A GAME OF THRONES (HBO) -- POSSIBLE SPOILERS

DreamWeaver · Jun 7, 2014

Jett. said:
The same site also has recaps in the format of "If GoT took place entirely on Facebook": season-4-episode-8

Manuel Royal · Jun 8, 2014

Well, that was a good intense episode. We see how people's character comes out in times of desperate crisis.

Odd in terms of military history, though. What was up with all the flaming arrows? An arrow flies a lot farther and straighter when it doesn't have a rag that's on fire tied to it.

I hadn't realized that Castle Black isn't a real castle at all; more of a lightly fortified outpost. I've been to real castles that the bunch of cannibal Wildlings south of the wall couldn't have entered if they'd tried for a year.

Rhoda Nightingale · Jun 8, 2014

Is it assumed that we talk spoilers on the most recently aired episode in here? And just do book spoilers in white? 'Cause I can fix it if that's not how it works.

Soooooo, Mom invited herself to watch with me tonight, which I kinda wish she hadn't because I kept spitting out exposition while trying not to miss dialogue. (She's seen zero episodes and knows nothing about this whole story.) It was kinda like this:

MOM: Hey, isn't that the guy who was on your Rolling Stone a few weeks ago?

ME: <GAH, stop making word noises, SWORDS ARE HAPPENING!> Yes, he's my favorite. <Dude, DUDE, don't say that out loud--he'll die now for sure!>

MOM: Oh, white wolf! Wolves are cool!

ME: YES, that's GHOST and he's AWESOME.

MOM: <More things about wolves and how they're awesome.>

ME: <OH GOD STOP TALKING YGRITTE'S SHOOTING AT PEOPLE AND I CAN'T TELL WHO BECAUSE MY GLASSES ARE UPSTAIRS SOMEWHERE.>

Also--Pyp! Grenn! Dammit, Martin! WHY?!!?! Was surprised to see Thorne go down, but I was just starting to like him, so I guess that's typical. Ygritte did not surprise me, but the way it happened did. I knew that was coming. Just . . . damn. That hurt. I was wondering if they'd somehow manage to give Jon/Ygritte a ~Special Moment~ in the middle of all the mayhem, and how--so ta for that, I guess? I'm very conflicted right now. Because I really, really didn't like her as a character, but I get why Jon loved her, and that sucks for him. And I'm wondering if he's serious about killing Mance and whether or not it's the grief talking, and that makes me VERY nervous.

At the end-->

SAM: Jon? Come back?

ME: :e2cry:

WHAT HE SAID.

DreamWeaver · Jun 8, 2014

I get that many people like set piece battles, but unfortunately I'm not one of them. So, did that have to be the Whole. Damn. Episode? Really?

Meh.

J.W. Alden · Jun 8, 2014

Manuel Royal said:
I hadn't realized that Castle Black isn't a real castle at all; more of a lightly fortified outpost. I've been to real castles that the bunch of cannibal Wildlings south of the wall couldn't have entered if they'd tried for a year.

In the books, you get a little backstory about that. The Night's Watch is actually forbidden by law from constructing walls at any of their nineteen castles. This is said primarily to ensure the men are always focused on manning the Wall itself, watching ever northward.

But it's also rumored (whited out, as this may end up being relevant to future events) that this law is actually the result of the Night's King rebellion thousand of years ago, in which the thirteenth Lord Commander of the Night's Watch took an Other/White Walker for his bride and proclaimed himself King of the Wall. It took an alliance between the King in the North (the Lord Commander's own brother, according to Old Nan) and Joramun, the King Beyond The Wall, to bring him down. Thereafter, the building of walls was forbidden at, er, the Wall, to ensure that it was always accessible from the south.

Rhoda Nightingale · Jun 8, 2014

DreamWeaver said:
I get that many people like set piece battles, but unfortunately I'm not one of them. So, did that have to be the Whole. Damn. Episode? Really?

Meh.

Yes. Really. I clapped like a damn chibi. I love me some set piece battles. And watching Kit Harington hit people with swords. If there must gratuitous silliness in this show, I prefer the violent kind. With swords and flaming arrows and CGI-ants.

ZachJPayne · Jun 8, 2014

Yes, J.W. Alden is spot on the money, in re why Castle Black is only lightly fortified.

I also agree that that shouldn't have been the whole episode. I was heavily disappointed. Are they going to save the coup de grace of their situation for the next season, then? Because after that, I'm torn between wanting everybody else getting some focus, and some resolution.

Also, I wasn't sure if I caught it, but did they kill Janos Slynt? If so, I'm going to be pissed the frick off. There's absolutely no reason to change his death from the awesome one he gets in the books.

Rhoda Nightingale · Jun 8, 2014

@ZachJPayne: re your whited-out bit--> I think he was just huddled in the corner in that room with Gilly, but Mom was distracting me, so now I'm not sure.

