Learn Writing with Uncle Jim, Volume 1

Nangleator · Oct 8, 2006

Excellent question. I view them as a means of changing the reader's focus in order to:

1) Skip over boring bits of the main character's timeline;

or

2) Build tension by creating a cliff hanger situation. (Cliff hangers at the end of chapters build tension only for as long as it takes to turn the page.)

ProsperitySue · Oct 8, 2006

I think that's a good question, too, and am looking forward to UJ's response.

I don't see them as much in short novels, but in longer ones you can have minor characters in a subplot seeing and doing things that the main characters wouldn't do. In a novel with humor, a subplot can have a humorous thread that I look forward to.

Sometimes a minor character in a subplot offers so much that they appear as the main character in other books. I've known cases where the readers wrote and asked for them to have their own story.

I think in a series there can be an agency, planet or federation that offers a subplot and provides a familiar background for whatever action the main characters get involved in.

Unfortunately, I can't offer advice on writing them. I'm BIC, but floundering -- doing much better at reading than writing at this point, but I'm having fun with it. I'd like to hear how it goes with you as you develop this skill.

Nangleator · Oct 8, 2006

Another use of subplots:

I had a mystery for my MC to solve, and various minor characters unearthed clues in their subplots. Later on, the MC interacted with these characters, and collected these clues to solve the mystery.

James D. Macdonald · Oct 8, 2006

If you don't have subplots, what you have is a short story.

Subplots add depth and richness to your novel by comparing, contrasting, and supporting the theme.

Think of counterpoint and harmonies in music. Those are subplots.

DamaNegra · Oct 9, 2006

Thanks for the feedback!

Now, let's pretend I can't hold more than 1 storyline in my head as I'm writing. And let's pretend I'm so stubborn decide to include 3 subplots in my novel. How do I keep track of them? How do I write them into the novel?

And antother question. Subplots are rigidly for supporting characters or can the MC take part in them?

Liam Jackson · Oct 9, 2006

Dama, Jim's Celtic Knot is a great model for designing and tracking the flow of intertwining plots. Another useful device is a simple Excel spread sheet.

Subplots need not be terribly complicated or convoluted. In fact, they can be used to simply add depth to a MC.

This may be a cheesy example, but it's an example, nonetheless.
Your MC is trying to save the world by tracking down a bad guy who possesses a deadly mutated virus. However, she has a real prick for an ex-husband to contend with. The guy has trumped up a number of phoney harrassment charges, and now the local authorities are searching for our heroine, to jail her on a series of misdemeanor warrants. Meanwhile, the wingnut ex-husband has taken the couple's only child from the home of our heroine's mom (who was babysitting) and plans to leave the state. So our heroine...

In short, just because the MC has the main plot to contend with, other facets of her life do not cease to exist or willingly place themselves on hold. Deciding where to interject those other elements is just a matter of timing motivation. Jim's model is a good place to start.

DamaNegra · Oct 9, 2006

Liam Jackson said:
In short, just because the MC has the main plot to contend with, other facets of her life do not cease to exist or willing place themselves on hold.

Aha! You nailed it! Thanks!

That was exactly my problem all along!

Although I'd had a heart attack if I had to create something like this!

Lilybiz · Oct 9, 2006

subplots

I find what Jim said about supporting the theme to be so meaningful.

A basic example would be a theme of romance, where a main character is in search of it. As the MC goes about her quest for Mr. Right, her best friend picks up losers in bars. Her pal at work is engaged to a rich guy who's crazy about her. The MC's parents are in the process of a divorce. But the MC can visit her grandparents for lunch; they've been together for fifty years. She learns from all the examples around her. Etc.

A little obvious and simple, but variations on a theme.

I'm also reminded of the adage which I'll now misquote (someone will tell us who said it): put your character up a tree and throw rocks at him.

What Liam added, then, illustrates a way to include subplots--not just as stuff thrown in, but as rocks thrown at your character once he or she is up the three. Your subplot doesn't have to be, but can be, your character's hurdles/rocks/stumbling blocks.

AnneMarble · Oct 9, 2006

James D. Macdonald said:
Oh. I've just heard that Amazon now allows folks to comment on the reviews posted there.

I can't wait for the comment wars to start.

OTOH I can see where it would be useful for readers

D) to point out errors in a review, etc.

James D. Macdonald said:
If I catch anyone from here commenting on reviews on your own book, I will come to your house and mock you in person. ABM, y'know?

