The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

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darbyj

FM

I just meant that they don't need to call themselves a traditional publisher to get folks to sign up. Their banner says something like: we treat our authors the old fashioned way, we pay them. That's fine, because it's true. They might not pay as much an advance, but they do pay. You might have a more difficult time getting the book to sell, but if it sells, you do get the royalty.

I didn't go in thinking PA was traditional and was so intimidated by attempting to go the traditional route and SO wanted to see my book in print that I went. But I think some people sign up thinking they are traditional because of all the hype the read on the MB, and I don't think that's right.

Lisa
 

astonwest

Re: Careful, CJ

"This one is no different than the one at PA."

Be wary, there...you've seen what they do to folks who post to their board, and then post (what can somehow be construed as slamming PA) on others...calling PA a cult (which you just did) might get HB to call for you to walk the plank...

but then you've already told us all that you don't care what they think...but I still don't think you'll be posting those statements about PA being a cult on their board...

:hat
Big Daddy West
 

DaveKuzminski

Cults and other inaccuracies

So far, you haven't proved me wrong. You do misquote others, including me. For instance, I have never called PublishAmerica a cult though you put that statement into your response directed at me in a feeble attempt to tag me as the originator.

Since you want to bring religion into the fray, let's ask how moral you are. Have you helped your fellow humans? Do you avoid telling lies that would harm others? Do you offer assistance to those in need? OR DO YOU MERELY WALK AROUND LIKE A BIGOT TELLING OTHERS THEY'RE GOING TO HELL?

Case in point? You stated it yourself: "Nor would I suggest that people like Dave and Victoria and Ann quit giving out warnings just because folks are still getting tricked into believing PA or poetry.com hype and double talk."

See, this is the problem right here. I'm having conversation (a) while you're stuck in conversation (b).

That's your evidence? No, Dodgem James, you're the one ignoring the tricks and double talk instead of doing the morally right thing for those who are innocent. Don't tell me you're afraid of having your book derailed by your publisher. You have plenty of opportunities to spread the truth. All you have to do is sign on under an alias. Oh! Excuse me, you already do. Problem is, you don't spread the truth. You only talk about how smart you were in negotiating with your publisher in obtaining concessions that the other authors didn't. Uh, what were those concessions again? Wasn't one supposed to be concerning price?

No, the truth is that you're a bigot and a hypocrite who resorts to religion when his logic reveals weakness in his side of a discussion. You can't even stay on topic when you argue.

Case in point: Dodgem James stated: I have always believed that people should know exactly what PA is before signing their contract, and I just can't agree with you that warning people of sex scenes in PA books is really a mark against the company.

First of all, you should restrict the subject of a sentence to one topic. You're supposed to be a writer and understand that. Furthermore, having made that poor sentence, what you fail to point out is that those first comments were made by individuals representing the publisher. So far, no one has located any books written by that poster and published by that publisher. You also conveniently ignore the posted proof that the publisher deliberately targeted Dave Bowlin and myself thereby admitting to having posted those words. Of course, that I pointed out in a posting that they were equally vulnerable makes me the heavy. No, Dodgem James, it doesn't. What I pointed out in a speculative moment was that I ought to do that. My statement effectively pointed out to them that some things they might do to me can be turned against them. That, in turn, caused them to cease some of those smear tactics. Why? Because they know I won't back down.

Anyway, I'm really getting tired of pointing out how lame your arguments are. I recommend you ask Mr. Meiners to send in another clown. You're no longer entertaining.
 

FM St George

Re: Cults and other inaccuracies

sorry, DJ - you'll have a hard time convincing anyone that this board is as restrictive and cultish as the PA boards.

and that just lowers your integrity that much further with the average reader who sees people being banned left and right without a comment at PA and sees us chatting here.

as it stands, you obviously regret your decision to stay with PA but don't have the balls to mention it out loud for fear of losing what little sales you already have with PA. Fine, but don't think that walking this middle of the road will work for you forever - you still avoid the most basic of questions and continue to carry the PA party line. I've seen very little from you on the PA boards disputing their claims.

of course, I only have a college diploma so I'm unqualified under your standards to say this, so...

