Submission Advice from the Editor

Lauri B · Aug 11, 2006

Another interesting proposal from the slushpile came in today, and sparked this advice for aspiring authors:

If you propose to write a book about how to write a book, it's a good idea to be a good writer, first. I received the most recent of many proposals for a how-to book on writing for a particular genre. The letter was terrific and well written and I was very intrigued by what this person was proposing. So far so good.

I turned to the sample chapters. This is where everything fell apart. The sample chapters were so badly written that I couldn't quite follow what the author was trying to say. They were so bad that I couldn't quite believe the author had sent them to me.

This happens far more often than not--a query is good; a proposal is pretty good; and the actual product is bad, bad, bad.

So for everyone out there who writes a terrific query letter: make sure you spend as much time making your book as good as the letter you send.

Kristen King · Aug 11, 2006

Lauri, does this strike you as a situation in which the writer may have hired someone else to write the query letter? How do you feel about that practice in general?

Kristen

triceretops · Aug 11, 2006

Good point, Lauri. And according to miss Snark, when submitting such a book, by golly, it would be great if such author had actually published novels under their belt (with a name-house) to give credence and affirmation to their knowledge in the industry. Platform and experience would certainly be important in this instance, not to mention several articles out there as well.

Tri

Lauri B · Aug 11, 2006

Actually, the author of this book mentioned 15 novels she had written, with more under contract. It was only after I read the sample chapters and went to her website that I realized the publishers she had worked with aren't really what you'd call "name-house."

Kristen, I don't think she hired anyone to write her query; I think that's what she worked on over and over to hone her pitch. And that's a real problem that has been discussed here earlier, by others. What often happens is that a writer works on his or her query, proposal, and the first few chapters of a work based on feedback or rejections or whatever, and they are really good. The problem is that the rest of the work doesn't live up to the initial sample. In this particular case, the sample didn't live up to the query letter.

How do I feel about the practice of someone hiring someone else to write a query letter? If you can't manage to write a decent query letter for yourself, you have absolutely NO business submitting a manuscript. Why would anyone assume that the query letter is more difficult or more important to get "right" than the book itself? Yes, a query letter can get your foot in the door, but what's the point of that if the manuscript you then send in isn't at least as good as the query that piqued an editor or agent's interest in the first place? I'm a big believer in self-reliance. If you can't write well enough to interest a house or agent, then please don't hire someone to write for you. Do something else with your time.

Kristen King · Aug 12, 2006

Thanks for that perspective, Lauri!

Kristen

Mayor of Moronia · Aug 12, 2006

I guess that's why William Sloane rejected Thomas Wolfe, and Max Perkins didnt.

Jamesaritchie · Aug 12, 2006

triceretops said:
Good point, Lauri. And according to miss Snark, when submitting such a book, by golly, it would be great if such author had actually published novels under their belt (with a name-house) to give credence and affirmation to their knowledge in the industry. Platform and experience would certainly be important in this instance, not to mention several articles out there as well.

Tri

It should be, but until King's "On Writing" was released, "Natalie Goldberg's "Writing Down the Bones" was quite likely the best-selling how-to write book of all time. And have you taken a look at what she had published before writing a how-to book? Pretty much zero.

Kristen King · Aug 12, 2006

Jamesaritchie said:
It should be, but until King's "On Writing" was released, "Natalie Goldberg's "Writing Down the Bones" was quite likely the best-selling how-to write book of all time. And have you taken a look at what she had published before writing a how-to book? Pretty much zero.

Good point and good example.

Kristen

Lauri B · Aug 12, 2006

Jamesaritchie said:
It should be, but until King's "On Writing" was released, "Natalie Goldberg's "Writing Down the Bones" was quite likely the best-selling how-to write book of all time. And have you taken a look at what she had published before writing a how-to book? Pretty much zero.

It wasn't a question of being well-known in the industry in this case (although it definitely helps sell books); it was the fact that the sample chapters this author sent me were absolutely incomprehensible: full of incomplete sentences (which as far as I can tell was NOT intentional), strange assumptions, and just plain terrible writing. I receive manuscripts in this shape fairly regularly so that wasn't what I was commenting on; rather, it was the fact that this person was submitting a how-to book on writing that was so badly written I had to take note.

