections that none of them want my agent to think the book was not considered seriously. Therefore, they drop in a specific detail about something they liked and try to quantify why they're not buying it.

Personalized forms? Am I making any sense? Is that what everyone is getting?

I only got one pass that was a total "form" (i.e., short, not specific and unhelpful). I did have one or two others where I had to wonder if the editor had actually read the book. Most were pretty specific, and often completely contradicted each other (helpful that).

I learned a few things through the process. First is that you really can't pay too much attention to any one individual pass - wait till you start hearing the same criticisms a few times (or at least versions of the same criticisms). The other, yeah, it's highly subjective.

One thing Agent said that was really helpful to me -- same "quirkiness" and uniqueness that made the book a tough sell was also what would ultimately sell it.

Another thing was after it did sell, we got emails from editors who had passed who wanted to buy it but were shot down up the food chain. One of these I never would have guessed from the pass (which was not that flattering). I'd already known of a couple of cases where the book had gone to second readers and ultimately the answer was "no." I was told pretty much flat out that in another economic climate, some of these "no's" would have been offers. Adult fiction is just a tough sell right now.

So I guess what I'm saying is, hang in there, and don't take any one pass to heart. It may not reflect what another reader will think, and it may not even be what that editor thinks.

Pull up a chair, pour yourself a tall one and hang in there.

Hugs to WW and Molly!

Other Lisa said:

One thing Agent said that was really helpful to me -- same "quirkiness" and uniqueness that made the book a tough sell was also what would ultimately sell it.

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This is very encouraging! Thanks for sharing your experience, Lisa. I know it was a long road for you getting that sale. How did you stay sane?

Wordwrestler said:

This is very encouraging! Thanks for sharing your experience, Lisa. I know it was a long road for you getting that sale. How did you stay sane?

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Er, who said anything about staying sane?

Truthfully, it was a long and at times grueling process, but as I've said before, I didn't find it nearly as psychically disturbing as when I was agent-hunting -- I actually didn't query many agents before finding one, but I think there was sort of a whole life of not being able to break through to that professional level with anything I was doing creatively. Having the agent was the validation I needed to keep going, that I wasn't completely crazy for doing what I was trying to do.

There were a couple of times during the sub process - like, let's see, IIRC, the three editorial passes in two days, that was a drag...and the worst was one that came very very close, and I knew that as it was happening...so when they said no it was pretty crushing (the others that were close I didn't really know about till after they passed or when the book sold). And then a couple where the passes were so glowing, it was like, "well, what did I need to do to make you BUY it, then?" I mean, when people don't really seem to like what you did or get what you did, that's easier to accept in some ways.

It is, as a writer friend of mine is wont to say, a brutal business.

Sorry about the Rs, WW and Molly.

Lisa, you're right, it's still a lot better than the agent search, when you wonder if you're ever going to make it, or if you'll be one of those authors who doesn't get their big break until decades after starting the search, and when you struggle to justify all the time you spend writing, etc. I do feel much less alone and hopeless about the whole thing.

It's a different kind of agony to have that carrot dangling closer, but better than no carrot at all.

I guess it's because at least you SEE the carrot and have some reasonable assurance of its existence...

Other Lisa said:

I guess it's because at least you SEE the carrot and have some reasonable assurance of its existence...

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Yes, exactly.

WW, you are getting really fast responses which suggests editors really respect your agent so that's good. Are they Rs on fulls or the pitch?

Just read an agent blog saying editors were being inundated with books like mine right now (UF / paranormal romances) and are getting thoroughly bored with them. *sigh*

Trixie, they're full rejections.

As for your novel, there's a reason why your genre is so popular, and that's going to work in your favor once you're published. And there's a reason your agent picked you and your novel, while she was no doubt inundated with manuscripts in your genre, too.

Wordwrestler said:

Trixie, they're full rejections.

As for your novel, there's a reason why your genre is so popular, and that's going to work in your favor once you're published. And there's a reason your agent picked you and your novel, while she was no doubt inundated with manuscripts in your genre, too.

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QFT