Talcott Notch Literary Services

Tracking

ixchel said:

I've tried to e-mail Gina not once but three times about the status of my full. It's been almost one year since I sent it to her. I'm worried that my manuscript got lost. It would be nice to hear what had happened or if she did send me a rejection and the mailmail lost it.

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Hi there! I find a lot of times e-mails get lost especially when they have attachments. I prefer sending a back up copy snail mail just in case and include a SASE postcard they can just pop in the mail to me so I know my document was received. That way you aren't in doubt concerning receipt. I do the same if I send an e-mail and don't get a reply back. It's just too easy to loose things via mail these days, snail or otherwise.

I also track things when I sent them out snail, use UPS or something to make sure they are delivered. Don't want to take a chance. But I always follow up with e-mail. It's much safer that way. Have you tried regular mail? I may have missed that, sorry if I did!

No, I haven't tried snail mail. I'll probably do that next week before my trip to Utah. I hate to be a bother but on the other hand I'd like to know whether or not she received my full or sent out a rejection note that I never received.

ixchel said:

No, I haven't tried snail mail. I'll probably do that next week before my trip to Utah. I hate to be a bother but on the other hand I'd like to know whether or not she received my full or sent out a rejection note that I never received.

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Hi again. I try to research agents and publishers average response times when sending to people direct. If for example, they state their response time is 10-12 weeks, if I haven't heard anything by 14 then I generally follow up. This is perfectly acceptable. It is not a bother. It is only a bother when eager beavers call constantly or check in on the status of their manuscript or query weekly after sending. This isn't helpful but annoying and won't help bolster your chances. I know it drives me crazy when a client checks in on a writing project every day. I prefer sending weekly updates as I am ready. Remember most agents are sitting with hundreds of manuscripts, proposals or queries on their desk. It's a bit of a crap shot at times if you will.

After a reasonable time frame I see no problem with checking in, snail mail with a SASE in your case is a good idea. Again, many encourage this AFTER a reasonable time frame. I think the longest most request is 3-8 months for a full manuscript. My experience has been 2-12 weeks for queries and proposals.

After a year, I hope you are looking at other people as well? The waiting period is always hard, chin up. I'm waiting too on multiple projects.

Best to you (and me and everyone else pursuing their dreams, talents and abilities)

A. Arthur

mixed emotions

I confess that I have mixed emotions regarding the Talcott Notch Literary Services LLC. I've read the entire thread on Absolutewrite.com dedicated to them. From what I've read here and elsewhere, Gina Panettieri seems to have as many defenders as detractors and both are equally passionate.

Last weekend I received a positive response from Ms. Panettieri in response to my query. I was in the process of preparing the sample chapter, proposal, CV and SASE, but I decided before rushing to the post office, I'd do some checking out what others thought of her.

I respect Writerbeware.org, but I'm as wary of information that might be dated as I am about agents who lack an established record of making sales.

Now I'm conflicted. One good friend of mine who is a published author took one look at Talcott Notch's entry from Writerbeware and replied, "If you feel that such an agency has cheated others, (of course it could just be that one person that felt ripped off, but if there is more than one, perhaps there is reason to worry...) you should pass. As hard as that is to do, one must pass up an opportunity to get screwed unless it is consentual."

I think I'm going to have to decide whether Gina Panettieri or Victoria Strauss have the facts on their side.

Congratulations, Ron! The stars haven't quite lined up for me--yet. Just to echo a previous post, my experience with Gina was positive.

This is definitely a 'don't hold your breath,' business.

Branwyn(aka Baywitch)

I'd say that more than anything, Gina comes off as very friendly but a bit disorganized. I think she moved offices at one time, so that's understandable, but after that she just gave me the impression that she's not as organized as others. But she's always been very sweet.

And hey, there are a lot of people like that, disorganized; doesn't make her a bad agent. She's obviously sold some things, and that's what you really need to look at - her selling record. Who she's sold to and what, and does it fit in with what you've written.

This is not a one-size-fits-all business either, you may find that your styles don't mesh, or that you work together well.

Hi, all, I do agree with Christine that at times I may appear disorganized regarding new submissions (the volume of work can be staggering) since I often answer submissions out of order, and frankly, there are times I'm pretty well working at full capacity just taking care of existing clients' needs and I have to triage new work to a lower priority simply because I have no choice. But that wasn't a state I was satisfied with myself, so I'm addressing that with new agent staff to take some of the work load off my shoulders to get the new submissions addressed quickly, and one additional person whose sole job is to be a personal assistant and help with peripheral tasks like speaking engagements and travel and what have you (Ron, you met Erin at the Retreat, I believe).

