Purgatory's Pit of Doom

Hmm, thinking about maybe submitting my first book to Bl0omsbury, Marsh@ll Cav3ndish, and H0liday H0use, since they take unagented subs. Do you think that's dumb, like I won't be considered seriously because i'm unagented, and won't be able to submit again should I ever be agented, or do I have the same chance? My agent didn't submit to the last two, and the first one we subbed to but withdrew the manuscript. I believe you are allowed to resubmit in that case, right, since they never read nor rejected it?

Well, I'll join in on the "I hate my ms / WIP/ whatever" right now. The ms I'm querying, well, I believe it just sucks. Truly.

I have no faith in it like I did my last ms. I'm just feeling like a fraud these days; a hack.

ETA: Kellion, nothing to lose. However, you will now go into the slush pile, so it could be a solid year or more of waiting. And who knows? You may have another agent, sooner rather than later.

That being said, I've shared those same ideas / thoughts. No one's going to take my old ms since it made the rounds....

Sheesh, mentally, I feel like sh*t.

*downs a double maggotini, followed by a pina colarva chaser*

Well, I am drinking my pina colarvas now, so I hear you.

In some ways I still love my WIP, but I don't know what to do with it. Reading published books is more and more confusing because they do so many things I'm not supposed to be doing.

I think I might save Bl0omsbury in case I get an agent, but the others ask for samples and synopsis instead of query only. I trust those places more to give it a sincere look, and I do know of one writer who MC bought out of slush.

Or would an agent consider Blo0msbury burned because we did sub there? Or maybe I should send the requesting editor the query instead, tell them the history about how they requested it and we withdrew it, and ask if they'd like to see the new version?

Eh, I'm grasping at straws. I'm just thinking the market might be hot now for my carnival sideshow manuscript, what with the Water for Elephants movie coming out and Evie's book being so huge.

Kellion, when your agent pulled the ms, did she give a specific reason, other than she saw the passes trickling in? Did you do another revision?

I tend to go against the grain and would say yes, go back to the editor who requested. When you told me what your ms was about, I had the same thoughts about the current trends right now. I'd say go for it, but I'm certain I'm in the minority.

As always.

I did a big revision after the passes to improve pacing and the payoff in the end, but my agent then realized there was a fundamental disconnect between the realistic elements and the magical ones, and that we could show the book to more editors but that wouldn't change anything with the manuscript.

I wish I could have shown the current version of the manuscript to editors in the first place, but none of them saw it.

She withdrew a ms. after submitting it? She had a ms. she was originally willing to submit, which was then revised, and she sent it nowhere?

There's a reason this agent is not succeeding, and it is not the quality of your work.

Kellion, are those publishers you mentioned open to YA fantasy and such? Because I've been thinking the same thing with the YA fantasy my agent has been shopping around. She has two manuscripts (thriller and YA) and there has been a dead, stone silence for a couple months now, even after my emails to find out whass up. I have the terrifying feeling that one of my best YA fantasies just might bite the dust, so I need to be prepared for my own sub campaign.

Keerist, I've sold every damn book my past three agents have neglected to sell. So those publishers just might come in handy.

Thanks,

Tri

kellion92 said:

Hmm, thinking about maybe submitting my first book to Bl0omsbury, Marsh@ll Cav3ndish, and H0liday H0use, since they take unagented subs. Do you think that's dumb, like I won't be considered seriously because i'm unagented, and won't be able to submit again should I ever be agented, or do I have the same chance?

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I'm no expert but the Submit Through Agent Or Attorney rule is a popular tool for scaring off amateurs, newbies and wannabes. You're no wannabe! If you call them and network in - chat up the assistant to the publisher, ask about what they want and if you can submit your script er sorry, manuscript - you're in, and the game is on.
Generally an agent's role is to help you decide which houses and publishers are right for you to sign and do business with. Why does your agent feel these houses won't work for you? My guess is that if you have an agent, and you go behind her/his back to get in with these houses, it can come back to bite you on the ass. Again, I'm not pursuing the novel market so it's only my take.

My agent didn't submit to the last two, and the first one we subbed to but withdrew the manuscript. I believe you are allowed to resubmit in that case, right, since they never read nor rejected it?

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That's an interesting question. So your agent submitted it, changed her mind and took it back, and now you want to submit it again? If the publisher never looked at it and offered an opinion on it, I guess it's OK. Most likely they have no memory of the manuscript ever being there.
OK, carry on.

lkp said:

She withdrew a ms. after submitting it? I've heard of this before, especially when passes come back with the same problem. The agent will withdraw, letting the editor know it will be coming back with revisions.

She had a ms. she was originally willing to submit, which was then revised, and she sent it nowhere? This is pretty baffling, I must admit, but clearly, she had her own agenda at that point. Her loss.

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It's amazing how many of us have marketable mss (in that at least an agent thought so), but because of our agents' various screwups, we're left in the dust, wondering what to do now with our still marketable mss.

Wait, I'm not being clear. Because of the incompetence of an agent, our mss may never see the light of day because no agent will rep. a ms that's already been subbed. Even though it was subbed to the wrong editor, was pitched incorrectly, was pulled from an editor...we are left with nothing but a bloodied, unusable piece of work. And that really sucks.