Silver King · Aug 13, 2006

Nomad said:
this person was submitting a how-to book on writing that was so badly written I had to take note.

Perhaps you misread the concept, and in fact it was a book on how NOT to write well. (Smart aleck emoticon inserted here, only I can't find one that's not bald.)

Kristen King · Aug 13, 2006

Silver King said:
Perhaps you misread the concept, and in fact it was a book on how NOT to write well. (Smart aleck emoticon inserted here, only I can't find one that's not bald.)

Ah, yes, you let a winner slip away because you couldn't get through the what-not-to-do chapters. ;]

Kristen

blacbird · Aug 14, 2006

Jamesaritchie said:
It should be, but until King's "On Writing" was released, "Natalie Goldberg's "Writing Down the Bones" was quite likely the best-selling how-to write book of all time. And have you taken a look at what she had published before writing a how-to book? Pretty much zero.

An interesting observation. I found Natalie Goldberg's book, when looked at closely, to be full of vacuous froth. In particular her emphasis on how unpublished writers shouldn't worry about publication, which struck me as recommending that poor people shouldn't worry about money. The fact that she was selling bazoogles of her published book by advising people not to worry about publication was an extra bonus.

caw.

aruna · Aug 15, 2006

blacbird said:
An interesting observation. I found Natalie Goldberg's book, when looked at closely, to be full of vacuous froth.
caw.

Makes you wonder how it found a publisher right? What was her platform?

Jamesaritchie · Aug 15, 2006

Bones

aruna said:
Makes you wonder how it found a publisher right? What was her platform?

I believe the book was originally published by Bantam's New Age line, so her New Age approach to writing meant more than any expertise she actaully had.

Lauri B · Aug 15, 2006

And if I remember right, it was one of the first books that offered a spiritual/therapeutic approach to writing, rather than a nuts-and-bolts how-to.

blacbird · Aug 15, 2006

Nomad said:
And if I remember right, it was one of the first books that offered a spiritual/therapeutic approach to writing

Didn't work.

caw.

Jamesaritchie · Aug 15, 2006

Bones

blacbird said:
Didn't work.

caw.

Nope. But it did make you feel better for failing.

Lauri B · Aug 15, 2006

ha! Worked for her, though.

aruna · Aug 15, 2006

Nomad said:
And if I remember right, it was one of the first books that offered a spiritual/therapeutic approach to writing, rather than a nuts-and-bolts how-to.

Well, Dorothea Brande's Becoming a Writer was published 1934 and it's a classic. I took all her advice and that was my route into writing pubishable work. It's so good and so much better; it predates all the New Age stuff and yet it's more of a secret than a bestseller. Strange how these things work.

Jamesaritchie · Aug 16, 2006

Yep

Nomad said:
ha! Worked for her, though.

Good point.

aruna · Aug 16, 2006

It was good timing.

Tami_Elder · Aug 17, 2006

Ok I'm not entirely certain that this is where I should ask this, but please bear with me, as i am new to this forum.

Now, I am by no means new to writing. I have been writing seriously for fourteen years. However, I have discovered the Catch 22 situation that the "New" writer faces today. For nearly all publishing houses anymore, you have to either have an agent or be previously published before they'll even look at your writing. Now, while Agent's may serve a puprose, i am not comfortable with someone else gaining money off of my years of hard work and effort.

My question is this. It is my goal to break into print, but I am unsure of how to go about it with all of the "we don't accept unsolicited manuscripts" red tape to cut through. Without recommending an Agent, can you give me any tips on how to break into print with a legitimate publishing house? And a quick FYI: I'm not interested in PoD, Subsidy Publishing, Self-Publishing, or any other vanity press.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

arkady · Aug 18, 2006

Tami_Elder said:
Now, while Agent's may serve a puprose, i am not comfortable with someone else gaining money off of my years of hard work and effort.

Really? I'd like nothing better than to have an agent making 15% from my years of hard work and effort.

Without recommending an Agent, can you give me any tips on how to break into print with a legitimate publishing house?

If we knew the answer to that one, there'd be no need for this board to exist. Apart from the standard cliches like "Gee whiz, all you need is a Brilliant Manuscript(tm) and a Dynamite Query Letter(tm)!" the best advice is just to keep writing, keep improving, keep submitting, and don't be easily discouraged.

