Heinlein reconsidered

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Hmm. Well I'll take your word for it if you're familiar with his body of work; I, however, am not. SiaSL will be the first Heinlein I've ever read.

Oh, you've just reminded me of Richard Laymon. In nearly every one of his books, a woman gets raped. Graphically. I see your point now, as the same act repeated over a series of novels becomes more than "Just what a character says or does," and hints at, "Authorial fetish."
 

kuwisdelu

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From Wikipedia:

Arguably, Heinlein's treatment of female characters provides an example of a sexually liberated attitude, working against generally accepted stereotypes. Beginning with For Us, the Living, Heinlein's female characters of all ages were generally competent, intelligent, courageous, powerful, and in control of their lives and situations to the extent circumstances permitted. Those few of his female characters who are weak or helpless are held in contempt by other characters (including other females). Yet even the strongest of these characters (Podkayne of Mars and Star in Glory Road are examples) nonetheless suggest that they are willing to submit to physical punishment or control from stronger male figures.

In other characters, Heinlein also incorporated elements of the mid-twentieth century female stereotype in certain characters. In Double Star, for example, the secretary, Penny, while smart and competent, allows her emotions to affect her work — and eventually fulfills the dream of many Fifties secretaries by marrying her boss. Elspeth, in Starman Jones, pretends to be less intelligent than she is and permits Max to "teach" her three-dimensional chess (of which she is a champion) in order to have a better chance to catch his romantic interest. A character in Citizen of the Galaxy similarly allows Thorby to "teach" her mathematics (despite the fact, unknown to Thorby, that she has taught advanced mathematics) for a similar purpose. However, many of the juveniles feature intelligent young women who help save the day (from The Star Beast to Between Planets) — although again most are stereotypically portrayed by being romantically inclined towards the protagonists.

Gary Westfahl points out that "Heinlein is a problematic case for feminists; on the one hand, his works often feature strong female characters and vigorous statements that women are equal to or even superior to men; but these characters and statements often reflect hopelessly stereotypical attitudes about typical female attributes. It is disconcerting, for example, that in Expanded Universe Heinlein calls for a society where all lawyers and politicians are women, essentially on the grounds that they possess a mysterious feminine practicality that men cannot duplicate."
 

Pthom

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I don't recommend that those who have not read Heinlein begin with Stranger in a Strange Land. Rather, start with one of his juveniles. Seriously. They are probably, more than any other, the reason he is considered the granddaddy of SF.
 

dclary

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I don't recommend that those who have not read Heinlein begin with Stranger in a Strange Land. Rather, start with one of his juveniles. Seriously. They are probably, more than any other, the reason he is considered the granddaddy of SF.

I highly recommend "Have Spacesuit, Will Travel" and "Farmer in the Sky" -- two of my favorites. Next to Starship Troopers, which is the classic of classics IMO.

I never cared for Stranger in a Strange Land.
 

Gillhoughly

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Yeah, yeah, he had "strong" female characters, who, despite being redheads, always managed to get naked and serve drinks to their men.

AS IF.

They were liberated for the era, but not the ERA.



I'll side with Lois McMaster Bujold's heroines.

Forget "Admiral Naismith," it's his mother, Captain Naismith, you have to watch out for!
 

dpaterso

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I dunno, Friday was a kick-ass replicant who played by her own rules. But, can't argue with the general trend, I s'ppose.

-Derek
 

Pthom

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A Heinlein love/hate discussion.
 

ChaosTitan

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I don't recommend that those who have not read Heinlein begin with Stranger in a Strange Land. Rather, start with one of his juveniles. Seriously. They are probably, more than any other, the reason he is considered the granddaddy of SF.

Guess I did it backwards. Stranger is the only book of Heinlein's that I've read. :eek:
 

HeronW

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I enjoyed Heinlein's food scenes--he did meals that encompassed much more than eating to survive--folks ate to share their lives and loves with each other. He repeated himself with the multiple parent families and who has power over whom with sex but most of what I disagreed with I blew off as his scifi characters, the worlds, the social situations, etc. It's fiction, opinion, alternate realities, not fact.
 

benbradley

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Napkins anyone?
Yes, please!
A Heinlein love/hate discussion.
Perhaps not Heinlein himself so much as his characters. :e2brows:
I enjoyed Heinlein's food scenes--he did meals that encompassed much more than eating to survive--folks ate to share their lives and loves with each other. He repeated himself with the multiple parent families and who has power over whom with sex but most of what I disagreed with I blew off as his scifi characters, the worlds, the social situations, etc. It's fiction, opinion, alternate realities, not fact.
He even used food and drink to make a political/economic point in the TANSTAAFL chapter/section of "The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress."

"So is it just me, or is this food extra salty"

TANSTAAFL is surely the best-known initialism of its length.
 
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