Opting Out of a Body Scan May Not Be the Better Choice
- Thread starter Alpha Echo
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Besides what I said in this thread, all I can say is it is not a good thing that they're allowed to yell and harangue for this. You can get punished for opting out now?
Ridiculous.
Ridiculous.
I'm all about security and I've had to "pat down" a number of people during my career*, but what gets me here (with the TSA in general) is the sheer level of unprofessionalism. It's sickening.
With the current economy and increasing levels of unemployment, surely there are better 'qualified' security screeners available for hire...
*[NOT with the TSA/DHS...and I never ridiculed or belittled anyone, etc. There's no need for such behavior.]
With the current economy and increasing levels of unemployment, surely there are better 'qualified' security screeners available for hire...
*[NOT with the TSA/DHS...and I never ridiculed or belittled anyone, etc. There's no need for such behavior.]
If we could convince families with kids etc to opt out, we would get somewhere. I can tell you that when my family and I go to NY in February, we are ALL opting out. They aren't going to have one lone wolf to deal with, they are going to have all of us, and I want to see these mental pygmies try to intimidate me. I will use the opportunity to yell back, "Maybe these people are unaware that you're JUICING their kids, but I won't have you bombarding my kids." I think that intimidation is a two way street. Maybe I'll subpoena the security footage and scrutinize the manner in which the pat downs are conducted to see if they conform with standards or if they are gatuitous, perhaps charges can be brought against the screener. These people need to be put on the defensive IMMEDIATELY, if this kind of thing is going to be stopped.
This is AMERICA, and it's time for us to start acting like it. This whole process and the public's tolerance says one thing to me, "The terrorists have already won." That's the way these screenings should be sold to the people... as anti-American and as an admission of DEFEAT.
End of rant... carry on
This is AMERICA, and it's time for us to start acting like it. This whole process and the public's tolerance says one thing to me, "The terrorists have already won." That's the way these screenings should be sold to the people... as anti-American and as an admission of DEFEAT.
End of rant... carry on
Interesting, thanks for posting. I'm still undecided on whether I'll opt out the next time I have the choice. So far, I haven't been to an aiport that has the scanners, but I probably will go to one at some point.
If there's someone who knows more about the technology or the reasoning behind the procedures, I'd like to know: why do they ask you to empty your pockets? Is it because the machines can't tell if there's a weapon inside them, or maybe because it obstructs the view of the body?
How can they even tell that you've complied?
If there's someone who knows more about the technology or the reasoning behind the procedures, I'd like to know: why do they ask you to empty your pockets? Is it because the machines can't tell if there's a weapon inside them, or maybe because it obstructs the view of the body?
How can they even tell that you've complied?
Michael Wolfe,
Here's an entire MB dedicated to related topics (not sure it'll be much help as I'm not sure I'd call anyone posting an "expert"--seems to be a lot of frequent flyers! ):
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel-safety-security/1134610-body-scanners-empty-your-pockets.html
Here's an entire MB dedicated to related topics (not sure it'll be much help as I'm not sure I'd call anyone posting an "expert"--seems to be a lot of frequent flyers!
):http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel-safety-security/1134610-body-scanners-empty-your-pockets.html
Those are points I never thought of. If they can't see what's inside your pockets when you're doing the scan, than what the hell's the point? How the hell could they see a weapon hidden inside your body?
This is how I see it as well. Our reaction to the threat of terrorism can itself be a security failure. In a country that is utterly committed to liberty and maintaining it even under threat, then our enemies fail even if their attacks occassionally succeed. But if we implement ridiculous security measures, especially after incidents like the failed Christmas day bomber, then the Christmas day bomber and his backers win, even though the attack itself failed.
It makes a world of difference.
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Not to be a broken record, but it's still just the illusion of security that these scanners play into.
Tack on the sheer ballsy intrusiveness of them, and I'm astonished that the sheep can't be persuaded it's abuse.
Tack on the sheer ballsy intrusiveness of them, and I'm astonished that the sheep can't be persuaded it's abuse.
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Thanks to nerve damage, many days I'd not be able to physically comply. I guess it's one more reason not to fly.
More power to you, and I hope more people take this attitude. Personally, my last commercial flight was in 2000.
Oh, and I'll bake you a cake with a file in it. Just let me know the address of the FEMA camp where you all end up.
This is AMERICA, and it's time for us to start acting like it. This whole process and the public's tolerance says one thing to me, "The terrorists have already won." That's the way these screenings should be sold to the people... as anti-American and as an admission of DEFEAT.
End of rant... carry on
The terrorists won when the Patriot Act and the Aviation and Transportation Security Act of 2001 were passed.
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I don't know about those machines specifically, but I assume they are based on conventional X-Rays, simply filmless and rendered digitally which is the trend in medicine as well. If so, each layer of anything that creates a density interface between the air pocket or object next to it will show up as a blurred area with a linear demarkation ranging from a whisp to a line at the borders. So basically, the more stuff in your pockets the more it blurs things. Something secretted inside a body cavity to not sho up would have to measure as the same density as flesh as far as the X-Rays are concerned and not have an interface between its borders and your flesh so that no "borders" are created to produce a line. Metal objects will block all X-Rays and shine up as a star in the night (or a photgraphic negative of that depending upon your settings).
