The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

Re: Newbie + Publish America

Well, wouldn't it be embarrassing if your book was outsold by one of your victims, er, signed writers? Of course, Meiners has his book priced more competitively than those of his writers. That's so he can win.

As to the comment about why bookstores are refusing PA books because they don't sell, maybe that's because the bookstores have seen the quality of the editing. They don't want books returned for refunds once the readers find so many errors. A real publisher would be embarrassed and do a voluntary recall if they found that many somehow got out in a product.

I will point out one thing. PA's books share a sameness because of what PA has sought in wanting books that are about people overcoming obstacles. The problem that causes is a glut in the market of such books. There was a time when the TV networks were producing a movie of the week that dealt with similar themes. As I recall, it didn't take too long before the viewing public tired of that sameness and went looking for something different. Consequently, PA's author mill is producing a glut that readers will eventually avoid for much the same reason.

Why, gosh whiz Big Daddy...

...of course it's coincidence! You're not suggesting that Willem would do anything that's not congruent with established PA guidelines and principles, are you? For shame, young man, for shame!!!!

:eek

Re: Willem's book at Amazon

Lisa, you can make an Amazon URL a lot shorter by cutting off everything after the ISBN -- the rest of it tells what kind of computer you're on, how you searched, and other extraneous things.

And is Lattu Daginn I Dag Skipta Mali really the Icelandic for Those Who Win Are Those Who Think They Can? This whole time I thought it was Dutch for If Indicted I'm Gonna Skip To Mali.

<HR>

The stats on percentages of sales are from a table in PW.

Re: Ask Victoria

Sorry, I thought you were. My bad.

Re: Here's a good one...

You know, I'm starting to be amazed... ...that PA even bothers with those message boards at all. No real publisher of any note has them, and with their author pool growing, more and more comments are going to get in there that they forget to delete or that at least will be allowed to stay up for too long.

Click to expand...

LBF Books and Meisha Merlin are two legitimate publishers with message boards.

Re: I still think we should submit...

"If a particular font, or kind of font, is important, the author should discuss this fully with her editor. The editor should discuss her concerns. A meeting of the minds is possible, for the overall good of the book."

I had quite the conversation with the book designer regarding what kinds of fonts I'd like to see in my book. They like my input (even when the don't take it - they do, after all, have much more experience designing books than do I).

D James

Re: Here's a good one...

You know, I'm starting to be amazed... ...that PA even bothers with those message boards at all. No real publisher of any note has them, and with their author pool growing, more and more comments are going to get in there that they forget to delete or that at least will be allowed to stay up for too long.

Click to expand...

LBF Books and Meisha Merlin are two legitimate publishers with message boards.

Re: Miranda's writing

"I also agree about Miranda Prather--by posting her work in public she opens herself to comment, and must take her lumps."

But as has been suggested before, there is a section for reviews. If you want to comment on someone's writing, do it there.

D James

Re: Miranda's writing

"Has no experience in legitimate publishing" is a relevant comment. "Can't write for sour beans" isn't.

Remember Dorothy Deering? Perhaps she rivaled Samuel Taylor Coleridge as a poet. I don't know -- and it wouldn't be relevant if she did. What was relevant was her conviction for embezzlement, and that she had no experience in legitimate publishing.

Consider also EditInk. They fulfilled their contracts. You paid for an edited manuscript, you got an edited manuscript. (Never mind that the "editors" were recent college graduates with no experience in publishing.) It's relevant that Bill Appel was an ex-swimming-pool salesman with no background in publishing. How well or how poorly (or even whether) he wrote doesn't matter. Despite the fact that they fulfilled their "legally binding contracts," Appel et al. had to pay $6million in restitution and $2million in civil penalties plus $500 for each deceptive act.

Re: Here's a good one...

Here's a sad post.
www.publishamerica.com/cg...e/7324.htm

My heart really goes out to this lady. She was trying to do something good, and then one of PA's 'editors' stepped in.
__________________________________________

Regarding books published through Publish America. I have read a hand full. A few were boring. The rest were really excellent.

Deborah Turner's novel 'If I Perish' (A novel based on Queen Esther) was beautifully written.
Jerry Morhlang's novel 'Sarawak'. (The first chapter had me squirming in my seat)
Abby Park's (Island of Refuge) is good southern fiction.
Righteous Revenge by Beverly Scott is an excellent murder mystery.

