The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

Re: Then, CSI "Whatever"....

Like we're educating you, CSI?

I've noticed that you still haven't offered any credentials to back up your words. Could it be that you don't have any?

Re: Then, CSI "Whatever"....

And Your Claim To Fame Is - Website Envy?

More interesting Data to analyze.

It will be interesting who keeps vying for the Top Spot, and who retains it.

Re: Psychology and CSI?

That movie blew goats.

Re: Then, CSI "Whatever"....

Yep, that's the kind of response we've grown to expect from PA supporters. You didn't answer the question, CSI. You dodged it.

The question remains regardless of what you might state about others.

What are your credentials, CSI? Until you reveal those, your dx is unsupported.

Re: Right now, it just stands for yet another PA poster.

Dave -

I wish that you could see that when you let people like this push your buttons and you get into it with them you can damage your perceived status as a professional advocate in the eyes of others.

Conversations like this are so petty and someone of your stature should really be above them.

There are enough non-pros on the board the take up the mantle if it needs to be picked up. You should not be dealing with gnats it is beneath you.

Re: Right now, it just stands for yet another PA poster.

SimonSays, I don't consider any of this to be beneath me. I don't put myself on a pedestal. Besides, what good is a watchdog that's too afraid of an intruder to bark?

Re: Right now, it just stands for yet another PA poster.

"Besides, what good is a watchdog that's too afraid of an intruder to bark?"

Your Own Shadow?
:hat

Re: Right now, it just stands for yet another PA poster.

Still waiting to learn your credentials, CSI.

Re: Right now, it just stands for yet another PA poster.

"Still waiting to learn your credentials, CSI."

Seek and You Shall Find.

:hat

Re: Re: Right now, it just stands for yet another PA poster

I really had to think about what it was that I wanted to say before I responded to this...well, this.

Anyway, when I was shopping around my YA novel, I came across Pretty Atrocious (aka PA) when I googled them, this thread popped up. SO GLAD IT DID! I immediately took PA off my list of people to submit to.

And since then, I have found a real traditional publisher (albeit small) to publish, market and sell my book. Notice what those three things are - publish MARKET and SELL. Not just publish it and let me sell it.

Which is the point of the thread. What PA is doing, publishing books for no money up front, is admirable. If that was all they were doing, and advertising it as such, there would be no discussion.
BUT... (and it's a big one) PA advertises itself as a traditional publisher. Which they ARE NOT. They are a POD publisher, period. They do NOT market, they do NOT sell actively, themselves.
They copy edit only, which is fine, but NOT what a traditional publisher does. A traditional publisher puts each book through a style and content editor as well.
Then, when the book is done, it is listed on the main sites and the PA bookstore, and their job is finished. A traditional publisher (which uses offset printing, by the way, NOT POD) wants to make money on the book they've spent so much manpower publishing. They put out press releases, send out advanced copies, put the book in their catalog. In other words, sell the book. See, that's how real publishers make their money.
And this is every who down in who-ville, CSI, the tall AND the small. For every book.

Because PA uses POD technology, their cover prices are cost-prohibitive, and they do not give industry standard discounts. And the books are non-returnable, not even for credit on a future order, like a TRADITIONAL PUBLISHER.

And this is just the list of falsehoods that PA perpetuates in claiming to be a "real" publisher. This doesn't address the issues of incorrect royalties and sales of books they no longer own.

That crap about the "we invited you to the dinner table" is just that. If PA wasn't around, and people didn't fall for their brand of fertilizer, perhaps those people would never publish their books. Perhaps, just perhaps, that's a good thing!
We don't say to people "ok, you've taken a class in anatomy, now we're giving you a license to practice medicine."
Same thing, if the book isn't good, it shouldn't be out there, the writer should be working on making it publishable! Or finding something that they really are good at. ANd I'm not trying to be mean, but not everyone can write well, it's a fact of life. I know nothing about rocket science. Same thing.

I urge you to look at some real publishers websites. Even the small ones. Take Tor (which is a big one, but look it anyway), Mundania Press, Behler publications, and LBF books (my publisher) tell me what their home pages are dedicated to. Then look at the PA site and tell me what's different.

Get it, yet??? PA either needs to be honest about what they do, or get out of business. End of story.
ANd until one or the other happens, I think this thread will go on, and on, and on. And I hope it does.
Wow, I had a lot to say, didn't I???

