The Heroine's Journey

Camilla Delvalle

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Kuwi, your analysis is brilliant, and very interesting. Especially when it comes to steps like Refusal of the Call, Crossing of the First Threshold, and Revolutionize the World. The idea about the hidden world that is mixed with the real world gave me much to think about.

I interpret the Belly of the Whale differently, more like an actual imprisonment, deprivation, depression, or loss of ability or friends. These are also things that are common in stories, that give the protagonist time to think things through, and to come back stronger. One recent example could be in Shinsekai yori, when a monk takes the kid's power. For a long time they run around helpless, and Saki and Satoru are even trapped in a cave, where Saki has a strange vision and realizes how their power can be regained. Other examples could be when the protagonist in Legend of Korra loses and regains her power, when Utena loses a duel and becomes depressed, or when Madoka loses some friends and becomes depressed. In Utena there are probably more examples, like when people take the elevator to the basement, though that doesn't really give them the right kind of spiritual experience.

One could argue that Utena meets The Godess too. Most obviously in the dance scene in the rose garden in the movie.

I have a faint memory about Campbell mentioning something like the Collection of Companions, but maybe it is like you say that it is more pronounced in shoujo stories.
 

anne_tedeton

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I'd add a step before the Road of Trials, called something like Collection of Companions. The male monomyth is very much about a lone hero, and even though in many versions there are companions, there is not nearly as much emphasis placed on the idea of friends and companions, but I think it's emphasized much more explicitly in the stories I'm considering Heroine's Journeys.

Collecting companions is a semi-recent development in story telling, I think. I'm sure it goes back further than Tolkien, but that's one of the stereotypes of RPGs--"[Character] has joined your party!" But it's a bit of a different animal with magical girl stories, isn't it? Especially in a story where the companions are primarily female.

I think this could be divvied up even further, because the companions often fulfill a sort of stereotyped role--the tough girl, the sweet girl, the token tsundere, the otome...almost like anime archetypes. Often there's an element of having to "win" a companion over or convince them to join up. I think you're pretty spot-on here, because those are definitely trials--if quite different from the trials of the monomyth.

I don't think it's as simple as replacing the Meeting with the Goddess with a God, and since love and companionship is often emphasized from the beginning with a Heroine's Journey, the encounter of love doesn't fully fit. There are examples of it, but I don't think it's a necessary step in a Heroine's Journey. I would replace it with maybe something like Testing of Friendships.

I agree with you here. The temptation aspect is usually some kind of misunderstanding. The group disbands in some way, or there's a shift in power. If it's a heroine who's primarily on her own, there's usually some kind of discovery that tests her dedication to the end goal.

The Woman as Temptress obviously doesn't work ... Rather, there's often a Rejection of the Burden. This isn't quite like refusal of the call. Instead, it's the heroine's struggle with the endless nature of her struggle, questioning whether it will in fact ever end, or if it's even possible, or if it was a good idea in the first place.

This is spot-on. The awesome thing about your theory here is that I'm finding some awesome parallels with my own book :) Rejecting responsibility is huge in stories with female responsibilities. It's almost a prerequisite for the "final showdown." Regardless of where it fits in a particular story, it has to happen. And with female protags, I think the psychological aspect is stronger.

In believing in her own heroism, the heroine develops the power to overcome the endless struggle by changing the rules themselves. The heroine neither stays in the Secret World, nor does the heroine return to her previous world (which would in fact be possible anyway, because you can't un-see the Masquerade). Rather the heroine changes the world itself, and leaves both her original world and the Secret World behind.

I think you could argue that through revolutionizing the world, the heroine integrates the world of old, and the world of new--acting almost like a conduit for change. The either/or aspect of the monomyth is traded for a both/and.

I also think it can work perfectly well for a male character (and can think of at least one anime example that does follow this pattern with a male hero).

The original TV ending of Evangelion was spot-on for this. I think it's possible to argue a model of the monomyth for mecha anime all by itself :)

I interpret the Belly of the Whale differently, more like an actual imprisonment, deprivation, depression, or loss of ability or friends.

You know, you could almost argue that this stage is a descent into the underworld--it's the mechanism for change and eventual acceptance, but it almost always requires that the heroine undergoes something that's truly damaging. There's the event, followed by the psychological "descent" you're talking about here. Almost like a...Hitting Rock Bottom moment. The heroine has to reach an absolute low before she can bounce back up and reclaim ownership of her self, her responsibilties, and her desire for change.

Excellent brain food here :) Thanks for giving me something to chew over.
 
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Camilla Delvalle

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Collecting companions is a semi-recent development in story telling, I think. I'm sure it goes back further than Tolkien, but that's one of the stereotypes of RPGs--"[Character] has joined your party!" But it's a bit of a different animal with magical girl stories, isn't it? Especially in a story where the companions are primarily female.
Maybe collecting companions is more rare in older stories, but there is one type of story that I can think of. There seems to be stories from Africa, and also from Russia, where the hero is joined by a group of different characters, often three of them, where each one has a special ability. Maybe one can hear very well, one can run very fast, one can shoot very well with a bow, etc. At the end of the story, victory is acheived with the help of these people, and it would not be possible without them. Sometimes those three characters are not travelling together with a hero but instead they are the heroes. Two main points of this kind of story seems to be that cooperation is important, and that people with different abilities can complement each other.
 

