New development on the oil crisis front

In Australia people are always talking about ways of producing vehicles powered by less petrol or having some other power source. But what about the other uses for oil. Can plastics etc be produced using some other substance? Can we lower oil use that way?

.


For you, blacbird ...




.

Mumut said:

In Australia people are always talking about ways of producing vehicles powered by less petrol or having some other power source. But what about the other uses for oil. Can plastics etc be produced using some other substance? Can we lower oil use that way?

Click to expand...

I don't know about the viability of or cost-effectiveness of non-petro-based plastics. But my understanding of how the oil pie gets sliced up is that in the USA 70% of all our oil consumption (which is $20.4 million barrels a day in the USA-- which is slightly shy of one-fourth of the world's daily diet) goes to "transportation fuel" which includes jet fuel as well as gasoline and diesel.

How the Australian pie gets sliced is not something I have at my fingertips.

Regardless of what's invented, we are all creatures of habit. It will be a long, long road--no pun intended--before EVERYONE gives up their regular gas filled cars...until the last drop. And then, there's the need for speed. I thought I read or watched on television where there are battery operated cars, but they only go approximately 30 mph??

Okay...THAT will get you KILLED on Germany's autobahn...oh, not by a swift moving Audi...but by one pissed-off driver who happens to be driving a car that was super-charged and can now do 45 mph!

And "plastics" is not just Ziplock Baggies and Glad Cling Wrap and Barbie dolls. "Plastics" includes over 90% of the stuff needed in the medical industry (like plastic dispoable IV bags and blood bags).

As well as a significant portion of our furniture. (What kind of chair are you sitting on right now?)

And almost 100% of all electronics (your laptop, your i-Pod, your Blackberry).

While I think we can do without Barbie dolls, we'd be hard-pressed to try and do away with IV bags and laptops.



.

Inky said:

Regardless of what's invented, we are all creatures of habit. It will be a long, long road--no pun intended--before EVERYONE gives up their regular gas filled cars...until the last drop. And then, there's the need for speed. I thought I read or watched on television where there are battery operated cars, but they only go approximately 30 mph??

Okay...THAT will get you KILLED on Germany's autobahn...oh, not by a swift moving Audi...but by one pissed-off driver who happens to be driving a car that was super-charged and can now do 45 mph!

Click to expand...

THe EV1 could go from ZERO to 60 mph in less than 4 seconds and had a range of 300 miles to one charge. It was a golf cart on steroids.

...I also can't help but wonder how much Saudi lies to remain smelling like roses...and how in bed they are with our president--oh, hark! ANOTHER oil tycoon....I think we're being bullshitted all for the sake of profit--in another country's pocket.

Plot Device said:

THe EV1 could go from ZERO to 60 mph in less than 4 seconds and had a range of 300 miles to one charge. It was a golf cart on steroids.

Click to expand...

Was that one of those that seemed to be the answer to the oil/gas crises--but cost more than high-end cars?

Inky said:

Was that one of those that seemed to be the answer to the oil/gas crises--but cost more than high-end cars?

Click to expand...

It was the one that was destroyed via secret collusion between Detroit and Big Oil who both felt threatened by how awesome it was.

Tom Hanks, Ed Begley Jr. and Mel Gibson all leased test vehicles during the Los Angeles testing phase of the car back in the late 1990's and early 2000's. They absolutely loved that car and would have gladly paid any price Detroit would have asked for it. But Detroit came up with lame-ass excuses for scrapping the car, so now it no longer exists.

I'm surprised, with what's going on in this day & age, that Detroit doesn't pull out those blueprints.

It's like the guy who discovered the cure for AIDS...they didn't offer enough money, the University wanted all the credit...so he died, taking the secret formula with him. I have to wonder, in the after life, if he's paying...if he was 'sent here' and failed his mission...I mean, not everyone has the capacity to think/discover/create medical research breakthroughs...

I know this makes me a bit Pollyana--gag--but it gets really old, the dollar forever being the root to all evil. Oh look, a cliche'!

blacbird said:

From a story on MSN tonight:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25443913

In particular, understand this, from the story:



This is the most realistic look at what's happening in the oil bidness today, and is not propaganda. U.S. Americans need to comprehend what's going on here. We are not, never ever, going to produce our own way out of dependence on oil imports. Never. Ever. The rosiest, most yellow-brick-roadish estimates of produceable oil resources in ANWR are a fraction of what this development will have.

caw

Click to expand...