*chuckles*
 

aka eraser

CJ didn't answer....again

Canada James said:

"I never said PA was a first-choice publisher. I said they were a gateway and nothing more."

I asked: "Have you ever said that on the PA message boards?"

CJ's response of "worse than that" doesn't answer the question.

It only requires a simple "yes" or "no."

I think we all know the answer though. After all, CJ still has posting privileges on the PA boards.
 

XThe NavigatorX

Re: CJ didn't answer....again

I found this interesting. It seems BN has a blanket no PA books policy. I know someone else who was accepted into the BN small press program with a non-PA, no-returns lightning source book, so it's not just against the POD process.

www.publishamerica.com/cg...n/8977.htm
 

astonwest

Re: B&N rules

I believe I posted info from the B&N fact sheet for small presses previously...they no longer have a 'no POD' blanket statement, but the rules they do have certainly preclude a majority of POD books...PA in particular...

Personally, I don't think it's solely a 'conspiracy' against PA as the folks over yonder would like to believe...mainly, the rules PA sets up precludes them from getting in the door on a national basis...

I would love to hear how this friend of yours was able to get in...

pub43.ezboard.com/fabsolu...&index=133

(This contains both info from Waldenbooks as well as B&N)
 

XThe NavigatorX

Re: B&N rules

His publisher was purchasing a few full-page ads in some upcoming genre magazines, I believe, and he included a pretty extensive marketing plan + he had some endorsements from larger names.
 

FM St George

ooh... goody!

why, look what popped into my mailbox (and all the other PA authors) today!

www.publishamerica.com/cg...al/608.htm

tell ya, this is the biggest scam I've heard yet - why the HELL would you buy your own books when PA is supposed to be selling them for you???

*shakes head*
 

Canada James

And You Guys Prefer Dave?

"So far, you haven't proved me wrong. You do misquote others, including me. For instance, I have never called PublishAmerica a cult though you put that statement into your response directed at me in a feeble attempt to tag me as the originator."

If I "tagged" you as the originator that was my mistake. No conspiracy.

"That's your evidence? No, Dodgem James, you're the one ignoring the tricks and double talk instead of doing the morally right thing for those who are innocent."

You don't know me well enough to make that claim. Period.

"No, the truth is that you're a bigot and a hypocrite who resorts to religion when his logic reveals weakness in his side of a discussion. You can't even stay on topic when you argue."

I brought up the religion comment as an illustration. You seem to get in quite a snit when religion is brought up. Issues?

"You only talk about how smart you were in negotiating with your publisher in obtaining concessions that the other authors didn't."

I did much more than that. I would explain further but we're getting off topic.

"First of all, you should restrict the subject of a sentence to one topic."

There were two clauses there, each divided by a comma. Both had to do with the other.

"Furthermore, having made that poor sentence, what you fail to point out is that those first comments were made by individuals representing the publisher."

Your warning isn't against the publisher, it's against the innocent authors*. I've always been on their side.

*not the authors who posted the comments, which I have publicly been against from the get go. The authors mentioned here are the rest of the PA bunch that don't deserve the kind of treatment Dave is capable of dishing out. See his last post for more details of said treatment.

"Do you offer assistance to those in need? OR DO YOU MERELY WALK AROUND LIKE A BIGOT TELLING OTHERS THEY'RE GOING TO HELL?"

Wow. And all you people out there take this man's side over mine?
The blind cult marches on (glad he isn't my leader).

Let's see now: I'm a dodger, a liar, immoral, a bigot, I can't write, I misquote people, my logic is fishy...

Hey, Dave, would you evaluate my manuscript for me? I'm sure you'd give me an honest critique.

Canada James
 

Canada James

subject

Jenna:
"We still let our non-complaints post...

Until they seriously get on my nerves, that is. And sometimes long after that."

Keep reading a few more posts down from your last. This is why PA authors stay at PA.

Canada James
 

Canada James

subject

"...and that just lowers your integrity that much further with the average reader who sees people being banned left and right without a comment at PA and sees us chatting here."

It does amaze me that the average reader can be that blind. But, as I've stated, my self-esteem does not need your pats on the back.