Re: Re: Right now, it just stands for yet another PA poster

Riddle Me This. Riddle Me That....

Every Post has the same Punch-Line. Soon, everyone tires of the same Story-Line.

:hat

Re: More PA woes, straight from a PA author's mouth...

A public service announcement:

If you're new to this area or this board, please be aware that "CSI2004" and "Sandy Mason" are sockpuppets -- throwaway pseudonymous accounts, used for purposes of deception -- who've come here solely to try to disrupt and discredit the conversation.

Ignore them.

If you're a writer who's been thinking of publishing your book with PublishAmerica, and are researching them, or are a PA author looking for straight information you can't get on the PA boards, you've come to the right place.

(This announcement does not necessarily reflect the opinions of anyone with official authority hereabouts. Thank you for your patience. We now return you to your regularly scheduled message thread.)

I find this latest development highly encouraging. PA must be hurting if they've sent out the trolls. And while it would be interesting to find out where these posts are coming from, we don't need to do that to identify CSI/SM as PublishAmerica sockpuppets.

Consider: two new accounts have shown up, more or less simultaneously. They know each other. They sound alike. Neither's been seen here before, but they're both familiar with the thread, and they both say they're bored by it.

This doesn't meet minimal standards of believability. (Hey, I never said they were smart sockpuppets.) This is the internet. You may take it as a rule of thumb that no one who shows up to do the "Guy, man, this is, like, totally boring" routine is ever telling the truth. If a person is genuinely bored by some area, they go somewhere else. They certainly don't stick around to read all 3200+ messages, then dive into that same conversation they profess to find so boring.

Time for Usenet 101: Coming into a conversation and jeering about how boring it is, then telling the people in it to get a life, is the second most elementary AutoTroll maneuver. It takes no brains at all. Gambits like referring to the people you're trying to provoke as hopeless obsessives, or claiming that you find them a psychologically fascinating case study, are likewise beginner-level stuff.

So far, CIS/SM haven't made a single substantive remark. The only interesting thing they've done has been to make a mistake. It's a beaut, though:

Need to send evidence to "Trace" for verification? The results will be the same as it was, the last 100 times this tennis match as been played-out!

Click to expand...

That is, they (1.) know what previous traces have turned up; and (2.) they know that attempts to trace their posts will yield the same results.

Tsk. There's only one way they can know that.

We should thank them for confirming what we've long guessed: that the many sockpuppets who've periodically shown up here to harass us have all come from the same source. That source can only be PublishAmerica. No one else would defend PA, except their authors; and a PA author wouldn't defend them this long.

Just to point it out for the record, that remark of theirs is also an admission that CIS/SM aren't the casual drop-ins they pretend to be; and it's a demonstration that they really have read the backthread. As I said, these aren't very smart sockpuppets.

Enough of that. What can we judge from this latest attempt to harass us? First, that we're getting through to PublishAmerica. That's good to know. And second, that they really, really want us to drop this discussion.

Not gonna happen.

Before I go, let me second underthecity's queries to CIS and SM:

1. What are your stakes in this? If you feel that the PA discussions are unwarranted and meaningless, then why did you post in the first place?

2. What do you wish to accomplish with your comments?

3. Are either of you authors? What are your books? Who is your publisher?

4. How and why did you come to Absolute Write in the first place?

5. Since both of you have an interest in the discussion (and even appeared at the very same time), do you feel PA has fulfilled its promises to its authors? If so, let us know how.

Click to expand...

Answer these, please.

Re: Re: Right now, it just stands for yet another PA poster

Is your mother proud of you for supporting scams, CSI?

Back over at the PW article. why does Carl post?

Dave -

You are a noted and respected author's advocate. You should not be 'barking' at all. When you do you come across as petty - which effects how you as an advocate are perceived by others. I understand that you are driven by a passion to protect writers, but you should keep your emotions out of this.

Jim, Victoria, Anne and Jenna all seem to share your passion, but they seem to be able to stay above the mire.

It is hard to maintain your gravitas when you are sniping at trolls or speculating on whether or not PA has paid Adobe the proper license fees for using their software.

The issue here is false advertising and misleading authors. All the rest is BS.

"Don't Publish America" is in hard copy of PW

The tag line is
Don't Publish America
Authors Allege Publisher Deception by Steven Zeitchik
made the November 22 hard copy issue of Publishers Weekly.

