I read that Romance Writers of America doesnt consider authors that have had novels published by small press or e-publishers as being published. Is that true?
Does RWA not recognize any Epublishers or small presses?
- Thread starter SurferChica
- Start date
- Status
Yes, it is if you're defining "published" as being a PAN member of RWA. To reach the level of PAN (Published Authors' Network), an author must have received an advance of at least $1000 or have received royalties for one title that reach $1000. That advance or those royalties must be paid by one of the two lists of "approved publishers." (Those lists are maintained by RWA and only available to members.) Since most small press/epubs don't pay advances, those authors must earn their status through royalties. That being said, I know several authors with my publisher who have earned PAN status.
Welcome to AW!!
Last edited:
Stepping around the question of who is 'published' and who is not . . .
The RWA has something called the Published Authors Network. PAN.
PAN members get to wear a special ribbon during conferences.
At conferences there are workshops and meetings for PAN members.
I think they get first crack at agent appointments at the conference.
PAN members can join the PAN listserve, which is one of a couple dozen listserves under the RWA umbrella.
PAN members act as judges for the RITA contest.
I think that's about it.
To be eligible for PAN:
You have to be an RWA member.
You have to have had a $1,000 advance for a romance novel or novella,
or
$1,000 in royalties
or
$1000 when you add up advance and royalties.
This money cannot come from a subsidy or vanity publisher or from self-publication.
That is, the author cannot print her own books.
The publisher, to quality, cannot be one that asks the author to share the cost of publication or charges the author up-front fees, or requires the author to purchase books.
A qualifying publisher can be large print press, e-press, or small press. They just have to be honest money-paying press.
The RWA has something called the Published Authors Network. PAN.
PAN members get to wear a special ribbon during conferences.
At conferences there are workshops and meetings for PAN members.
I think they get first crack at agent appointments at the conference.
PAN members can join the PAN listserve, which is one of a couple dozen listserves under the RWA umbrella.
PAN members act as judges for the RITA contest.
I think that's about it.
To be eligible for PAN:
You have to be an RWA member.
You have to have had a $1,000 advance for a romance novel or novella,
or
$1,000 in royalties
or
$1000 when you add up advance and royalties.
This money cannot come from a subsidy or vanity publisher or from self-publication.
That is, the author cannot print her own books.
The publisher, to quality, cannot be one that asks the author to share the cost of publication or charges the author up-front fees, or requires the author to purchase books.
A qualifying publisher can be large print press, e-press, or small press. They just have to be honest money-paying press.
I believe the RWA has a list of publishers they've already vetted as being non-vanity, non-subsidy, but I think an author can ask her publisher, not on the list, to come in with their contract and see if it passes the non-subsidy criteria.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2005
- Messages
- 762
- Reaction score
- 46
- Location
- The lovely mountains of Arizona
- Website
- www.marsneedswriters.com
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2006
- Messages
- 5,363
- Reaction score
- 1,761
And, the last I heard, Harlequin is still off the pro-writing credit list because of its vanity press operation, DellArte Press.
Apparently writers making sales to HQN prior to 11/19/09 are pros, but after that date--not so much.
The full horror story is here.
The AW thread is here.
Now, my agent IS still accepting proposals to submit to HQN, but several of my writer pals said they were through with them. HQN lost a LOT of good will in the industry with their bone-headed move.
The RWA, HWA, MWA, SFWA, etc. showed a ton of guts by kicking HQN out of the club.
In turn, HQN is publically hurt/puzzled by this reaction, but it is a huge conflict of interest to have a vanity operation under the same roof as a commercial publishing operation.
But so long as DellArte is raking in cash from rejected HQN writers so desperate to be in print that they'll pay for it, I don't see them severing ties to one another.
OTOH, if you sell to HQN, you STILL get a CHECK, even if RWA may not let you in the club.
For this commercial writer, I'd really rather have the money and a shiny new book contract with MORE checks!