Canada James
 

astonwest

Answer in the Question

"why the HELL would you buy your own books when PA is supposed to be selling them for you???"

Folks buy their own books because PA DOESN'T sell them for the author, unfortunately...that, and it's about the only way you can get things set up such as signings (now that stores have wised up, and no longer blindly purchase books created by local authors). I myself have bought my own books...and in fact, still have quite a stockpile left over (which is a common occurence, from what I've read). Besides the other reasons I mentioned earlier, the other reason I bought my own books was because the price is completely outrageous for my book ($16.95 for a little over 100 pages). I figured I could buck the system, and sell more books for a lower price (apparently a misconception). Since PA was completely unwilling to even entertain the notion of lowering the price......

I counted up off my royalty sheets, and my own personal spreadsheet tally...Sales due to PA's attempts to sell my book registered 22 copies (this, from the mailing they sent out when my book was first released). All other sales were due to my own efforts, as far as I know. If there were other efforts made on PA's part, I was not aware of them, and there is no info on the royalty sheets telling an author where sales were made, so only by sheer deduction can one figure these things out.

(These 22 came at $14.95 for a $16.95 book...this was before they instituted the $3 discount, along with a $3 shipping charge)

92 copies were because I purchased books and sold them myself. Prices ranged from $10 to $12.95 for a $16.95 book...

The other 70 copies were a combination of convincing stores to stock the book, or promoting the book to folks over the internet...

So, 184 copies in (just under) 2 years (and PA contributed a little over 10% to the total)...as I've mentioned previously, just moving on to the next one...the best thing a person can do...

:hat
Big Daddy West
 

DaveKuzminski

Taking my side?

No, Dodgem James, they're not taking my side. What you've observed is merely the fact that they have eyes and minds and are capable of recognizing your behavior for what it is. Unfortunately, you seem incapable of understanding that the overall response to you is similar to what many writers are told regarding critiques. If one critique points out a problem in a manuscript, it's not necessarily a problem, but if several point out the same problem, then it's time to do a rewrite.

As to your sarcastic suggestion that I do a critique of your manuscript, the answer is no. Your reaction to criticism is already documented. Giving you a critique would be an exercise in futility.
 

FM St George

Re: buying copies

I hear your pain about buying copies - I bought a few last year for a local book fair and the majority of them are still sitting on my shelf due to horrible weather making the attendance little to none...

I just can't believe that all these authors are buying the mantra that you need to BUY your own books (and forgo the royalties, natch!) to resell them to somehow be successful. There's a few brave souls asking about why this system exists, but they're being shouted down by the usual sheep bleating that the system works for THEM, and if you truly believe in your book, yatta yatta yatta...

and, let's face it - it's not like the discounts are that great to start with... I shudder to think about how many PA authors are tossing money away hand over fist to have boxes delivered to their homes in wistful thinking that they'll be able to bully the local bookstore into allowing them a signing or stock their books on consignment - even at that math, you come out a loser.

sad, sad, sad...
 

dogpile

Re: buying copies

What amazes me is how many of these people actually think they can walk up to Bertlesman's and say "Oh, I sold over 3000 copies (like Bertlesman's will care about that pitilance anyway)". The truth is that THEY bought about 2800 of these...which will NOT register as a retail sale...and means NOTHING!

Now...as someone mentioned...if they pay the bit extra, order from Amazon (or ANYWHERE else), they stand a better chance of having these copies register for something...and not for money in PA's pocket.
 

FM St George

Re: buying copies

true - I actually did the math about ordering from Amazon.com and then being able to pocket the royalties instead of ordering from PublishScAmerica and not getting any royalties at all... it was darned close, I tell you...

including the inflated shipping costs to boot!

sad, sad, sad...

I just shake my head at the number of PA authors right now taking their tax refunds and socking it into books instead of paying off bills... d'oh!
 

emeraldcite

ordering

at least if you order enough from amazon, you won't pay for the shipping

:rollin
 

vstrauss

Re: buying copies

>>I just can't believe that all these authors are buying the mantra that you need to BUY your own books (and forgo the royalties, natch!) to resell them to somehow be successful.<<

It's part of the larger mantra, "Even traditionally-published authors have to promote their own books." Born, in most cases, of a woeful ignorance of the way publishing actually works.