It's been dawning me for a while now that I'm one of the five people in this fandom that actually prefers the Night's Watch bits to everything else in the show, and would happily watch just the Night's Watch bits to the exclusion of all the other plot threads going on, and I still have no idea why everyone else gets bored here. BUT I have a feeling the cliffhanger we got will persist until next season and we'll spend next week back in King's Landing or something. Just because that's the outcome that would annoy me the most.

CrastersBabies · Jun 8, 2014

I'm so glad they dedicated the whole show to the Wall. This was an absolutely MEGA part in the books with long-reaching outcomes. If I recall, they dedicated most of the Battle of the Blackwater to King's Landing.

Just a stunning episode. I'm still trying to come down off my high. But why unleash Ghost only to show only one shot? Errghh!

dragonjax · Jun 9, 2014

CrastersBabies said:
But why unleash Ghost only to show only one shot? Errghh!

The CGI budget was blown on two giants and a wooly mammoth.

Freaking LOVED the episode. Can't believe next week is the season finale. Hodor!

CrastersBabies · Jun 9, 2014

It felt like a blockbuster movie (done right). Was so happy we didn't get cut-away scenes in some other gods-forsaken part of the world. Giants running at us! Oh, Cersei is taking a bath. How nice. Wildlings scaling the wall and they're just about to hit the top!

Breakaway! Dany sitting on her throne, smirking at Daaaaario.

Thank God for the lack of Lucas-esque scene chopping on this.

Next week is going to rock! SERIOUS SPOILERS BELOW...

<<<< Arya finally reaching Braavos? Tyrion offing someone in an AWESOME WAY. Dany probably chaining up her dragons. Stannis mo-fo'ing Baratheon arriving at Castle Black to frack some stuff up! This is the point in the books where I really started to like Stannis. >>>>>

Also, was it just me, or did anyone else see the wall and ponder (speculate--no spoilers here) what Dany's dragons could do to that mound of ice? Like, could they melt the heck out of it or what?

J.W. Alden · Jun 9, 2014

I loved the episode too, and didn't mind spending all episode at the Wall. My only complaint is that the situation there wasn't actually resolved in any way, only made worse. I thought for sure we'd see (BIG BOOK SPOILER) Stannis riding in to save the day this episode. Now we have even more ground to cover next week. That episode is going to be PACKED.

In fact, at this point I'm not sure we'll see some of the things I was confident of earlier in the season. Book readers, do you think we'll still see Lady Stoneheart? It's looking more and more like she'll come next season. Arya leaving for Braavos? The next episode teaser showed we'll see her next week, and the Hound's infection has been set up. Obviously we'll see Tyrion be awesome and Tywin shit gold. And I'd bet Dany's story ends with the Dragon's being chained and Hizdahr's triumphant return. I read somewhere that next week's episode has been allotted fifteen extra minutes of timeslot on HBO. This is a good thing, considering how much they're going to have to squeeze in to wrap things up.

J.W. Alden · Jun 9, 2014

ZachJPayne said:
Also, I wasn't sure if I caught it, but did they kill

He survived by hiding out in the pantry with Gilly and her baby. But you may be thinking of Ser Alliser, who's fate was left somewhat ambiguous. Magnar wounded him and some of the brothers dragged him off somewhere, but I'd bet he's still alive. He's still alive in the books, and I think if they wanted to kill him they'd have given him a nice, gruesome death.

EDIT: Sorry for the double post. I meant to edit that into my last one.

CrastersBabies · Jun 9, 2014

J.W. I too wonder about.. >>>Lady Stoneheart. They will need to remind the audience of a few things: 1. how she "died" (like they can forget), and 2. about reviving/resurrection. Perhaps they can do this with the Mountain.

I would be very disappointed to not have Lady Stoneheart in the HBO series. <<<

Rhoda Nightingale · Jun 9, 2014

You people and your book spoilers. In other news, CrastersBabies--I just now figured out your username.

Also, I just got to the Red Wedding in my book-reading, and it hurt me all over again. However, I'm realizing this is yet another thing that the showrunners managed to make WORSE by stabbing a pregnant woman in the stomach, seeing as Jeyne is not only a different character than Talisa, but wasn't pregnant and was not THERE. That's . . . nice. Stay classy, HBO.

ETA: On the other hand, it was trippy to see Catelyn's freak-out on hearing not the words, but the tune for "The Rains of Castamere" and actually knowing what it sounds like since the song exists in the real world now. That was actually kinda cool.

thothguard51 · Jun 9, 2014

Had this episode not been exclusive to the happenings at the wall, I would have been very disappointed. Also, spoiler>>>had Stannis arrived in this episode, I would have been very disappointed. As it is, they are going to have to rush a bit in the next episode just to finish the season and Book three. <<<

All in all, I was very pleased with this episode, more so even than I was with the 9th episode of season 2 and the Black Water battle.