It's a start.

Dee
www.BrianHillandDeePower....eller.html

CSI

Watch out SimonSays.

Dave will ask to verify your credentials. If you don't have any, he will dismiss you as not worthy of posting.

Oh, Dave, glad to see you are using my idea about the meta tags. I may not have called it meta tags but the light bulb went off in your head after reading my post.You could have given me credit but no glory for Dave if you did. That's okay. I still respect you.

CSI,
Are you the PA Eye on duty today? Don't lie, you are the PA Eye on duty. I saw your private post about sending out author press releases when the author signs the contract.

You never did answer the author who said that PA didn't send the press releases out. Quit wasting time here and answer the PA authors for a change.

By the way, it would be better to send out the phantom press releases when the authors have their books in their hands instead of a year before they are released. Sheesh!

P&C
Present PA Author
Keeping My Untruthful Publisher Close To Me

Re: CSI

Actually, ProandCon, I asked about credentials because CSI is making medical judgments concerning some individuals who frequent this web site.

As to the metatags, that idea came about when Mr. Macdonald mentioned that PA wasn't using their old list. If anyone should gain credit for being the inspiration, it is he.

Re: PW article

good to see that some hard paper copy is finally being put out - maybe it'll save a few victims from the PublishAmerica trap; and if nothing else may keep some good companies from being associated with these con artists.

can't wait to Google THAT, can ya PA?

Re: CSI

Making Medical Judgements?

Come on, Dave. CSI is baiting and you are playing right into his hands by making yourself look petty.

Gravitas, Dave. Gravitas. Take deep breaths and focus on your REAL mission.

Well.......

"Riddle Me This. Riddle Me That....

Every Post has the same Punch-Line. Soon, everyone tires of the same Story-Line."

Every posting seems to have the same capitalization errors, too.....

Re: CSI

SimonSays, believe it or not, there is sufficient reason for countering what CSI states. For instance, if no one challenges the medical statements CSI makes, those might become real in the minds of those who don't know better. We both know there are many writers who do not. Then you face the problem of trying to regain lost ground because they could become convinced that the complaints here are from raving lunatics when we know that the complaints are valid and come from real victims.

They've already tried to label all of the past and present PA writers posting here as losers and whiners. We know that's not true, either. That's been countered. The comment CSI made also should be shown as lacking substance and credibility.

Like it or not, these kinds of subtle nuances often mean a big difference. You and I see the lies in PA's usual claims, but many writers did not. They don't see those subtle differences in what was meant versus what was claimed. Well, this is the same kind of problem and it can't be ignored.

Re: Well.......

"Is your mother proud of you for..."

It appears that I have wondered into the "Kiddie Pool", where there are only shallow area's.

I was looking for "Adult Swim"!

:\

Re: Well.......

CSI, you should feel really comfortable in the shallow end of the gene pool, but I still believe you should wear waterwings.

Re: CSI

Dave -

Anyone - writer or otherwise who takes CSI's statments as anything other than what they are, is quite frankly beyond help.

He was snide and sarcastic from his first post. I don't think you're giving your fellow writers enough credit. You'd think that YOU think writers are as a whole, are a bunch of idiots. Even those who are unknowledgeable about publishing cannot possibly be THAT stupid.

And the fact that you truly believe that such nonsense requires clarification from you - is a perfect illustration of how you have allowed your passion to get in the way of your common sense and itellect.

You have taken on an admirable mission Dave - I see you as a crusader for the little guy like the Ron Liebman character in Norma Rae - however when you start claiming that an obviously ridiculous post such as CSI could cost you ground with writers and that you need to step in to correct misconceptions - you start sounding more like Captain Queeg and the strawberries.

Re: CSI

Stupid? Idiots? No, SimonSays, but you and I both know that thousands of writers believed PublishAmerica's claims because they didn't look beyond the subtle nuances that we have spotted and recognized.

However, when it comes to your opinion and my opinion of what I'm doing, I'll have to settle for mine because my mind is the only one I can read. For now, I'm satisfied that what we're doing is causing PA to lose victims. Otherwise, why would they even bother to confront us?

I'm glad they send their trolls over. They only confirm for other writers that PA is not at all like real legitimate publishers. The more their trolls oppose us, the more muddy tracks they leave for less enlightened writers to notice.

So, once more with feeling, CSI. What are your credentials?