In case you were wondering the kind of money romance writers get...
ALWAYS look at the LOWEST advance number. That's the most a newbie can expect.
Apparently writers making sales to HQN prior to 11/19/09 are pros, but after that date--not so much.
The full horror story is here.
The AW thread is here.
Now, my agent IS still accepting proposals to submit to HQN, but several of my writer pals said they were through with them. HQN lost a LOT of good will in the industry with their bone-headed move.
The RWA, HWA, MWA, SFWA, etc. showed a ton of guts by kicking HQN out of the club.
In turn, HQN is publically hurt/puzzled by this reaction, but it is a huge conflict of interest to have a vanity operation under the same roof as a commercial publishing operation.
But so long as DellArte is raking in cash from rejected HQN writers so desperate to be in print that they'll pay for it, I don't see them severing ties to one another.
OTOH, if you sell to HQN, you STILL get a CHECK, even if RWA may not let you in the club.
For this commercial writer, I'd really rather have the money and a shiny new book contract with MORE checks!
In case you were wondering the kind of money romance writers get...
ALWAYS look at the LOWEST advance number. That's the most a newbie can expect.
Like Gillhoughly said, the RWA no longer recognizes Harlequin, the largest publisher in the romance industry.
What the RWA does and doesn't think has no bearing on a writer's career. It's a happy little club that makes its own rules.
Publish your book where you can make the best money with a publisher who meets your ethical standards and you have a writing career, IMO.
(Note: Harlequin does not and never has met my ethical standards).
What the RWA does and doesn't think has no bearing on a writer's career. It's a happy little club that makes its own rules.
Publish your book where you can make the best money with a publisher who meets your ethical standards and you have a writing career, IMO.
(Note: Harlequin does not and never has met my ethical standards).
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2005
- Messages
- 470
- Reaction score
- 53
Amen and btw - I owe RWA a debt of gratitude for being published, mostly for getting info out and enabling me to meet great writers at all levels HOWEVER I don't look to them to tell me if I am a writer or to measure my success or well, anything. (and I gave back at every level, chapter officer, newsletter editor, teaching at confs, judging Rita, GH and chapt contest, contest chair, multiple committee service)
At this point I am not sure what good RWA does a published author. News was just circulating that chapters can no longer put the covers of their pubbed authors on their homepage (perhaps they can be on other pages, not sure).
Now, I write for Harl. and at this point not contracted elsewhere and I agree with their strong stand - they made their rules and they have to enforce them. (I'd be PAN and other writer's orgs w/o the Harl. sales) but I let my RWA membership lapse 3 years ago now and never looked back and not sure why anyone keeps up with it (if you're not going to the national conf)
annie jones
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2005
- Messages
- 28,750
- Reaction score
- 2,934
- Location
- right here
- Website
- www.veinglory.com
RWA says they don't have a "recognised publisher" list, but they do have a proxy equivalent in the list of publisher whose authors could apply for PAN. but who is or isn't on this list seems to be a bit hard to discover. Last I heard epublishers were still counted as "vanity" for some reason....
Last edited:
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2008
- Messages
- 2,382
- Reaction score
- 311
- Location
- Casa Chaos
- Website
- www.debkinnard.com
That's just calling a rose a lily. They've had their criteria for years and their e-pub waffling was one of the reasons I dropped membership there. I prefer ACFW, but that's due to my market and is not everyone's.
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2005
- Messages
- 1,876
- Reaction score
- 178
- Location
- ~the old line state~
- Website
- www.robinbayne.com
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2008
- Messages
- 1,255
- Reaction score
- 189
- Location
- Pacific Northwest
- Website
- www.forlorn-hope.net
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2005
- Messages
- 1,876
- Reaction score
- 178
- Location
- ~the old line state~
- Website
- www.robinbayne.com
American Christian Fiction Writers-- a fairly large group of novelists--including many genres under the Christian umbrella (westerns, romance, etc.)
- Status