RichardGarfinkle

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It's not a new trope at all. Early versions of Arthur's knights had each of them having a special ability. There are similar variations in Robin Hood's Merry Men. For a Chinese example, there are the Heroes of the Water Margin.
 

Camilla Delvalle

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It's not a new trope at all. Early versions of Arthur's knights had each of them having a special ability. There are similar variations in Robin Hood's Merry Men. For a Chinese example, there are the Heroes of the Water Margin.
Yes, Arthur is a clear example that I didn't think about. Another example is Jason and the argonauts. I've always liked stories with many heroes. Lone heroes like Superman are so lonely, while groups of heroes, like X-Men, seem to have more fun.
 

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kind of related... You guys have seen this, haven't you? The monomyth explained by puppets (sorry for the interruption) :)
 

Laer Carroll

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Wow. I'm blown away by the intelligence and sophistication of the posts in the thread I started.

One thought came to me as I read them. Instead of the heroe's or the heroine's journey, I'd like to expand journey to journIES.

That is, instead of every man (or woman) embarking on the same journey, I'd like to see many alternative journeys. Some men leave, some men don't. The ones who leave will eventually take on any of many roles. Some stay home, to take on any of several other roles.

In other words, men can become doers, intellectuals, spiritual workers, doctors, lawyers, Indian chiefs. Some become fathers, other don't. (Ditto women; not every woman must become or at least aspire to become a mother.)

In other words, I want to see a polymyth.
 

Laer Carroll

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I've always thought the monomyth was a procrustean theory that ignores the diversity of storytellng.

Story models like THJ are good as long as we use them to stimulate our creativity. Bad if we let them straightjacket it.
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Other random thoughts. Which may just be memories of what others have said in other discussions of this subject.

The hero's journey is really the boy's journey to adulthood. So the heroine's journey is the girl's journey.

The journey is made of stages in this process.

Many stages include a decision about something. And not just the obvious ones, such as The Refusal of the Call. The hero may (for example) reject some or all of the aids offered by the protective figure near the beginning of the journey.

Which may have good or bad consequences; some of the apparent aids may be poisoned or booby-trapped. Even if an aid is benign, rejecting it may make the journey harder, but also may make the journey more rewarding. A crutch, for instance, can help or (through overuse and muscular atrophy) hurt the hero.

Once the boy/girl becomes an adult, there may be other journeys which only an adult can make. One such is becoming a father/mother.

The adult's journey may be the youth's journey repeated but with an adult's resources. Those might include a grown-up perspective and taking up as an aid one of the boons with which they returned. (I'm reminded of the retired gunfighter digging out his pistol when a bad guy or guys come to town. And maybe using cunning learned on the journey to win fights with the pistol.)
 
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Victoria Schmidt in her book 45 Master Characters outlines and alternative plot outline to Campbell's Hero's journey- that she calls The Feminine Journey and that she believes resonates more deeply with women and girls than The Heroes Journey. She doesn't claim one is better she merely includes both story models.
 

gothicangel

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Victoria Schmidt in her book 45 Master Characters outlines and alternative plot outline to Campbell's Hero's journey- that she calls The Feminine Journey and that she believes resonates more deeply with women and girls than The Heroes Journey. She doesn't claim one is better she merely includes both story models.

That is an amazing book. I still use it when I'm in the initial stages of character development.
 

Laer Carroll

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Thanks, gingerwoman (also known to the criminal underworld as Lisa Whitefern, notorious cat burglar who daylights as a paranormal romance author).

I looked up Schmidt at Amazon and found she has a later book, Story Structure Architect. I clicked on the Look Inside link and got a feel for the book.

Looks useful, so I checked my public library. And the branch right across the street from me has two copies! On my way to lunch with my lady I will pick up one.

As long as we take such books as idea stimulators rather than gospel I think they can be useful.
 

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I have an (unfinished) novel where I had an established character going through the hero's journey, and I wanted his fiancee to travel the heroine's journey. The way I approached it was to look at the classic 'woman gender' associated issues (which isn't to say all women are this way -- many are better suited for the hero's journey, but this particular character was not).

What I ended up realizing is that there's a classic example of the Heroine's Journey out there already: Jane Eyre.

Somewhere I have the entire journey noted down and explained. I built the fiancee's plot in the book around it. That was years ago, though, so that notebook is stored with a bunch of other notebooks god knows where (probably my attic).

Jane Eyre is an excellent example of a woman who is both feminine and strong. She displays strength of will, strength of mind, and strength of character without compromising her 'feminine' attributes. People knock the book because Rochester was keeping his crazy wife in the attic, but they neglect to note that Bronte makes him pay for that, because what he did was wrong. She scars him, takes away his sight, and takes Jane from him; she only comes back when she's emotionally and financially independent enough that she can be his equal, not his pet.

Too often, even in modern literature, people equate 'strong character' with male attributes and behaviors, because so many people subconsciously equate strength with men. (Think of how many times people say things like 'She's a strong female character! She kicks ass and takes names!') For that reason, Jane Eyre is one of my favorite novels, if not my favorite novel. IMO, one of the most feminist things I've ever read.

And also an excellent example of the heroine's journey.
 

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Would you consider the following trope to be a form of Heroine's Journey?

The young women's family is in danger and, after first rejecting the call, she accepts being sent away from her familiar home to the castle of a different powerful family where she must overcome social and psychological barriers to win safety for her family by cementing a peace.

Because that's a story we've seen time and time again, in various forms.