When to write a novel -- questions

Short story writing and novel writing aren't the same skill set. If you write a lot of shorts, you'll hone your short-writing skills, but that doesn't mean you'll be able to flesh out a novel-length work.

It's a personal decision, but I'm of the opinion that if you want to write a novel, you should write a novel. You can work on your skills in the writing process. You'll have to revise and edit - over and over again, until your book is polished. You'll have plenty of time to improve your craft during the process.

If your heart is set on novels, write novels.

I find writing exercises and writing short stories can help you work on specific skills (like description and setting and character development) without a lot of time commitment. But all those skills can be fine tuned as you edit and revise your novel, get feedback, and edit and revise again.

I personally found it beneficial to write short stories while I was trying to improve my weak areas. But short stories aren't a prequel to novels. You can jump into novels anytime you want.

An idea is only as long as you the narrator makes it. You add and subject conflict, plot twists, and details depending on the length you're shooting for.

Definitely two different skill sets. I started out writing novel-length stories, and found writing short stories a real challenge. It's possible to do both, but you do need to write differently to do so.

I agree with Cyia. There's more to writing a full length novel than meets the eye. Typically because the world and plots you're building are more intricate.

I would like to write longer work at some point, but would it be wiser to concentrate on short stories until my style becomes good enough to be publishable?

Click to expand...

Even the writing styles of those who write longer works still aren't publishable. If you have an idea for a story that is full length, then write it. How will you every get the skill and experience if you never try? That being said, even if it isn't published, you would already be gaining valuable experience.

I have never been able to write short stories. My mind tends to complicate things. Though I have an idea for a short which I will tackle if I have the time. Never say never.

Do you see yourself writing a lengthy story? Or is it that you don't know where it begin? You'll never know if you never try.

I was shocked how many new skills were needed in novel writing when I switched entirely over. After publishing a couple dozen short stories, I didn't need to start at the very beginning, but I had a steep learning curve ahead of me. (And that, of course, I'll always have. Learning never ends.)

Some benefits I see to starting with short fiction:

- you will be more likely to finish projects, and finishing is a good habit to get into

- you have a chance to work out some basics (how dialog works, how to characterize, showing and not telling, and more) in a more manageable way. For instance, since you can easily choose only two characters for a short story, you'll not need to confront the challenge of a conversation between five people until you're ready.

- you don't have to have as big/complex ideas.

- you can more easily explore different genres that interest you

Benefits to starting with novels:

- when you're good enough to sell, you have a chance to make a living at it. This will never be true of poetry or short stories.

- you'll learn more quickly about novel-writing, which is your ultimate goal

(I'm sure others can add to those lists.)

A novel doesn't require a "good" idea for hundreds of pages. It requires layered/complicated ideas, inventing many characters and subplots, managing pacing and rising tension, and controlling all the matters of craft you control in a short story. Also, you must not get bored with writing it along the way; you must stick with it for maybe a year or more.

It has been said, and I often cite this, that it takes a million practice words before you can write a good novel. Maybe only a half-million for some. Fewer for a rare, rare group. So in one way, it matters little where you start. At 1000 words a day, five days a week (which not a lot of beginners can manage to produce), it'll take 2-4 years to get to competence.

Mostly, BIC (butt in chair), write fiction. Blogs don't count. Diaries don't count. Fiction, a million words of it. If you haven't already begun, start today.

Smish is dead on.

My first approach at writing was a full length novel (length is subject to interpretation). It took me four years. But I learned so much.

Throughout those years, via forums, I learned a valuable lesson:
I can consistently write grammatically correct (except on forums). But I received alot of criticism on my story.

Now I know writing skills and storytelling skills are different.
I say go for what feels right for you. For me, I had a story and I told it. Sometimes, you have to write it, no matter the length. I guess what I'm getting at is: Can you tell the story?

I started out purely writing long fiction.

I still can't write short stories well. All I might write are parts of Vignettes of a larger work.


You can expand from short stories, but there really has to be a lot of content to expand from.