I'm planning by Christmas we'll be quite up-to-date and responding to every submission within two weeks, and able to reply quickly on inquiries on status on submissions and on new queries. I take these issues very seriously, since I started out as a writer many, many moons ago, and I know what it's like to wait on answers.

I will say that Gina also networks with other agents, and I will say that my agent (who is fairly new) benifitted from her collaboration and teamwork, which resulted in a nice sale for one of our authors. I believe she goes a step further in the "help" catagory, which has made her quite popular. I would only suggest some patience in dealing with her. I don't think a day goes by where most agents are not typically innundated.

Tri

Gina is also my agent and has even brought projects to me. I've always been impressed by her energy and her organization.

Pulling together all the disparate elements of a recent writer's conference and making them a smoothly-running and very enjoyable whole was quite the accomplishment. I seriously doubt I could've done it, even if I wanted to.

And more than that...she's one cool lady-type person.


(Okay, now where's that chocolate tort you promised?)

I sent Gina my requested full back in July of 2005 and still haven't heard back from her. I figure by now it was rejected but it would have been nice to get at least some comment from her either way.

RonFranscell said:

Although I have participated in this thread for many moons, nobody has provided a scintilla of hard evidence of Gina's untrustworthiness (although Gina herself has responded many times directly on some of those issues.) Much of the carping is coming from newbie (let's say "pre-published") writers who have unreasonable expectations of an admittedly sluggish industry, such as immediate responses, giddy advice and expansive analyses of their manuscripts.

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Writer Beware stands by its comments here and elsewhere.

- Victoria

Like I stated before, it would be nice if an agent responsed to requested material. Gina is so far the only agent or publisher who hasn't responsed back to my material. It makes me wonder what would happen if she did represent me as a client.

victoriastrauss said:

Writer Beware stands by its comments here and elsewhere.

- Victoria

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Huh.

What a coincidence...I stand by my comments here and elsewhere myself.

Y'know, I'm really starting to detect the high-pitched whine of an axe against a grinding wheel here.

ixchel said:

It makes me wonder what would happen if she did represent me as a client.

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It makes me wonder why you don't just--you know--call and ask if she even received it?

ixchel said:

Like I stated before, it would be nice if an agent responsed to requested material. Gina is so far the only agent or publisher who hasn't responsed back to my material. It makes me wonder what would happen if she did represent me as a client.

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Some agents make it a business practice not to respond unless they are interested. Many will say so up front. And while I don't believe this is Ms. Panettieri's policy, it does happen.

In my dealings with Ms. Panettieri, she did not respond to my submission in the time Writer's Market* suggested she would, so I sent a second letter. She responded to my second query, indicating that she had not yet gotten to it, but would very soon. Soon after, she returned a rejection.

Did she reject me because I rushed her? No way to know. It's possible she was on the fence, but since I pressed her she decided against.

If that's the case, then I'm fine with it. An agent should love the book she's representing. An author should know that the agent loves his book and has her full attention. If neither of those is true, then it's not a good fit for either agent or author.

*Note: Writer's Market is often incorrect, so it's a good idea to do additional research.

You have plenty of evidence to AT LEAST modify your statement to allow for good experiences with Gina Panettieri, if only to balance your anonymous-hearsay negatives.

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I'm curious as to what evidence you have, apart from more assumptions, that my statements are based on "anonymous hearsay." I don't reveal my sources, who contact me in the assumption of confidentiality. That's a rather different situation.

Gina's sales in the past 10 months far exceed your 2004 report, yet you stand by your statement?

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As the excerpt I quoted from your post should have made clear, I was responding to your comment about "not a scintilla of evidence." But you're right, that 2004 paragraph about sales is no longer current. Here's the current version:

"I'm aware of just over twenty sales for her in the more than four years since she started Talcott Notch, most to independent publishers that accept submissions direct from authors. There's nothing wrong with placing books with good independents, but the real test of an agent is getting in where the author can't--i.e., to large commercial houses. Also, unless the agency's client list is extremely small, twenty sales in four years isn't a strong track record."

I respect what you and others are doing to protect writers from scammers. But the least you could do is allow for the possibility that A) you were originally wrong, or B) you were right THEN but not right NOW, or C) the facts are not as clear as you originally believed.

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I would certainly allow for those possibilities, if I felt that any of them were valid.

- Victoria

Ron,

Perhaps it would be useful for the discussion, to list the 20 projects she's sold since January (or a significant portion). Such information should be easy to find, from Gina if nowhere else. Most agents are anxious to get the word out about their sales. I see it all the time in Publishers Marketplace.

RonFranscell said:

We have gone beyond the looking-glass when a writer (no less) says a source without a name is NOT an anonymous source.

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My understanding was not that Victoria objected to the word "anonymous", but that she objected to the word "hearsay".

