Another Copyright Question

Manny said:

Does anyone still own that copyright?

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Yes. The original owner, their estate, or, if the owner was a business that went into debt, it's considered an asset. There's a difficult and time consuming set of steps needed to prove that it's an orphaned work--and this is very very difficult to do with recent works in the UK and EU because of differences in copy right there regarding the author's inalienable rights.

I'd contact the British Copyright office with the ISBN number. Take all guesswork out of this and go to the authorities to check.

Abandoned property is a freaking pain in the ass. The US and England are substantially the same on the concepts of property law and the difference between real and personal property is mainly in the recording requirements.

Real estate frequently loses its owners. My mother had to do a deed for a five foot strip of land her grandfather may or may not have owned. No one could say, as the surveys were a mess. It was cheaper to give my mother some money and clear up the title than it was to go the route of it being abandoned.

Usually with abandoned property where you can't find the owner you have to go into court and publish the proceeding so that any interested party can respond. Expensive and mega aggravating. In the US, these are the cases entitled: "In re $50,000" or "In re 1997 Ford Mustang."

Proceeding on the assumption that a piece of property, whether real or personal, intellectual or actual, has been abandoned is a risky assumption.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe

Manny said:

The author and publisher were one and the same. If the "publisher" claimed copyright, and that publisher is over a decade dissolved, it would seem to me that nobody has an interest in it any more.

It would be an "asset" nobody wants any more surely?

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Well, no, you don't know that. Speaking as someone who does copyright searches, the rights are almost never abandoned. Someone owns them.

And, bluntly, it sounds to me like you're interested in that rights' holders property, yes?

On the other hand, it's fine with me if you get sued. I don't really care either way.

Barrett said:

I'd contact the British Copyright office with the ISBN number. Take all guesswork out of this and go to the authorities to check.

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1. You can do this via the British Library catalog, or, usually, even World Cat.
2. That assumes that the copyright was registered; small presses and privately published works are very often not registered.

You mentiobed a website. A copy might be saved at http://archive.org - put the url in there and see if it comes up with anything.

I doubt that will really help much, thought maybe the page has a name or two you can google.

Something from the 1990's is certainly still under copyright, it doesn't matter if it's still in print or not, if the publisher still exists, or if the author is still alive (rights would then be owned by the estate and whoever the author's heirs are). Most likely the reason everything disappeared was they were't making money, or enough to make it worthwhile. If YOU think YOU can make money by reprinting/'republishing it or some such, you need to find the copyright holder, get their permission, and negotiate royalties if they agree to let you publish it. Just because something appears "abandoned" doesn't mean someone else can pick it up without their permission.

It sounds like the directors filed a '652a form' (see here: 652a.pdf) and dissolved the company.

That means that you should be able to search the London Gazette (see here: www.london-gazette.co.uk ) to find out more details.

As part of dissolving the company, they have sold/disposed of all of their assets .. including the copyright of the book.

Speaking from experience, tracking down the owners of orphan works is a real pain. Even when you can track them down, they may not be sure that they actually own the asset .. and be wary of licensing of a property that they are not 100% positive they own.

(Imagine it from their point of view. Would you pay thousands of dollars in legal costs to get a possible few hundred dollars in license income?)

Good luck!

Mac

Manny said:

The author and publisher were one and the same. If the "publisher" claimed copyright, and that publisher is over a decade dissolved, it would seem to me that nobody has an interest in it any more.

It would be an "asset" nobody wants any more surely?

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It would still be protected by copyright for the requisite number of years. Here's a link to tell you how many years:
http://www.unc.edu/~unclng/public-d.htm

Since this was apparently created in the 1990s, even if the author died the next day it's still protected for another 50-60 years.

So in concrete terms, if you stole it and presented it as your own, the author--or if she's deceased, her heirs; or if she's bankrupt, her creditors; etc.--would suddenly become extremely interested in it if your version of it were financially successful. They could sue you and win, so just put... the book... down... and back away... slowly...

Of course, if what you want to do is license the work from the (C) holder so that you can create a derivative work, then your best bet is to track down the author--the human being, not the company. But, again, if what you want to do is steal it, you're asking for a lawsuit, which you would lose.

**Edited to add** Sorry, I overlooked that this is apparently governed by UK law. It's still protected for seventy years following the author's death, because on that point UK law doesn't differ from US law. If the author assigned the (C) to the company and the company was dissolved, that just means someone else (other than the company) owns the copyright now; it doesn't affect how long the copyright lasts.

Isn't standard copyright life+75 years even if it's been "abandoned"? Since the book came out in the 90's, even if the writer dropped dead the day it hit shelves, the copyright is still in effect. Just because it's self-pubbed and poorly archived doesn't mean it wasn't someone's opus and something they're willing to exercise their rights to.

ETA: cross posted with ideagirl.

If you like the book, then write a similar one. Leave that one alone except for inspiration.

Cyia said:

Isn't standard copyright life+75 years even if it's been "abandoned"?

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Is there such a thing as abandoned in copyright law? IANAL but I doubt it.

benbradley said:

Is there such a thing as abandoned in copyright law? IANAL but I doubt it.

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There's a tricky category called orphan works--and they are different in UK and EU law than in U.S. law. In part because the droit morale means, roughly, that an author can't ever give/sell/sign away all their rights because the "moral" right remains, like the rights of a parent towards a child.

This is an area of actual specialization, in part because of the potential for digital books.

The very primitive and crudely expressed theory (IANAL) is that rights' holders may sometimes essentially have "orphaned" a work by dying and not leaving a literary/estate heir, or a corporate author has been dissolved without naming a right sholder, or a company that owned the rights goes bankrupt and the debt was resolved without deeding the rights . . . or someone just got lost.

This is one reason why right sholders need to present an active presence with respect to asserting their rights--so that the work can't be claimed/asserted etc. as "orphaned."

Go now and Google the phrase "Google orphan works."

If your head explodes, don't blame me.