The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

JohnJStephens said:

Thank you for the explanation. This cult film making business is something I know very little about.

In the UK there is a very powerful actor's union (Equity) which controls professional appearances. I don't know if they also control unpaid actors who appear in commercial movies, but I suspect they do. I assume that such unions do not exist in the US, or they are far less powerful.

Click to expand...

We have the same elitist crap here, too. It may even be worse. There is a growing sub-culture of Independent Film makers/followers in the U.S., but it's nothing compared to the rest of the world (yet).

As a note: My two sons have spoiled me for Hollywood anymore. I've watched more foreign and Indie films in the last five years than you can imagine. I will tell you this—if the big guys keep churning out the same formulaic waste of celluloid, they may soon find themselves losing money on every one. We can only hope.

Independent film production is getting far off-topic. There's a whole board here where such a discussion might be more useful.

Isn't this thread about the cult-like mentality and devious, evil practices of PA? The printing company? The one that lies, steals and cheats from authors, sea to shining sea even when it's red tide?

Aren't we getting way off topic again?

Just when we should be addressing PA's latest grab at funds from their authors. I refer, as most "unhappy" authors will know, to that last classic example of weasel-wording, on which Uncle Jim did a very good line by line. I duly received my copy yesterday and responded in like: "Stop spamming my e-mail. Only a fool would fall for this! Have a good day."

Please, please PA authors do not fall for the "Christmas grab" - surely you have better things to do with your money than give it to a Company which does not even have the courage to admit that they conned you all on the "returnability" issue.

If this is a good time to sell our books, then why isn't PA making a concerted effort to do so? Why should we? We won't be paid any royalties and so only PA will profit. Think about it!

Just my two cents worth!

postshy/Roberta

We were talking about returns, weren't we, before we got sidetracked? PA really doesn't like it when we talk about returns, which indicates to me that we ought to do it.

Aconite said:

We were talking about returns, weren't we, before we got sidetracked? PA really doesn't like it when we talk about returns, which indicates to me that we ought to do it.

Click to expand...

What returns? Oh, the ones they're lying about I have to keep checking my notes to keep all those lies straight, have 'em alphabetized ya know.

Interesting...

I am going to go off the topic a bit. Haven't been around for the last few weeks, due to sickness, holiday, etc...

I was just on the PA board and the discussion about HB Marcus's disappearing act sure stirred up a hornet's nest. http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=8461

I find it interesting that PA will delete those who bash PA, but they won't bash authors bashing each other! It also seems like the authors at PA can bash other people who don't like PubliSHAMerica, but can't take it, when they get bashed! Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!

Just something to ponder...

momwrites said:

I am going to go off the topic a bit. Haven't been around for the last few weeks, due to sickness, holiday, etc...

I was just on the PA board and the discussion about HB Marcus's disappearing act sure stirred up a hornet's nest. http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=8461

I find it interesting that PA will delete those who bash PA, but they won't bash authors bashing each other! It also seems like the authors at PA can bash other people who don't like PubliSHAMerica, but can't take it, when they get bashed! Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!

Just something to ponder...

Click to expand...

I find this PA thing totally surreal - the PA message board is unbelievable.
It can't be real? They're talking about PA as if it's some big happy family - verging on being a cult!

I'm sure I saw someone had a novel called called "memories of a forgotten past." It can't be real. It can't.

Flapdoodle said:

I find this PA thing totally surreal - the PA message board is unbelievable.
It can't be real? They're talking about PA as if it's some big happy family - verging on being a cult!

I'm sure I saw someone had a novel called called "memories of a forgotten past." It can't be real. It can't.

Click to expand...

Try to keep in mind: many of the authors there are not "writers", in the classic sense; i.e., writing every day (or often), honing their verbal skills, striving towards publishability, etc. Many are also new to the Internet message/chat phenomena, as well. Combine those two traits and you have someone who is inordinately pleased with the PA "lifestyle", if you will.

When you add the threat of losing a new-found and enjoyable daily experience by saying the wrong thing, you get a LOT of positive and naive-appearing posts. It's not so much a "cult" as it is a club with a lot of rules.

Flapdoodle said:

I find this PA thing totally surreal - the PA message board is unbelievable.
It can't be real? They're talking about PA as if it's some big happy family - verging on being a cult!

I'm sure I saw someone had a novel called called "memories of a forgotten past." It can't be real. It can't.

Click to expand...

Believe it; its real, and to make things worse, talk about someone who is not just vain but selfish, has a big head, you name it-

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=8149

I am just glad I only had one book with them and that my other three are getting published with a REAL publisher. I would NEVER suggest to all "16,000 happy authors" to buy my book!

Wow, I never said anything on the PA board and yet, I can't, for the life of me, get in. Of course, what I WAS going to write would have gotten erased anyway, but gee, I am crushed!

I guess they think I'm getting kind of annoying, since e-mailing them weekly to demand my rights back.

Yeah and what makes matters worse is now all these goddamn interviews I'm doing is attached to PA. It makes me crazier by the minute.


Check this out.

www.sussexcountian.com

when you click on the link click on COMMUNITY and read the first article which starts off " local Author Sophomore Effort."

Now, it's a bit embarrasing.

Eric-

can you tell I was drunk when I managed the interview?

30.000 copies...I WISH!! HAH!

It's 8,000, I SUCK! Unless someone's seriously lied to me!

If I sold 30,000 books, I wouldn't have trouble finding another agent!

Hi Jack. First off, Welcome, although I see you have posted once before.

I know your book was published in 2004, but that apart, have I got you right?

Are you saying that after doing all your research you went with Publish America knowing that your book would not be on any bookstore shelves, would not be edited, would not be marketed or distributed, would not be reviewed, would not receive any publicity, be overpriced and in addition give you no credit in the Publishing world?

