At what point is a novel 'ready' for beta readers?

At any point that you feel you need some input.

A beta reader is a terrible thing to waste. I think the best idea is to wait until you really feel it's finished and as shiny-bright as you can possibly make it.

I have two different groups of beta readers.

One is extremely enthusiastic, will read chapter by chapter if I send them, and I try to keep them fed... I send the book when roughly 1/4 "more" is ready.

They will get the first 1/4, then 1/2, etc - and once more after the final edit.

The second group gets the finished book, after it has gone through two full editing cycles. Their input goes into the final edit as well.

I found that if I did not offer both options, I had frustrated beta readers.

They opt-in to the model they want when they sign up.

mccardey said:

A beta reader is a terrible thing to waste. I think the best idea is to wait until you really feel it's finished and as shiny-bright as you can possibly make it.

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This.

Get it as good as you can.

Depends on your betas. Mine would shred me to pieces if my work is rife with plot holes and grammatical and spelling errors, so I do my best to patch everything up before sending it to them. But if your betas specifically say they don't mind, then by all means, send it to them.

mccardey said:

A beta reader is a terrible thing to waste. I think the best idea is to wait until you really feel it's finished and as shiny-bright as you can possibly make it.

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THIS. Make it as good as you can possibly make it on your own.

It depends on what you and your betas have agreed to. I have read first drafts and I have read ready-to-go-out-the-door. I've read as they're being written and after they're finished.

Betas aren't these Great Ones Who Must See Only Your Best. They're people you ask to read your stuff at any given point - they either agree or not.

I never let anyone see work that isn't polished. I'm sure this varies from writer to writer, but I have to line edit to make my prose readable. Before I line edit there are sentences so convoluted even I have trouble figuring out what I was trying to say.

Hmm. Depends on your betas. Depends on your book. Depends on you. One school of thought is that you polish your book until it's as good as you can make it. The word-blindness has hit home and you're not reading it properly any more. Then the beta reader can be the final gatekeeper before it goes out, the tweaker of last resort.

Another approach - if you know your beta reader well - is to show them a draft which isn't fully finished. You might do this if you want their feedback on whether the structure is right, but before you do the final polishing. It would probably be polite to tell them what stage you were at in the drafting/ editing process.

I've got a couple of friends beta-reading a near complete draft of mine at the moment. And at more or less the same time I helped another friend out by commenting on a draft that he told me was nowhere near finished. Both approaches seem to be working, as long as everyone is honest with each other.

Trip F. said:

Personally I have to fight every instinct I have to prevent overwriting things. I know the feeling of convoluted sentences well.

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Heh, I've given up on not overwriting my initial draft. I lose 10% of my word count when I line edit. That's without removing or significantly changing a single scene, just cutting excess verbiage.

Never, unless the beta reader is a working agent or editor.

shadowwalker said:

Betas aren't these Great Ones Who Must See Only Your Best. They're people you ask to read your stuff at any given point - they either agree or not.

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Perhaps we need to agree a definition of "beta reader" - which is something I only learned about on this site.

There's a sticky somewhere (I'm looking for it) that talks about the difference between beta-readers and other inputters - don't look at me like that, JAR! - with the difference being that beta readers are the last readers you test a submission on before you send it out.

The AW DICTIONARY's definition is the one I'm using at the moment.

Beta - A reference to a beta reader. You have a complete ms. You have edited and revised and polished it. Individual chapters may have been critiqued, and you are ready for a thorough read-through with comments from an experienced and trusted reader. See: AW's Beta Readers, Mentors, and Writing Buddies.

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shadowwalker said:

It depends on what you and your betas have agreed to.

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Exactly - I think setting out terms of reference with your betas at the outset is a very good idea. It helps if you both know what you expect and/or need from the experience. If you're using a beta or betaing someone else for the first time, I think it's often helpful to do a sample chapter before you go any further. That way you can both get an idea of what to expect, and whether it will be a productive exercise/relationship.

Jamesaritchie said:

Never, unless the beta reader is a working agent or editor.

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Once again, you're assuming that what works for YOU works for everyone else. That's not really helpful in answering the OP's question.

mccardey said:

The AW DICTIONARY's definition is the one I'm using at the moment.

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If one is only going to go by AW's def (which is not the one I've been exposed to over several years), then we should probably note that. Most places I frequent use "beta readers" and "critiquers" interchangeably, and the folks I've worked with don't seem to be confused (or care) about the term, as long as someone's willing to look at their stuff, at whatever point they are with it.

Regardless of definition, one should still clarify with the person where things stand before the critique starts.

shadowwalker said:

Regardless of definition, one should still clarify with the person where things stand before the critique starts.

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Absolutely agree with that, but I still think a definition helps - especially on a board with lots of newbies. I would imagine that's why AW provides it - it helps to clarify things for new writer, or writers new to publishing.

Well, as I said, if one wants to use AW's definition only, then it should be stated. Otherwise, there are a lot of people who understand that "beta" means "critiquer", regardless of when it's done. I mean, if the beta by AW finds a huge plot hole, the story's back to the one-draft-of-how-many-more again, so suddenly they didn't have a beta but just a critiquer? I just don't think such a limiting definition is necessary, especially if the people involved are communicating about expectations before even getting started. If the "beta" wants it completely edited and polished, they'll say no if it isn't. If they're willing to look at something else, they'll say yes. So what's the big deal?

Trip F. said:

So I finished the slog that is writing a first draft, now I'm rewriting it in a completely different method (first person instead of third). After I do that I plan on polishing up the pages one at a time.

Would it be a good idea to get beta readers at that point or should I do like four drafts before I show it to anyone?

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Anytime you want critical input is the right time for you. The ball is in your court, not someone else's. Make sure whoever provides critique knows at what point you're at in the writing process, - first draft, polished and ready to submit, etc.

Some writers want a critical eye early in the process, esp. inexperienced writers. It's helpful to them so they don't waist precious time making the same mistakes. Others hold off until they're finished and ready to submit, while others never want a critique at all. Published writers often don't need one until a publishing house editor receives their MS.

Whenever you submit for critique it's important to understand that your writing will be critiqued. Make sure you're ready for it. Thicken your skin and create some emotional distance between yourself and your writing. You will receive critique, whether your writing is perfect or not.

shadowwalker said:

So what's the big deal?

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Well - words and expectations and useful communication based on shared understandings and that kind of thing. But no-one's insisting, sw. You do it your way and I'll do it my way.

Neegh said:

At any point that you feel you need some input.

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I think you'd be better off using alpha readers, or a writing partner for this. Or, hell, even SYW so long as you've proofread for grammatical/punctuational errors.

I've always thought of beta's as the people you go to once you've run out of ideas to make it better.