You can go to this page to find out more about how Writer Beware works:

http://www.sfwa.org/beware/about.html

Victoria, could you perhaps email me so I can work with you to update your information re; recent sales history? Obviously communication's always a big plus.

RonFranscell said:

We have gone beyond the looking-glass when a writer (no less) says a source without a name is NOT an anonymous source. LOL

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Anonymous to you. Your implication (as I understood it) was that the sources were anonymous to me. They aren't.

You also seemed to be accusing me of relying on hearsay. I assure you, that's not the case.

You are clearly choosing disgruntled ex-clients or would-be clients, and while that's rather injudicious, you're entitled. And you may even choose the details you'll believe and disbelieve. And you can even decide you'll never be swayed from your first opinion. But as a watchdog, you owe us more than the scant, quibbling, hair-splitting presumptions you've made, based on unnamed sources and wholly unsupported with facts. I have seen no such facts presented here, just presumptions and innuendo.

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You seem determined to believe this (making, incidentally, the same kinds of unfounded "presumptions" about the nature of my documentation that you accuse me of making about Ms. Panettieri's history). Unfortunately, nothing I can say appears to be sufficient to convince you otherwise.

Even your correction is incorrect. Gina Panettieri has sold more than 20 projects SINCE January 2006. Now, I'm not great at math but that would suggest she's sold far more than 20 projects since 2002.

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As I stated, I am aware of just over 20 sales since 2002. If there are more than 20 sales since this past January, I wonder why Ms. Panettieri's listing at Publisher's Marketplace shows only eight (seven to Adams Media's "Everything" line).

Per Ms. Panettieri's request, I've emailed her for information about any additional sales. I will report back--but surely, if you don't trust my reporting in other areas, you shouldn't trust it in this one either. As corroboration, I invite Ms. Panettieri to post the sales info here and at Publisher's Marketplace.

It's time to put up some facts about real chicanery (with named and verifiable sources) and do us a real service, or admit that maybe the problem isn't as large as you make it.

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Because you say so? Sorry. You liken me to a journalist (though I've never claimed to be one), yet condemn me for adhering to a basic journalistic principle--refusing to name my sources. Writer Beware promises confidentiality to the people who contact us with advisories and documentation, and we honor that promise.

- Victoria

Victoria, I've emailed you an update and more info, and I'm in the process of updating my page at Publishers Marketplace. I'll try to keep that as current as possible, but I often don't update it more than once every couple of months. But, over time, that's probably the most accurate and complete record, and will be more completely updated within about the next two-three weeks when the most recent sales have been countersigned and finalized.

I think I should probably stress that we ARE a small, boutique agency, and that's how I intend it to be. I work with a limited clientele and I deal with projects that particularly interest me. Our sales have doubled every six months for the last three years, and the last six months of this year will show a similar increase. That's good business growth regardless of what type of business you're in. Some of those sales have been to series since we've been creative in converting single titles into series books. However, our single title nonfiction have typically been the lead title or one of the lead titles for the publisher for that season.

I've certainly tried to keep up with announcing sales, but was hardly aware it was a matter of some debate on this forum right now. I can only advise folks to drop by the publishersmarketplace page from time to time and I'll try to keep it updated, but honestly, things are pretty busy and it's hard to find time for the work I need to do, so I triage what I take time for. The folks I'm most interested in pleasing are my clients, and they seem pretty content, so that's my primary concern. I hope that makes sense.

Gina-

I was wondering if you ever got my full or if somehow your reply got lost in the snail mail?

Kim Baccellia

Kim, what was the title and date of submission?

RonFranscell said:

Now we're getting somewhere! I appreciate that you are admitting the information upon which you based your statements is sometimes incomplete or wrong, and that more accurate answers might be gleaned by actually going to the primary source instead of third-party sources (websites, no less.)

So your "awareness" and the facts might be two different things. Realizing that is progress. I hope you are open to having your awareness heightened!

Ah, the trust thing. I don't know you and I don't know if I should trust you. Sorry, but that's just wise when dealing with Internet denizens. I would give you the benefit of a doubt if you seemed inclined to do the same. Several named authors have spoken here on Gina's behalf and you are intent on proving to us that we are wrong and you are right. And if we're down to judging Gina only on whether she makes enough sales to the right people to satisfy you, I'd say she's doing OK.

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Ron,

Since Gina is here and apparently willing to discuss this civilly, I don't think that continuing this strident argument is useful.

Victoria is a trusted and well-respected authority, not just to the members of this forum, but to the much larger world of publishing. She is interested in ascertaining facts, not just in proving you wrong and herself right.

If Gina can supply these facts, I'm certain Victoria, Ann, and WriterBeware will be glad to incorporate them into the mix. Whether that will cause them to change their assessment is yet to be seen, but I think it's time to back off and see what happens.