You are forgetting something, aren't you?
US uses about 22 (or 24) % of world fuel, not 100%. It doesn't need to produce as much as Saudis. I do agree that this is only a very short term fix.
As to the question others asked about plastics -- there is no other viable way, but to use oil or recycle

I'm also worried about fertilizers and pesticides that are petroleum by products.

At least the technology exists to do without them, but not at the same efficiency.

Change is needed, but I've a feeling it will be my grandchildren's generation that will be the inventors, as these things take so much time. On the othe hand, technology has exploded by leaps and bounds, so maybe the great minds will pull together?

Nah. It'll be about money. Not until utter desparation will change occur.

blacbird said:

We actually need to produce 2.5 times as much as the Saudis to achieve "oil independence".

caw

Click to expand...

Which will never happen. Even if we tapped ANWR, it just won't happen. Not on a "per day" basis.

Now, again, these are expensive, but I know someone who has one. (actually he's the co-chairman of the company, married to writer Justine Musk. Yeah, they have money) It's very purty too.

http://www.teslamotors.com/

The roadster goes from 0-60 in like 4 seconds and gets the equivalent of over 200 mpg. 100% electric, 200 miles PER CHARGE.

If it were affordable to the masses, it would be the end of gas powered vehicles.

17 million barrels of oil were used to produce plastic water bottles for US consumption only. If everyone went back to tap water and britta filters, that'd save a big chunk of your oil.

http://earth911.org/plastics/facts-about-plastic-bottles/

Inky said:

Regardless of what's invented, we are all creatures of habit. It will be a long, long road--no pun intended--before EVERYONE gives up their regular gas filled cars...until the last drop. And then, there's the need for speed. I thought I read or watched on television where there are battery operated cars, but they only go approximately 30 mph??

Click to expand...

But people are changing their habits, one slow step at a time. Already trucks and SUVs sales are plummeting, in favor of smaller, more fuel-efficient cars. In major metros, people are driving less (or staying local more), and carpooling more. Traffic in LA, for example, has decreased at least 30% at my estimation. In my neighborhood there are more people walking than driving now.

Also, there's much incentive to fund and invest in alternative fuel. Northern CA is now selling the nation's first hydrogen fuel-cell cars. Electric cars are available, but just not cost-effective enough to be mass-market. But if there are demands, you'd see more supplies.

In a way, I think this "oil" crisis is good as a wakeup call. How long-term this is, I don't know. Europe and Asia have been dealing with high fuel costs for years, and they have adapted (more mass transitions, alternative fuels). Americans have been "spoiled" by relative cheap gas, and I think it's a good thing that Americans are more in tune with what the rest of the world has been accustomed to.

maestrowork said:

Northern CA is now selling the nation's first hydrogen fuel-cell cars.

Click to expand...

Selling or leasing???

nevada said:

17 million barrels of oil were used to produce plastic water bottles for US consumption only. If everyone went back to tap water and britta filters, that'd save a big chunk of your oil.

http://earth911.org/plastics/facts-about-plastic-bottles/

Click to expand...

I heard that there are very advanced home water filtration systems now that sell for about three hundred dollars.




Low income people won't go for that one right away, but I think a lot of upper-middle class people (the kind who have the 5-gallon jugs of Poland Spring delivered to their homes for use in their in-house water coolers) definitely will.

blacbird said:

And there's even some minor statistical evidence of reduced consumption of gasoline, down about 2% from this time a year ago. It obviously could stand to go down some more.

But one of the principal problems that's going to be difficult in the U.S., by comparison to Europe, is the greater sparsity of population in much of the country. Mass transit just isn't an option for a lot of people, and it's hard to see how it ever can be. In Britain, for instance, most people go everywhere via train, even from small villages; not feasible in the U.S., except in major metro areas. And agricultural use of petroleum, both for fuel and for fertilizer, is going to be a hard thing to reduce.

caw

Click to expand...

Mr. Kunstler has been saying for over ten years now that America needs to revitalize it's cross-country passenger rail system as well as its many hundreds of defunct local light rail systems.

Traffic-weary Los Angeles is right now trying to restore their local train systems that were so foolishly ripped out back in the 1940's, and the estimated cost is going to be $150 million.