Don't blame Publish America for deliberately deceptive and misleading advertising?

You may find a little back-reading on this thread helpful before posting queries.

Jack Christopher said:

I may have been more informed about contracts since it was part of a business class I took. But i did some research on publishing contracts (google) and found the information I needed explained (even though I know most of the points) but I learned what the publishing standards were and when it came time to ask for what I wanted, I got what I expected to get. I really feel for some authors that don't do any advance research then get upset.

And don't blame publishamerica for it either, as I recall the country band Dixie Chicks were getting ripped by Sony unknowingly until Dan Rather interviewed them and asked 'why aren't you rich?'

Dixie Chicks, I'd forgotten all about them and their situation until I read this guys post.

Click to expand...

Jack Christopher said:

I know that PA now accepts returns from booksellers that have titles to return. But I also know that they initially accepted them instantly from Ingram on titles that sold at least a certain amount. other titles would be included as time went on or obviously as books were sold, then returned.

I need to know, where is the lie that is being referred to since I haven't dealt with that yet.

Click to expand...

Hello Jack. I'm presuming you are published with Publish America? Has your book been published yet? Is it returnable? Do you know this for a fact (as in you've check through the Ingram's information line or had a bookstore look it up) or are you relying on what Publish America has told you?

The thing is that Publish America has told many authors that their books are returnable when they aren't. And even those that are now returnable are set at such a tiny discount that no bookstore would make money from ordering the books, returnability or no.

The NEPAT can be daunting. But there's a condensed thread "Reasons why we don't recommend Publsih America" which contains the highlights of why Publish America is not a good idea.

Jack Christopher said:

And don't blame publishamerica for it either,

Click to expand...

Jack, are you aware of what appallingly bad manners it is to hop onto this board, having read NONE of the backthread--as you admitted--and tell everyone here they're wrong without knowing a damned thing about why they've said what they have?

Oh! Duh. I just realized that we started talking about returns on this thread and suddenly there's another detour. We really should stick to that topic. It seems to be productive.

What I find most amusing is that everyone KNEW there would be a problem. They attempted to persuade people they were going to be using returnability with the Independence Books program as well, and that never panned out either.

The truth of the matter is, PA is never going to do ANYTHING that has even a remote chance of not making them money. They know selling to their authors will, so that's what they're going to stick with - forever.

Jack... Take it from me and many others. I recently joined AW. I have a new novel out by PA called " THE WORK" And already I have benefited from all of the posts I have read. I am continuing to read more. I strongly imploy that you cut your ties with Publish Assholia and commit to reality. Everything these people are saying is true.

I recently conducted a few articles as you'll see one of them in a post above. I have an article following this one coming out in mid-December. It will be in the Ephrata Review. A rather small newspaper company in Pennsylvania. It will probably get me killed. I told the reporter all about my first novel which was traditionally published, even though it was independent. And I told them all about the second. And what the differences were between that and being traditionally " raped of my own good faith" As I said before, I plan to write a novel about a man who has had enough of PA and claims revenge against the Publishing House. The lies take him over the edge.

I'm done ****ing around. Sooner or later, the revolution will begin.

I hope you're along for the ride Jack.

See you soon.

Eric-

Hi all! I'm back! And I actually caught up on this whole thread just now! (Next, the Overflow. Will someone send over a pizza? It's gonna be a long night.)

A few things: Welcome back, Eric. Very glad you're here. Promise me you'll never talk about harming yourself again. You can and will pick yourself up from this and move on and sell more books. Meanwhile, your bravery in coming back here and telling us what happened is going to serve as an important warning to those on the fence about PA. Want proof? While I was away (in Florida), I got a message from a fellow who was about to sign with PA until he read this thread. It's a thank you note for saving him, and it came a day or two after you showed up here. So you now know that you had a hand in helping a fellow writer avoid a big mistake.

I can speak with a little knowledge about returnability and discounting because we're experiencing it with Stories of Strength, too. That's the book a bunch of us here released through Lulu for disaster relief. We wanted to price the book reasonably-- $15.95 through bookstores for a 316-page book-- and Lulu had to do some juggling around of figures to make that work and still have a decent royalty for us to be able to donate (just under $3 per book for bookstore sales, compared to $5.09 for copies sold direct through Lulu). They had to lower their discount to 36% (their usual is 40%), and even that's a killer for many bookstores. For many bookstores, 40% is the bare minimum they're allowed to take. That doesn't even address the returnability issue.

In most cases, you can have one strike against you. You can have a slightly lower-than-normal discount, OR a nonreturnable book, OR not-so-hot cover art, etc., but you can't pile on more than one and still expect a store manager to make exceptions. 5% is a joke. The bookstore WILL lose money on that, so it makes no sense whatsoever for them to stock the book. Nonreturnable and 20% discount makes no sense, either. Then add on the fact that the books are unedited, have no publicity behind them, and so on, and the bookstore managers would have to be nuts-- or ridiculously charitable-- to think about stocking.

Anyway, lots more to catch up on. See you soon!

Thanks for the warm hug Jenna! I'm glad to be here. I don't usually feel my heart beat. As a matter of fact. I sometimes forget it's there at all. You just made it swell talking about saving that gentleman from disaster.

No, I won't harm myself. I'm already busily writing a new book and trying to decide if an old manuscript about a vampire's daughter being the victim of a brutal killer is viable enough to pursue. Or if I should wait until the vampire market booms again. Some people believe it's not the market that matters as much as how well you tell the tale, and how articulate you are as a writer. I'm sitting on it for now.

I wish I could sacrifice myself to save the blood being spilled by PA, any suggestions I will act upon.

Anyway, thanks again, now I'm off to query more agents.

Eric-