What about authors who respond to reviews about their friends' books? On some romance blogs, I recently saw posts by authors who admitted that they realized responding to a review of their own book is a bad idea. But they had no problems about responding to negative reviews of their friends' books. Unless they are correction errors or something like that (and maybe not even then), are they really doing their friends any favors by doing this? Especially these days, where one little line by an author can end up being held up for ridicule on dozens of reader blogs.
:Shrug:

James D. Macdonald · Oct 10, 2006

Replying to reviews is always problematical. I'd avoid doing it. If you must, write a review of your own.

JohnLynch · Oct 11, 2006

Well been a while since I last posted here. But if at first you don't suceed, go on a hiatus then try again

I went through the last few posts and saw the last challenge was to write a plan that happened before Plan Nine of Plan Nine from Outer Space fame. So here's mine:

Plan One from Outer Space

Idea
The plan was created by Agency 13 within the Mars Union to establish a colony on one of Jupiter's many moons. This new colony is to act as a training ground for a powerful military force for any upcoming threats that the union may face. Unfortunately Agency 13 lost all contact with the colony 6 months ago.

First 100 words
The cart was mostly silent, except for the teenagers a few seats behind him. He had tried reading today's newspaper on the screen in front of him, but their chatter kept interrupting him. Someone had attempted to blow up the water pumps in Galle once more. The Homeland Unionists were being blamed once again. Mahavir was wondering if they even existed when the kids jostled past him. Finally, some peace and quiet.

Outside the sparse red sands gave way to the dark tunnel of the train station. Mahavir wondered where the teenagers were going, did they all live nearby? Not much to do in Herod station and no trains connected for them to be going anywhere but back to Aban. Had he heard them talking about some party tonight? They were annoying.

The train started moving once more. Mahavir's stop was next. Then it was only a small taxi ride to home. Laryssa was nagging him again. She was desperate for them to move off the farm and into Aban, closer to work. Closer to civilization. But his brother Bala had given his life to make the home. Besides, Mahavir liked the solitude.

After the taxi ride, Mahavir hopped paid the cab and hopped out. He went through the airlocks before opening the outside lock for the taxi to leave. He turned around and immediately knew something was wrong. The front door was left ajar. "Larys? You there Laryssa?" Of course she was, she would have called if she was going anywhere. Besides, where would she have gone? He slowly stepped into the kitchen. On the floor was a trail of blood leading into the pantry.

Last Line
Mahavir looked out the window of the shuttle down at the moon. Should be the last time he ever saw it again. Good.

Not terribly original, but it doesn't need to be original, it needs to be finished.

James D. Macdonald · Oct 11, 2006

Bravo!

Forbidden Snowflake · Oct 12, 2006

The subplots are my main problem at the moment.
I usually end up with more or less terrific ideas for my hero and sidekicks, have it all worked out, backgroundstory, twist, everything and then I start writing and I'm all excited.
Missing a real story though, something that is actually going on next to that bone I have, some flesh, I just write and then find myself done after 15 pages and the story is gone.

I just don't manage to add flesh, I get stuck on it.

James D. Macdonald · Oct 12, 2006

Snowflake, it might be time for you to read closely and analyse some of your favorite books to see how those authors did it.

Sesselja · Oct 12, 2006

DamaNegra said:
Although I'd had a heart attack if I had to create something like this!

You don't have to make it as complicated as that one. For my current project, I use 3 strings braided together as the design for the structure of the novel: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Braid_final_rot.jpg

Each string is a plot/subplot: The red is the main character's search for love, the blue is her struggle with her mother, and the black is her best friend's struggle with her family situation. It's the first time I have used such a visual design for a story structure, but it has helped me organise all the material in my head.

Forbidden Snowflake · Oct 12, 2006

James D. Macdonald said:
Snowflake, it might be time for you to read closely and analyse some of your favorite books to see how those authors did it.

I am trying to do that. It's helping a lot.

James D. Macdonald · Oct 13, 2006

Woo! Viable Paradise is winding down. Next year!

Nangleator · Oct 13, 2006

Congrats! Wish I had been there.

K_Woods · Oct 14, 2006

Darn, I don't think I'm going to be in shape for submitting for the '07 workshop...of course, there's the matter of cost, too. It sounds like a blast.