It's truly a shame that so many aspiring writers don't spend time studying up on the field they want to enter, as opposed to just plunging in without any preparation at all. I don't totally understand it--why should people think that they don't need to find out something about the publishing process before attempting it? Maybe it's an outgrowth of the idea that "everyone has a book in them". If anyone can write a book, publishing it must be just as intuitive, right?

To be fair, the publishing industry is not especially forthcoming about the way things work, and does tend to mystify the process by keeping so much information close to the vest. But there are plenty of "how to get published" books that can be easily found in any large bookstore, so it's not totally impossible to find out what's what.

- Victoria
 

FM St George

Re: buying copies

well, the problem isn't promoting it - to be fair - it's the "encouragement" for the authors to buy a zillion copies of their own book 'cause PA can't guarantee having anything anywhere on time.

at least with an upfront POD like Xlibris you receive the books when you pay and you have a product on hand - if nothing else, the Ohio debacle showed that PA can't deliver diddly on time, even with plenty of notice. Heck, there's threads talking about how people have been waiting up to SIX weeks for books ordered off the PA website.

now, having said that - I think there's nothing wrong with having some books on hand; maybe two or three. But ordering buckets of books for booksignings and then having to negotiate your prices down to the point that you might make a buck a book, well...

I think it's just another illusion PA likes to encourage - that somehow your committment to promotion isn't just sending out notes and getting interviews; it includes buying scads of books 'cause they can't sell them the regular way.

and the cultists encourage it by bragging about what deals they've pulled off with local bookstores at their own cost; not even thinking that they're feeding the beast, so to speak...

I ranteth.
 

FM St George

Steve wuvs me...

www.publishamerica.com/cg...al/581.htm

down at the bottom - I've just written to Author Support at PA (hah!) and asked them to remove the posts with my name as he seems to be encouraging other authors to harass me.

I don't expect them to do much, but at least they'll notice that one of their "authors" is a bit erratic, to say the least.

what a loser... notice that I don't spell it with two OO's like he does, heh, heh...
 

astonwest

Re: Steve wuvs me...

Personally, I'm surprised that the posts stayed up as long as they have (did? don't know if any have been removed). I mean, posting that stuff up (on his part) encourages folks to come over to all these 'no-no' sites...

oh well...
Be careful, FM...

:hat
Big Daddy West

p.s. I wouldn't count on AS to do anything about it (be good if they did, though)...they only tend to pull posts that make themselves look bad, or could get them into legal trouble...posting quotes probably doesn't qualify...
 

FM St George

Re: Steve wuvs me...

oh, I figure that Hamish over at writers.net will get into it now that I"ve pointed out that they're basically reposting stuff that they shouldn't be... Steve obviously didn't read the ToS for using the forums at writers.net, so I'm sure he'll be banned (again) soon enough... the sad thing is that he really is coming across as rather psychotic, which tells me that he's finding out the truth about PA and is lashing out at everyone who told him the truth beforehand. So it goes.

oh, check this out - www.publishamerica.com/cg...n/9032.htm

is this a horrible scam or what? Not only do the authors have to bring their own books, but a HUNDRED dollars each? What a frelling scam! I can't believe anyone is buying this tripe!

wow... it's almost impossible to comment on...
 

FM St George

Re: Steve wuvs me...

and here's the great response back from AS... mind you, nothing about me being banned, but still...

Ms. Nantus,

No, we will do no such thing. Authors do not need your nor the "site
owners'" permission to repost something that was previously posted publicly
on an internet message board.

We do, however, remove posts that contain statements that are obviously not
true, though this doesn't happen very often.

We seem to recall that you, for some odd reason, may have had a propensity
for posting bizarre "facts" that were easily proven not to be true.
Anything of that nature, of course, we would remove. Otherwise, no.

Thank you,
Author Support Team
 

James D Macdonald

Re: Steve wuvs me...

I can't believe anyone is buying this tripe!

Those poor guys. They're wandering around carrying signs that read "I'm a sucker. Take me for all I'm worth."
 
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