ETA: Wordwrestler, we cross posted. I'm so sorry about your ms. That truly sucks. I too just pitched my old ms to an agent. He asked to see it. He really, really liked it and said he got why it had gained so much attention. However, he felt like it was too soon to resub.

Kellion, I'd send. With my book I got the publisher (indie, so not quite the same) interested first, and a contract all within a nine months of submission.

Hmm, I think I will send it out so I have something to make me anxious while I revise. Not sure on strategy yet...

Tri, those publishers pub YA, fantasy too. You should try Flux too -- they take unagented YA (not MG).

I'm not sure about querying agents though... It only got 8 rejections, so an agent would have places to sub, but I don't know. Word and Vandal, what kind of language do you put in the query?

Reading through all these responses, and have nothing new to add. Kellion, if you still believe in the MS--and it sounds wonderful--I think you should go for it.

I wish I could resub my agented MS, but I just don't think I can. Agent #1 subbed it everywhere (we're talking 20+ editors). Agent #2 yanked it from everyone we hadn't heard from and resubbed to 7. Technically, I think that means there's no one left. Plus, am pretty sure it already got R'd by all the places that take unagented subs. Most of them said they didn't want fantasy.

I guess I'll be the lone dissenting voice, Kellion. I'd sit on ms. #1. It is by no means "used up" since it sounds like a lot of likely editors have not yet seen it. It could be part of a two book submission by a new agent. And new agent could look at it and say, "Hey, what if you did this?" and provide the key to making it more marketable.

But really, I know nothing.

Thanks for all this advice. I will definitely not query agents, since book 2 is not so far away from querying. Maybe I will send book one to one or two places, just to keep hope alive. And I won't send to any houses that want query-only. I want some pages in there because my pages are definitely above the average slush quality...

Well, I have to sit on this a little bit anyway, since none of the houses I'm looking at (wisely) takes e-subs -- you have to invest in the paper and postage, and that takes some effort and footwork.

lkp said:

I guess I'll be the lone dissenting voice, Kellion. I'd sit on ms. #1. It is by no means "used up" since it sounds like a lot of likely editors have not yet seen it. It could be part of a two book submission by a new agent. And new agent could look at it and say, "Hey, what if you did this?" and provide the key to making it more marketable.

But really, I know nothing.

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This is definitely sound advice, and probably the right strategy in most cases.

Kellion SUB TO THOSE THREE HOUSES! That’s my advice and contact that editor who requested before. Explain the situation, see what they say. You’ve got nothing to lose, right? (I would say nothing to lose except your pride but those of us in the pit have had our pride stomped flat ages ago)
‘There's a reason this agent is not succeeding, and it is not the quality of your work.’ <- this.
Tri, is your agent ignoring you or do you mean silence from publishers?
Mario Kellion doesn’t have to worry about any of that, she has an ex agent, not an agent L
{{word}} And welcome(ish) to the pit.
ACK CRICKET that’s fucking heart breaking and infuriating!!

haha, I will sleep on it. I'm off to a holiday gathering that was canceled due to the snowstorm the day after Christmas, so I can't do anything anyway. But I don't feel down and out -- I'm thinking of maybe one house at a time just to keep life interesting and stop me from premature querying.

Hi Soul, it's been awhile...I've been rolled up in a ball in a corner, in a daze from too much smoking maggot, watching you guys at work.
Anyway, thank you for clarifying that. And Kellion I'm sorry you lost your agent, and for being confused in that regard. Have fun at your party / mixer.

Got yet another pass on a query. Maybe she's mad I pointed out a typo on her bio page. I checked...the typo remains....

May have figured out a slight way around the opening of my ms....heh, not that it matters.

Hey guys. How is everyone doing?

I took a look at one of my old mss and decided that with a little spit polishing, it could be seen by human eyes, but I didn't really feel like having another book out to be shopped, so I'm self publishing it on the Kindle. I have a professional editor and everything!! It will be sold, like, professionally

As for the book I do care enough about to shop, I've heard nothing from the agent I send my full to in OCTOBER. I even gave her a helpful nudge. nothing, nothing, nothing.

Howdy, Leigh!

Popping to share this link from Smashw0rds....

Also jk0nrath's blog is instructional.

I'll admit to feeling very ambivalent about all this. The guy in the article above basically says that he didn't know the writing basics when he started, and I'm not sure what that says about his success. But FWIW...

Other Lisa said:

Howdy, Leigh!

Popping to share this link from Smashw0rds....

Also jk0nrath's blog is instructional.

I'll admit to feeling very ambivalent about all this. The guy in the article above basically says that he didn't know the writing basics when he started, and I'm not sure what that says about his success. But FWIW...

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That's amazing... and a little terrifying

Leigh.Lyons said:

That's amazing... and a little terrifying

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Yeah. Exactly my reaction!

Other Lisa said:

Howdy, Leigh!

Popping to share this link from Smashw0rds....

Also jk0nrath's blog is instructional.

I'll admit to feeling very ambivalent about all this. The guy in the article above basically says that he didn't know the writing basics when he started, and I'm not sure what that says about his success. But FWIW...

Click to expand...

Hmm...Lots of mixed emotions about this.

Mornin', Pit.

Kell, I got nothin.' I don't know what you should do, so I'd lean on what others said. Me? I don't know what I'd do in similar situation.