These are just a few that I thought deserved to be published with larger publishers. Jerry is so talented he should be with a NY publisher. It was obvious these authors edited their books carefully, or had them professionally edited.

On the other hand, I read one PA book where the typos were so bad I took out a highlighter and started marking them. There were at least two on every page. These were not little mistakes, these were where words were left out of sentences, where words in a sentence were reversed. I felt so bad for this person that I wrote her a gentle letter and told her what I was finding. She was so upset. But I sent her a list, a huge list, of errors and she sent it to PA. I think them corrected them, I don't know for sure. The really amazing thing is she sent them a second book.

Not that it is okay, but typos appear in a lot of books. I was reading one of Elizabeth Peters' novels and it had this sentence in the first chapter.

"And she was clam now."

Now, I know Ms. Peters did not write that originally. It is a proofreaders error, and 'clam' should be 'calm'. It made me laugh and I realized I am not alone.

Re: What PA says about bookstore sales

Miranda Prather says:

If they do not feel it will make a return for them on their investment of stocking it, they will not buy it regardless of the returnability issue though that issue is a convenient excuse to tell authors about why they will not stock.

Click to expand...

But if the book is returnable, the bookstore's investment is $0. If it sells the book, the return is . . . infinite, I guess. That's somewhat of an incentive to stock it. If the book fails, they lose nothing. If it sells, big return.

However, since PA books are nonreturnable and they usually require cash up front and they give low discounts to the bookstore, there's no financial incentive to stock them. The only way a bookstore can get a decent return on the investment is if the book already has a buyer lined up (i.e., special ordered).

And since bookstores have been burned by people ordering PA books and not buying them, they are going to want cash up front for the order (much like how PA wants cash up front for their books -- if it's wrong for the bookstores to do this, it is equally wrong for PA to do this).

So they're making the wrong argument. It's also funny that Prather is talking so much about how bookstores work. Has she ever managed one? Did she discuss this with any bookstore owners before making the assertion?

I'm guessing the answer to both questions is "no."

Re: What PA says about bookstore sales

I think that what Miranda's argument boils down to is:

If a bookstore doesn't want to stock a book for other reasons, saying "Hey, but it's returnable!" isn't going to change their minds.

What she isn't mentioning is: if a bookstore does want to stock a book, saying, "It's not returnable" very well might change their minds.

(We've seen this in many cases, as the bookstore regretfully calls the author back and says "I'm sorry, but you can't have that signing after all, and no, we won't be stocking your book.")

The "returnability issue ... is a convenient excuse...." Yes, I suppose so. It's much easier (and kinder) for a bookstore owner to say, "I'm sorry, but your book isn't returnable" than "I'm sorry, but your book isn't saleable."

Re: What PA says about bookstore sales

exactly.

I just saw in another post a PA author claiming that Chapters had agreed to carry her book, but leaving out (until much later) that this was conditional on her getting past the approval stage to sign a contract to put them there on CONSIGNMENT...

meaning that she is about to drop over seven hundred dollars on books to slap onto the shelves (that is, if they approve her books and let her sign the contract) for 30 days and pray that they sell. Her reasoning is that since PA gives you a discount on the first 50, you may not make money - but you won't lose any.

logic is a harsh mistress.

NO author should have to lay out this sort of cash unless you literally are paying a PRINTER to put out your book. WHY should you, the author, have to beg and deal with consignment contracts and hope against hope that you'll be able to sell 50 copies of your overpriced book in a store?

I'm willing to bet that IF she gets approved that 30 days after she puts them on the shelf she'll be getting back a box from the bookstore with at least half of them inside...

again, to quote Da Master - Money flows TO the author, not FROM the author...

More from Publish America on editing

When asked if authors have a chance to edit, Miranda Prather replied on January 4, 2005:

Yes, of course you will have a chance to further edit after our staff has edited. As outlined in the contract, you will have at least 2 weeks to work with the material. This will be after a Text Editor has cleaned up many of the mistakes in grammar, punctuation, spelling and the like. I say many because they are afterall human, so some mistakes are bound to be left.

In addition to the 2 week review, we almost always over a 2 day review once any changes have been made after the 2 week review. We want our manuscripts to be as clean as possible.

As a writer myself, I understand about the little mistakes we all make. I usually read my work backwards. Otherwise, I get caught up in plot, characterization and the story itself and ignore the little mistakes.