I do have a question regarding pseudonyms, though, which I don't recall seeing in the archive: I recall reading somewhere (Miss Snark, maybe?) that an author using any name other than their legal one (as a first-timer, that is) stands out as a red flag, the reasoning being that if you aren't confident enough to be published under your legal name, why should anyone publish you under a pseudonym? (I may be getting the reasoning tangled here, it's been a while since I read it.)

In my case, I don't really want to use a pseudonym, per se, but my maiden name. It's silly, maybe, but artistically I identify myself with the name my parents gave me. On the other hand, if it's just going to stack the deck against me, it's probably not worth it.

I'm really hoping I either misread things or am very confused on the matter, but I figured best to ask a professional.

DamaNegra · Oct 14, 2006

As Jim has said, pseudonyms can be a way from diferentiating different genres, so K Woods would write horror but if you wanted to write romance, you could do it under the name of J Brady so no one will get confused.

The agent thing is not true, what Miss Snark said is that you needed to approach the agent with your real name and THEN tell her about your desire for a pseudonym. Of course, all legal papers have to be signed under your legal name.

James D. Macdonald · Oct 14, 2006

Our friend Sherwood Smith has been publishing under that name since her first book. This isn't in any way even close to her legal name.

Without having read Miss Snark's remark I can't say anything about her specific issue. In my own experience, the name on the cover of the book is a matter between you and the publisher.

K_Woods · Oct 14, 2006

DamaNegra said:
As Jim has said, pseudonyms can be a way from diferentiating different genres, so K Woods would write horror but if you wanted to write romance, you could do it under the name of J Brady so no one will get confused.

The agent thing is not true, what Miss Snark said is that you needed to approach the agent with your real name and THEN tell her about your desire for a pseudonym. Of course, all legal papers have to be signed under your legal name.

Aha, so it was just a bit of confusion on my part. I feel better now. (Though I don't plan on traipsing down the horror path, heheh.)

Thanks for the answers, both of you!

Ken Schneider · Oct 15, 2006

If you become famous from your writing, a pseudonym isn't going to hide your identity. Someone from your home town will let the cat out of the bag.

Steven King wrote books under a pseudonym, a few, but he isn't hiding, now.

Isn't that what a pseudonym is all about, trying to hide behind a name that you can't be identified by in the phone book.

UJ and Doyle have many books, and will tell you their name is in the phone book.

I do understand the idea for different genres. If you broke into the writing game doing YA books, or children's, and are still doing YA, and want to write erotica....

I guess one needs to figure out why they'd want to use a fake name to start with.

I'll tell you this, it has nothing to do with the glamour of writing, or is a prerequisite for being a novelist.

Theo Neel · Oct 15, 2006

Pseudonyms are a matter of choice and motivated by many things.

Some authors write in different genres and use pen names in each different one.

Some authors use pen names for privacy. There's an awful lot of information available on the internet. Increasingly, it's easier and easier to find out where people live.

Some authors use pen names because their given name is too close to another author's. Some use pen names because their given name is too hard for the average bear to remember, to spell or to say. The latter has to be balanced with the fact that unusual names are memorable on a wholly different level.

At the end of the day, it's up to you.

DamaNegra · Oct 15, 2006

Ken Schneider said:
I do understand the idea for different genres. If you broke into the writing game doing YA books, or children's, and are still doing YA, and want to write erotica....

Hell would break loose among parents

Isn't that what a pseudonym is all about, trying to hide behind a name that you can't be identified by in the phone book.

Not really. If you think your name is too boring, too hard to remember, impossible to pronounce or you're plain bored with it and want to be someone else, you use a pseudonym. Me? I already have 2 pseudonyms: one is just my second name and second last name, and the other is my given Arab name plus a made-up last name.

The first pseudonym I'll use when writing romance. The second, I'm not sure if I'm going to use it but it sounds pretty cool

Learn Writing with Uncle Jim, Volume 1

Rep Point Whore

All is well @>----

Rep Point Whore

Your Genial Uncle

Mexican on the loose!

Heathen Horde Elder

Mexican on the loose!

glad to be here

Nefarious Ghost Fan

Your Genial Uncle

Your Genial Uncle

I'm quite put out.

Your Genial Uncle

Sesselja

I'm quite put out.

Your Genial Uncle

Rep Point Whore

9 of 10 Overlords prefer Evil Pie!

Mexican on the loose!

Your Genial Uncle

9 of 10 Overlords prefer Evil Pie!

Absolute sagebrush

Mexican on the loose!