I also see that short story writers condense, weave and shorten everything they might write to push into the size limits.
Novelist on the other hand, expand on ideas and let the grow with time.

Both have skills you need to learn in order to do both well. If you want to do longer works, write longer works.

If you want to write a novel, go for it. If I had decided I had to become good at short stories first, I would have zero novels under my belt instead of eight. Now you could argue that my novels would have been better with some practice at short stories first, but I'm happy with the way I'm learning. My mind naturally makes every idea far too complex for a short story. And nothing helps you learn how to write a novel more than writing a novel. Get those million words in.

Write whatever you wish, but do it for the right reasons. The right reason to write short stories is because you love to read and write short stories. Same with novels.

The two do require different skills sets. I had no trouble switching from one to the other, but many do. But different skill set or not, write whatever makes you happy. It makes no sense to write short stories if you're sitting there thinking about a novel. Just make yourself happy.

as everyone seems to have said, differing skill sets. And, short markets have gotten much tighter--it used to be a valid argument that pubbing a half-dozen shorts was a great way to build up your writing credentials before you tackled a novel. It still is, but as tight as the markets are, you'd be far better off, as suggested, just learning to write novels off the bat instead.


as for when you know how long your story is, that will vary by writer and story. I usually have a fair idea of "novel or short" but that's about it, and that's because I don't start until i have most of the story in my head someplace--it often changes, but I usually have a fair approximation of where to start, where I'm going, and what's along the way, so I have some idea of length.

I decided to start writing novels when I found out JKR was a gazillionaire.

I always wrote novels. Even my short stories are novellas!

Some people can write both. For me, short stories are very, very hard. I can't cram everything I want to say into 20 pages (though for some reason, flash fiction is much easier for me to write). For one of my friends, novels are very, very hard and therefore she reviles them and will only read and write short stories.

But if you want to write novels, then you need to practice writing novels, IMO. The plotting, characterization, settings, etc. are going to be different from what you'd do in a short story. Can you carry your idea over 100,000 words? What about your characters? Those are questions only you can answer.

I haven't written a short story since I was 12. No desire to ever write one again either (though I like reading them sometimes). The skill sets are so completely different that it would be like starting over as a newbie (only with better spelling and grammar than I had as a total newbie).

Of course, if you enjoy writing short stories, then go for it. But if you just want to write a novel, then focus on that.

Oh dear, this is like several threads rolled into one. Let me try and break it down:

Should people start a novel as soon as they like or write shorter works until they hone their writing skills?

Click to expand...

I think everybody is different. There's no set formula for how to make a good writer, because like any other type of art, "skill" is entirely subjective. Of course, there's a technical aspect that one does need to master, but other than that, there's really no saying. A writer does need to write before creating a decent novel, no doubt, but it doesn't necessarily have to be shorter works.

I would like to write longer work at some point, but would it be wiser to concentrate on short stories until my style becomes good enough to be publishable? (That or should novel writing be purely therapeutic for enjoyment?)

Click to expand...

Obviously, every writer wants to be published, and we all have daydreamed once or twice about a huge Big Six publishing deal. But that's obviously not what it's about. If you worry about being publishable before even writing the thing, than your mind will not be where it needs to be to create good art. So, to answer your question, yes, I've always been of the belief that one needs to write for recreation and enjoyment before he/she can really worry about publishing.

Along with that, how does one decide whether his or her idea is good enough to expand into a novel rather than a short story? Or are those two mediums even comparable?

Click to expand...

This question is a little confusing. Are you saying that ideas for novels must come from short stories? If so, no, absolutely not. As you suggested, novels and short stories are two totally different forms (well, maybe not totally different, but certainly not very comparable in composition or style). Or are you saying that the way to get better at writing is to write short stories? To which my answer would also be no, for the same reasons I listed above. As far as gauging your talent as a writer goes, I think the best way to go about it is to get feedback from people whom you trust. I've found that I'm a terrible judge of my own work. Many pieces I've rather liked have been ripped apart by betas and others, and some pieces that I didn't like so much were applauded.

Whether an idea is good enough for hundreds of pages?

Click to expand...