Don't we put peeping toms and gropers in jail, unless they work for the government? Maybe they should just be given jobs with the TSA in an effort to rehabilitate them.
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Just be sure to buy one of those plane tickets that allow you to catch a later flight for minimal or no additional fee when you miss the first flight. Also since you probably will have already checked your bags, they will be on a separate flight allowing them to rummage through it by mandate. Any prescription meds in there that have street value will have been removed "for your saftey".
Thanks for the detailed explanation. So it sounds like the deal with the machines is they can tell you've got something in your pockets or on your body, but wouldn't necessarily be able to differentiate between dangerous objects and harmless ones.
Which is a common theme with the TSA - that's partly why you can't bring liquids on the plane, for example.
The airlines are so stupid. What we'll be opting out of, to the extent possible, is air travel.
For our last big company trip (7 people travelling to an industry event) we rented a couple of SUVs. When we factored in the airport security requirement that we arrive 90 minutes before take-off, driving added just one hour to our total travel time. We had no airport parking fees, no luggage fees, no ticket fees. We would have had to rent autos anyway once we arrived, and renting them in our hometown was much cheaper than in the big city where the event took place.
We saved thousands of dollars and a buttload of hassles. Nothing was delayed or cancelled. We chose our own departure times. The accommodations were comfortable instead of cramped. We were exposed to fewer cold and flu viruses. The food was safer.
There will always be some trips where we'll have no choice but to fly. But where we do have any choice at all, we'll be happy to drive from now on.
Every time the airlines find a new way to cut corners or add to travel hassles, they make the alternatives more attractive.
For our last big company trip (7 people travelling to an industry event) we rented a couple of SUVs. When we factored in the airport security requirement that we arrive 90 minutes before take-off, driving added just one hour to our total travel time. We had no airport parking fees, no luggage fees, no ticket fees. We would have had to rent autos anyway once we arrived, and renting them in our hometown was much cheaper than in the big city where the event took place.
We saved thousands of dollars and a buttload of hassles. Nothing was delayed or cancelled. We chose our own departure times. The accommodations were comfortable instead of cramped. We were exposed to fewer cold and flu viruses. The food was safer.
There will always be some trips where we'll have no choice but to fly. But where we do have any choice at all, we'll be happy to drive from now on.
Every time the airlines find a new way to cut corners or add to travel hassles, they make the alternatives more attractive.
Perhaps, although the airlines aren't the ones implementing these security measures.
On the professionalism of the people working at the airport: last time I flew, the security guy looked me up and down and said "You just won the nudie scanner bingo." I thought my husband was going to kill him.
Flying shouldn't be creepy.
Flying shouldn't be creepy.
I flew on the 29th to go to a rugby tournament. I was glad to find that they waved me through the regular metal detector because I was ready to refuse the body scan. I'm only pretty sure that when I was little, this used to be a less fragile, panicky country than it is now.
My hubs works for an airline (aircraft mechanic) and flying free is one of the few perks left - though even the extent of that benefit has been cut.
Anyway - as often as I/we could fly, we don't. We only fly when we're crunched for time.
In March I flew to New England for my grandmother's 90th bday. I complied with their full body scanner - I'd rather be x-rayed than groped, poked, and proded any day - at the airports that had them. At the one that didn't, a forgotten bottle of perfume introduced me to a woman I felt afterward I should have at least gotten a glass of wine, maybe a bit of cash from.
Yet not an hour later, these same TSA agents didn't even step around the glass partition when an irrate man let his temper fly in fit worthy of an overtired, sugar-high crashing 2 year old - screaming and cussing, banging on and kicking the podium the ticket agent was standing at - in full view of the TSA. I looked to see if they were doing anything while the ticket agent cringed - they stood and stared, but made no move to help her.
And, yeah, temper tantrum and all, they let the guy get on the plane, which was oversold, while 5 others, including me, were directed to the desk downstairs to make other travel arrangements.
I can't say if these scanners and pat downs deter terrorists or not. I do know that these security measures are humiliating and inconsistent.
And oh, joy, I get to fly next week...
Anyway - as often as I/we could fly, we don't. We only fly when we're crunched for time.
In March I flew to New England for my grandmother's 90th bday. I complied with their full body scanner - I'd rather be x-rayed than groped, poked, and proded any day - at the airports that had them. At the one that didn't, a forgotten bottle of perfume introduced me to a woman I felt afterward I should have at least gotten a glass of wine, maybe a bit of cash from.
Yet not an hour later, these same TSA agents didn't even step around the glass partition when an irrate man let his temper fly in fit worthy of an overtired, sugar-high crashing 2 year old - screaming and cussing, banging on and kicking the podium the ticket agent was standing at - in full view of the TSA. I looked to see if they were doing anything while the ticket agent cringed - they stood and stared, but made no move to help her.
And, yeah, temper tantrum and all, they let the guy get on the plane, which was oversold, while 5 others, including me, were directed to the desk downstairs to make other travel arrangements.
I can't say if these scanners and pat downs deter terrorists or not. I do know that these security measures are humiliating and inconsistent.
And oh, joy, I get to fly next week...
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What a lovely example of a well-adjusted and professional human being. Do I even need the sign?
It might encourage them. The more we willingly dismantle our own liberties, the more they see that terrorist attacks are successful.
After reading all of the comments here, I feel stupid. I don't see what the problem is, but I chalk that up to being, as I said, stupid.