Hodor indeed...

Rhoda Nightingale · Jun 9, 2014

This is my favorite episode so far. By a *lot*.

Oh, to whoever was asking earlier--I am also wondering about what Dany's dragons could do to the wall. I was wondering that last night. Because dragons are never far from my mind with this show.

CrastersBabies · Jun 9, 2014

I'd like to think that Drogon could melt a nice path through it. Like Moses parting the Red Sea.

I mean, I hope we see some kind of epic battle between the dragons and the White Walkers someday. Since dragon-glass (obsidian) can kill the white walkers, imagine what the fire itself could do--and dragon fire at that.

Dany has to go north! She just has to!

Parametric · Jun 9, 2014

Alliser Thorne was unexpectedly awesome in this episode.

dragonjax · Jun 9, 2014

Parametric said:
Alliser Thorne was unexpectedly awesome in this episode.

**nods** Hodor. Hodor Hodor. Hodor.

(Loosely translated: Yep. Agree with you 100%. Awesome.)

DreamWeaver · Jun 9, 2014

CrastersBabies said:
Thank God for the lack of Lucas-esque scene chopping on this.

Well, I'll agree with you on that, but your comment did make me think of Godfather-Coppola-esque intercutting, and I might have sold my soul to see that

.

ETA:

Parametric said:
Alliser Thorne was unexpectedly awesome in this episode.

Totally agree!

Regarding other possibilities away from the Wall:

I don't really expect to see >>> Lady Stoneheart <<< this season, but if >>> she turns up <<< that would be awesome--unless >>> they pull a Daario and recast her. <<< OK, just thinking of that is giving me nightmares

.

.

robeiae · Jun 9, 2014

Rhoda Nightingale said:
This is my favorite episode so far. By a *lot*.

Yep. This episode took me back to the glory days of Season 1. Had to watch it twice in a row. Probably will watch it again tonight.

It's amazing to me, how the show can go from an absolutely horrible episode to a stunningly great one.

And yeah, Thorne was awesomely awesome. I loved his little speech to Jon on top of the Wall.

This episode took me back to all the great war movies where a line or a hill just had to be held, where everyone knew that they were gonna die, but they held strong anyway. All of Knight's watch men held that fatalist look, imo. It was great directing, as well as being great acting.

*sigh*

I'm so happy.

CrastersBabies · Jun 9, 2014

I think one reason I LOVED this episode was that I remember reading the books the first time around and thinking, "I would love to see this on the big screen. It would be amazing." (Thinking back then, "Nope, never gonna happen.") So, I got a fangirl wish. That rocks.

Manuel Royal · Jun 9, 2014

J.W. Alden said:
In the books, you get a little backstory about that. The Night's Watch is actually forbidden by law from constructing walls at any of their nineteen castles. This is said primarily to ensure the men are always focused on manning the Wall itself, watching ever northward.

But it's also rumored (whited out, as this may end up being relevant to future events) that this law is actually the result of the Night's King rebellion thousand of years ago, in which the thirteenth Lord Commander of the Night's Watch took an Other/White Walker for his bride and proclaimed himself King of the Wall. It took an alliance between the King in the North (the Lord Commander's own brother, according to Old Nan) and Joramun, the King Beyond The Wall, to bring him down. Thereafter, the building of walls was forbidden at, er, the Wall, to ensure that it was always accessible from the south.

Thanks for the info; that's interesting. I always liked the Night Watch. I guess Martin based it in part on the famous military monastic orders.

One thing that does bug me about the world of the series (and it's the same thing with a lot of pseudo-medieval fantasy series) is that -- unless my impression is mistaken -- we improbably have a certain level of technology that stays the same for hundreds or even thousands of years. What we see in this show is late-medieval, with, judging from the material culture, plenty of industry.

They've mentioned numerous times that the outer Wall tunnel gate is made of "cold rolled steel". In our world, that's an industrial process invented in the 16th century (and a good choice; makes the steel extra hard).

Seriously, Westeros should be only a few centuries from an Industrial Revolution.

CrastersBabies · Jun 9, 2014

Manuel Royal said:
Seriously, Westeros should be only a few centuries from an Industrial Revolution.

It's interesting you say this, because at times, I feel like certain places (like Braavos for example) might have more technology available. Next time I read the books, I might focus on technology to see what I can make of it.

A GAME OF THRONES (HBO) -- POSSIBLE SPOILERS

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The King Who Bore the Sword

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Vampire Junkie

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The King Who Bore the Sword

The King Who Bore the Sword

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A Gentleman of a refined age...

Vampire Junkie

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I write stuff and break boards.

Shakespearean Fool

Touch and go

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