I don't think those two things correlate. A good idea can be one page or ten pages or one thousand pages. A novel is multiple good ideas, good plots and subplots, stitched together.

When did you decide to write a novel?

Click to expand...

I'd started writing many novels when I was very young, and finished none of them. I got to about 25 or 50 or even 100 pages every time and hit a dead end or became disenchanted with the story (which is something any novelist must be prepared for by the way. This still happens to me.) When I was when I was 17 years old, I finally completed the first draft of a 90,000 word manuscript. I think I'd just been going through some really tough, personal things at that period of time and I couldn't properly articulate it through poetry or through short stories the way I had been. I also think it was at a time where I felt I had read enough literature to have a proper understanding of how novels work, if only in the most basic of ways. I've only attempted one other novel besides that one, which I'm working on now, and there's not really much of a connection between the two, topically, stylistically, or otherwise. I think you just have to find a topic or a theme that interests you, and also one that you are willing to commit a large amount of your time to.

Anyways, I hope some of this made sense and was helpful!

"Should people start a novel as soon as they like or write shorter works until they hone their writing skills?" - Start a novel as soon as you like. There is no time like the present.

I would like to write longer work at some point, but would it be wiser to concentrate on short stories until my style becomes good enough to be publishable? (That or should novel writing be purely therapeutic for enjoyment?) - See my answer above and get or hire an editor to guide you along the way.

Along with that, how does one decide whether his or her idea is good enough to expand into a novel rather than a short story? Or are those two mediums even comparable? - You'll figure that out on your own - just do it.

Some writers (e.g. Daniel Keyes and Flowers for Algernon and Orson Scott Card with Ender's Game) expanded their shorts into books, AFTER their short stories were incredibly well-received. - That's them. You're you. Write the novel.

Write your novel. Start tonight. No more stalling.


And here's two quotes for you that I love -

Nothing in the world can take the place of Persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'Press On' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race. (Calvin Coolidge)

Just do It (Nike)

Write what you need to to tell the story.

I just wanna know what the different 'skill set' is that you need to have when you switch from writing novels to shorts or vice versa.

Is it writing interesting sentences? Writing a compelling plot? Creating engaging characters?

A story is a story to me, just one's longer than the other.

From my experience (and hopefully this reflects 'conventional wisdom'), the short story requires more 'immediacy' - you have to capture your readers' attention much more quickly, you have to contain the plot (not a lot of room for subplots), you have to humanize your characters sooner - everything has to be more concise.

The novel allows you more time to develop all of the above - but at the same time, requires that you keep the readers' interest for a much longer time. One of the reasons subplots are so valuable and necessary. There can be more detail in descriptions and set-ups - but that leads to the temptation to be verbose. There is also the problem of wandering off course, something that's harder to do with a short story.

Like I say, this is from my experience - I'm sure there are other differences I missed.

If your story demands the length of a novel, then by all means, write it. If all else fails, it will be a good learning experience.

Read. Read. Read.

Then Write. Write. Write.


Rinse and repeat.


And as others have said, short stories are not a training ground for novel writing. They are a goal into themselves, with their own issues and needed skills.


My best advice is to write and see where it goes. I've found I'm a more natural short story writer. I then tried my hand at novels and found I just didn't have a knack for the longer format.


Read a lot. Write a lot. And in the process you might discover where your strengths lie.

I have written so many kinds of things, and because I had that experience I thought I could just sit down and--BAM!--write an awesome novel! Not so much. Turns out you really have to practice. And become slightly obsessed. And give up on personal hygeine. Stuff like that. If novels are your goal, I would just concentrate on novels.

Writing a novel is like any other skill set. You learn as you go...but you have to "practice". You become a novelist after you've written a novel (or 2 or 3, etc.). You just have to sit down and start writing. And don't stop until you're done.

caliph said:

Should people start a novel as soon as they like or write shorter works until they hone their writing skills?

Click to expand...

Novels and short stories are different things, with different conventions and techniques. If you want to be a novelist, start by writing a novel.

Alternately, write a short story and then expand it into a novel, which I've done a couple of times.