Why has it been ten months and no proofs?

Ms. Miranda Prather explains on January 12, 2005 why it has been 10 months since the author signed his/her contract and still no proofs:

I checked with our Text Editing Department and the book is still waiting to be assigned to an editor. Different books will take different times to move through the process. I have requested that they provide me with the closest estimate that they can about when your book will be assigned and will let you know.

Re: Here's a good one...

Hi all. I just returned home from work. I expected a lot of harsh emails from where I emailed some of the PA posters about their books and book stores yesterday. I was pleasantly surprised, very nice emails, saying various nice things, like thank you for helping, and I'll go over there and read the site, and "I am beginning to wonder what I have gotten myself into." We should be having company soon. It would be great if they all are as nice as the one's who have responded so far, and I don't see mention of my name on the site over there yet. Thanks who ever else wrote to these people, they are mentioning I was not the only one who pointed them to here.
Chris

Returns

"But if the book is returnable, the bookstore's investment is $0. If it sells the book, the return is . . . infinite, I guess. That's somewhat of an incentive to stock it. If the book fails, they lose nothing. If it sells, big return."

That's not entirely true. Floor space costs money. A book that does not turn over, regardless of a return clause, costs money to shelve. A return clause won't make a poorly edited, over priced book any more attractive than one without that clause.

**edited to add**:

Special orders cost bookstores money. Bookstores make money on buying books at volume, as that steepens the discount. (There are other ways that bookstores make money, but I'm only mentioning what is appropriate to this discussion.)

When a bookstore takes a special order it's an act of customer service in hopes you'll go in and buy a couple other books.

D James

Re: You know, I'm starting to be amazed...

D James, thanks for bringing the bookstore perspective to this conversation. It's very informative.

I've learned an awful lot in this thread. Showing how PA differs from so-called traditional publishing has really taught me a lot about so-called traditional publishing.

Re: Returns

When a bookstore takes a special order it's an act of customer service in hopes you'll go in and buy a couple other books.

Hmm! That's a good point D James. Perhaps the P.A.r's have been going about marketing their books the wrong way.

Instead of asking the bookstore to 'stock' their books. Why not ask the book store if they could advertise their books in house. As in make up some graphic posters to place around the store.
That way the book store gets to keep their shelf space for the regular(legitimate) publishers, and the PA'rs get the satisfaction of knowing their book is being advertise to the public with the knowledge of being ordered and accessible.

Poster Child

I know. Don't make fun of individuals but shouldn't this be the poster child for PA authors:

It makes me laugh.
Jenna, I'm sorry, you can delete this. I won't feel bad.

Edited to delete picture. This crosses the line by a LOT.

Woo hoo! See, I knew it. Regardless, it was funny.

Re: What PA says about bookstore sales

www.publishamerica.com/cg.../11524.htm
Curious, any idea of what this author is talking about in this post.

Re: What PA says about bookstore sales

Not sure, but I think B&N requires authors who request a signing to fill out a questionnaire regarding their book; particularly if it's a book they either don't already stock or isn't in one of their catalogues.

Maybe the poster misheard or misunderstood.

Re: What PA says about bookstore sales

Nope. "The man at Borders" covers too much ground.

Re: What PA says about bookstore sales

Unless, she meant: "The Man," as in, "Dude, you are a slave to 'The Man!'" Lol.

WRONG WRONG WRONG

Somebody tell John This isn't how it works.

From the PA board:

RE: Starving Author?


Message:

Why would anyone want an advance? This is not free money it is taken from your royalty cheques so if you dont sell then you may never see a royalty cheque because your really paying back a loan.

I bet PA authors are getting royalty cheques all the time the small advance authors are paying back that advance.

Another good piece of advice is not to let the publisher spend money on promoting you if you are on an advance because that will be charged to you as well as part of your loan.

have a nice day,

john

Advances are not loans, they do not have to be paid back.

If the manuscript is accepted, advances do not have to be paid back to the publisher. ARE YOU LISTENING PA AUTHORS!

Go for a big advance!

Sorry for the exclamations marks but I get so frustrated hearing PA authors say they're so grateful they only got a $1 advance. It is a rare, rare exception when an advance has to be paid back by the author.

Dee
Co-author The Making of a Bestseller
April 2005, Dearborn Trade
www.BrianHillAndDeePower.com