Oh, and by the way:

1: "Agent" is not capitalized unless it falls at the beginning of a sentence
2: The plural of "agent" is "agents," without an apostrophe.
3: Purpose.

I point these things out not to be annoying but to warn you that if such errors are appearing in your manuscript or query letter, both agents and publishers will generally cross you off their lists at once.

Lauri B · Aug 18, 2006

Arkady, play nice, please.

Tami, I know it seems like a total Catch-22, but it's really not. There are lots of publishers that accept non-agented manuscripts and queries, and even many of the big NY houses will take a look if your pitch is solid and intriguing and the manuscript is worth reviewing. Have you had your work published in the past (in magazines, newspapers, etc.?) If so, you know how to query and pitch properly. It sounds more like you don't know publishers in your market particularly well. Do you have a copy of Writer's Market (which isn't always accurate, but can be a good starting point)? What I would recommend is buying or borrowing a copy of that book, marking off some good possible candidates, then going to each publisher's web site to check submission guidelines. You'll find dozens of legitimate, excellent presses who take unsolicited, unagented manuscripts. Start from the top and go down: pitch and submit to the publishers you really, really want to work with, then move down your list if they don't accept your work. Don't settle.
Does that help at all? Good luck!

JerseyGirl1962 · Aug 18, 2006

Tami_Elder said:
Now, I am by no means new to writing. I have been writing seriously for fourteen years. However, I have discovered the Catch 22 situation that the "New" writer faces today. For nearly all publishing houses anymore, you have to either have an agent or be previously published before they'll even look at your writing. Now, while Agent's may serve a puprose, i am not comfortable with someone else gaining money off of my years of hard work and effort.

My question is this. It is my goal to break into print, but I am unsure of how to go about it with all of the "we don't accept unsolicited manuscripts" red tape to cut through. Without recommending an Agent, can you give me any tips on how to break into print with a legitimate publishing house.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Arkady, you need to take a chill pill.

Tami, I'd listen to what Nomad is saying. From stuff I've read on these boards, you have to figure out where your novel fits in with the commercial houses. If you come to the conclusion it wouldn't have wide appeal, you might consider the small presses (look at the sticky at the top of the Bewares and Backgrounds forum on the lists of publishers for a good start).

But if you think your novel would fit in with a commercial house, by all means, go the agent route. Taking 15% off the top isn't as bad as it sounds, when you realize that those publishing houses that accept unsolicited mss. have a year (or more) wait, when an agent can get that ms. to the editor in half that time or less.

So I'd rethink the whole agent thing. Yes, it sucks to have someone else take a percentage of what you'd be getting up front. But think of it this way: a legitimate agent is going to look out for your interests so that you get the best contract deal (Agent Kristin went through that on her blog, http://pubrants.blogspot.com) because they have a vested interest in your book doing well. Check out the 20 Worst Agents thread in Bewares for those agents to avoid.

Oh, and check out some agent blogs, too. The one I noted above is an excellent one (she's currently going through query letters that worked for her AND got the author a publishing contract). You also should check out Miss Snark (http://misssnark.blogspot.com). Rachel Vader's blog (Lit Agent X) is also a good one http://raleva31.livejournal.com.

Read up on this stuff, see what legit agents have to say. Although Miss Snark can be, well, snarky :tongue

, she still imparts some great stuff, as do the others I mentioned above.

Good luck!

~Nancy

Submission Advice from the Editor

Lauri B

I Heart Mac

Kristen King

triceretops

Lauri B

I Heart Mac

Kristen King

Mayor of Moronia

Jamesaritchie

Kristen King

Lauri B

I Heart Mac

Silver King

Megalops Erectus

Kristen King

blacbird

aruna

On a wing and a prayer

Jamesaritchie

Lauri B

I Heart Mac

blacbird

Jamesaritchie

Lauri B

I Heart Mac

aruna

On a wing and a prayer

Jamesaritchie

aruna

On a wing and a prayer

Tami_Elder

arkady

Lauri B

I Heart Mac

JerseyGirl1962

I heart Malamutes! :-)