Garbage as energy

MattW

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Notice how all of these innovations seem to be easy to build in non-US places?

I wonder what in the world is preventing the American businesses from applying technology that was probably developed here... Could it be one or more monumental bureaucracies, government agencies, or knee-jerk environmental panic petitions?
 

InfinityGoddess

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I wonder what in the world is preventing the American businesses from applying technology that was probably developed here... Could it be one or more monumental bureaucracies, government agencies, or knee-jerk environmental panic petitions?

More like we don't have the political will at the moment to go beyond fossil fuels.
 

MattW

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We've got a incinerator/power plant here in minneapolis, we've had it for decades.
The plant in the article doesn't incinerate, just uses high-temp.

Doesn't release anywhere near the emissions.
 

Sarpedon

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Orly? Our plant doesn't release any emissions either, once the exhaust goes through the treatment system.

And how much energy does it take to get it up to those temperatures, I want to know.
 

MattW

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I have said this before, garabage mining will be a big industry in the near future.
When you consider where some McMansions have been built, it also becomes a solution for the real estate market as well when properties are snatched up for garbage exploration.

Win win win.
 

sassandgroove

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OK I read the article and I clicked on the embedded link I thought would explain 'gasification' and it just restated that the facililty will not incinerate, but use gasification. I googled gasification, but I still don't get it. If you don't incinerate the trash, where does it go?

A town I once lived in, which was declining in population, voted down building an incinerator that would make tile out of the ash because of a few people who 'didn't wnat the polution.' Even though there would be minimal waste. Instead they put in a plant that had something to do with chickens. Then they had an infestation of flies feeding on the chicken poop. I know this is a side topic, but it is a good example of people shutting down a good idea out of fear instead of looking at all the facts.
 

Joe270

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The original linked source has the facts wrong. There are lots of these plants in the US, some more than 20 years old.

Part of the reason we don't have more of them is that they cost a whole lot to build. Now, with the cost of fuel so high, I'd expect we'll see lots of new 'trash-to-energy' plants.

I seen footage of the one in San Francisco on 'Dirty Jobs'.

http://www.examiner.com/a-829966~EPA_backs_new_trash_plant.html

Carroll and Frederick county officials held the solid waste forum Saturday at Frederick Community College as the two jurisdictions consider building a regional trash incinerator, also called a waste-to-energy plant, where garbage is burned to produce electricity.
Baltimore City as well as Harford and Montgomery counties burn trash and some are expanding their plants, but a new one has not been built in Maryland in more than a decade.


Improved technology to control pollution emissions makes the plants safer than the incinerators built 20 years
Carroll and Frederick county officials held the solid waste forum Saturday at Frederick Community College as the two jurisdictions consider building a regional trash incinerator, also called a waste-to-energy plant, where garbage is burned to produce electricity.
Baltimore City as well as Harford and Montgomery counties burn trash and some are expanding their plants, but a new one has not been built in Maryland in more than a decade.


Improved technology to control pollution emissions makes the plants safer than the incinerators built 20 years ago and garbage burns more cleanly than coal, said Lori Scozzafava, deputy executive director of the Solid Waste Association of North America.
ago and garbage burns more cleanly than coal, said Lori Scozzafava, deputy executive director of the Solid Waste Association of North America.

Sorry for the quote getting all discombobulated. Something odd happened when I copied it.
 
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InfinityGoddess

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The original linked source has the facts wrong. There are lots of these plants in the US, some more than 20 years old.

Part of the reason we don't have more of them is that they cost a whole lot to build. Now, with the cost of fuel so high, I'd expect we'll see lots of new 'trash-to-energy' plants.

I seen footage of the one in San Francisco on 'Dirty Jobs'.

http://www.examiner.com/a-829966~EPA_backs_new_trash_plant.html

No matter what we do, there's always going to be price tag attached to it. Personally, I'm more interested in the environmental impact and the long-term and not really into the short-term financial cost of the projects involved.
 

Joe270

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Vegas is very short-sighted for not using these here. We have an over abundance of garbage because of all the tourism. These will work great here.
 

InfinityGoddess

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Vegas is very short-sighted for not using these here. We have an over abundance of garbage because of all the tourism. These will work great here.

Fresh Kills Landfill has lots of garbage. Every time I've gone to Staten Island, that place stinks it up. Past time to put it to use, imo.
 

sassandgroove

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Joe270 said:
The original linked source has the facts wrong. There are lots of these plants in the US, some more than 20 years old.
Does it? I thought the link was stating that this was a new kind of plant that didn't incinerate but used 'gasification' which is what made it new and different. I still don't understand what 'gasification' is and how it is better. Again, where does the trash go? It can't all turn to gas.
 

sassandgroove

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From Rolling thunders linky said:
In plasma gasification the waste input is pyrolysed by the high temperature into its constituent elements: H2, O2, C, N2 etc. The converter conditions are controlled so that prior to exit, the elements reform into the desired syngas that is rich in CO and H2. The materials that can not be converted into syngas, such as metal, glass, rock and concrete are vitrified to produce an inert slag. The slag is 1/250th of the volume of the processed solid waste.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
py·rol·y·sis
–noun Chemistry. 1. the subjection of organic compounds to very high temperatures.
2. the resulting decomposition.

[Origin: 1885–90; pyro- + -lysis]

Ok- I am starting to get it. So it is saying that the only waste is 1/250th of the size it started - mainly metal and such and is inert.
 

Rolling Thunder

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It's possible a lot of recoverable metals don't make it to the final process, too. I take debris to a waste transfer station on a regular basis and the employees pick as much aluminum, steel, etc., as they can and put it into a large dumpster. The waste company sells it as scrap and probably makes good money.