The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

KDude said:

200 PA authors are collaborating on one book.

I doubt any of them knew about this forum.

They do now.

Click to expand...

I'm certain that everyone who participates at that board knows all about this one. Search this thread and the NEPAT Overflow in Take It Outside for "Shelaugh" for more on this.

NancyMehl said:

Aren't a lot of PA employees hired right out of college? Anyone ever consider contacting the school and waking them up to the truth about PA?

My guess is that very few professors would recommend PA if they knew what it really was. In fact, they might include a PA warning as part of their course!

Click to expand...

In those cases where we've been able to track down individual names, yes, they seem to be young women recently graduated from Maryland-area colleges. Few of them appear to have majored in English, however, and there are a large number of small liberal arts colleges in the Baltimore/DC area. It isn't just one school, and it isn't just the English departments in those schools that would have to be alerted.

Our best hope there is that prospective employees will Google PublishAmerica and discover the nature of the place before signing on.

Even then, with jobs for folks in the liberal arts being what they are, I'm sure they'll keep finding new folks to run the spell-checkers as the old ones burn out.

momwrites said:

I have a question for all you old timers. How do you find out how many books are "stocked" at Ingrams or Amazon?

Click to expand...

Amazon you won't find out. You can watch for their "Only five left in stock, more on the way!" notices, but that's about it. Watching Amazon numbers is like watching a squirrel cage. You'll see a lot of motion, but whether it means anything is anyone's guess.

For Ingram, you can call 1-615-213-6803 from a touchtone phone, with your ISBN in hand, and get the numbers.

egem said:

Wow what a fire storm my question has brought on to this board. I didn't really long on for that, but I guess that is nature of this board. I haven't had time to go through all the post since my first question, but a few caught my eye.

Click to expand...

Goodness gracious. I can understand not wanting to read the thousand-plus pages that came before, but not reading the posts that came after your questions, where presumably the answers to your questions would be found?

Nor was this particularly a firestorm. The answers you got were generally helpful and truthful. I suggest that you go back and at least read them, then continue on that basis.

egem said:

Dr. Macdonald are you acting like you don't have an agenda? Do you own a publishing house? I'm sorry if you do not, and I got this fact wrong. As a sci fi writer it seems like you would be all for a nontraditional way to publish. Also, if I dove into your background what would I find?

Click to expand...

I am not now, and never have been, nor have I ever claimed to be, any sort of doctor.

No, I do not own a publishing house.

Why should a "sci fi writer" be more inclined toward non-traditional publishing? Are "sci fi" writers supposed to be so in love with technology that they'll give up readers?

If you dove into my background ... you'll find my background here: http://www.sff.net/people/doylemacdonald/bio.htm It hasn't been updated in far too long, but that should give you a starting point.

You'll find my agenda here: http://www.sff.net/people/yog/

If you like, I can combine all your posts into one, and answer all your questions at once. I'm afraid you're under some serious misapprehensions.

Liz James said:

I believe James Macdonald offers a writing course, Egem.

Click to expand...

It's here: http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6710

ByGrace said:

Housing costs in Frederick are outrageous. The house you mentioned, Jim, may have sold for that when built years ago. Now average houses are well over the 350-400,000 range in that particular neighborhood as well as others. If you can find an average house in the neighborhood where Meiners lives, or anywhere in Frederick for that price, it's a miracle. Apartments are now costing that, and more.

Click to expand...

Good. That means he has assets worth taking.

One reason why the Priceline book didn't get any bites was its year of publication, 2003. Priceline was old news then. As a stock, it tanked--as did almost the company itself--after the internet bubble burst. Had the author shopped the book in 1999 when the market was hot, Priceline stock was hot, and the Priceline model of bid without seeing what your're going to get was an intriguing novely, I believe he would have easily found a publisher. There were a bunh of books that were published during the internet/hi-tech bubble that wouldn't get a nibble today---Dow 18,000, anyone?

What I don't understand is why the guy--who obviously knows how to peddle his merchandise--didn't go with something lwith a better cost structure PA like lulu or even just a printer.

My son's piano teacher is a successful composer--i.e.,, people pay to hear his stuff performed by professionals--who publishes his CDs through lulu, which he sells either through his website, concerts, lectures, etc. He has a platform and very few record labels publish any kind of contempoaryy musical composition. He says it's a good arrangement for him and others in his situation.

NicoleJLeBoeuf said:

Seeing writers be taken advantage of and abused tends to burn the regulars up, and the thing about burnt writers is, they aren't silent about it.

Click to expand...

Is that a mission statement??

NicoleJLeBoeuf said:

.... and the thing about burnt writers is, they aren't silent about it.

Click to expand...

I've always said that it is very unwise to make someone mad who buys ink in 55 gallon drums!

aruna said:

Is that a mission statement??

Click to expand...

If it isn't, it oughtter be.

"When you get burnt, yell."

It's always worked for me. (Well, except when it hasn't.)

...Now. Where can I get me some ink in 55 gallon drums? And does it come in peacock blue?

egem said:

I haven't had time to go through all the post since my first question, but a few caught my eye. One was from Sharon Mass. Many agents have their own editors on staff that do edit the work, and no this isn't revision. Sharon your publisher is Harpercollins. I wouldn't guess you would have an agenda here, but instead of throwing mud about this whole thing, please tell me how you came to be published. This would do much more good for the board. Did you know someone at the company or did you just submit your book directly to them? Please tell me the story of how you became a published author. .

Click to expand...

As this thread is not the place for such info, I have posted it here:
http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20586

BTW, my name is spelt Maas, not Mass.

Cause problems for PA on Health and Safety grounds?

Did anyone take a good look at the pictures someone posted of Willem's brother's trip to Frederick? it showed the Church St office apparently after they aquired it. Never mind the capacity requirements, how did they get past the health department?

Click to expand...

The pictures were posted by WIllem's brother Lars himself. Here is another off the cuff idea, following on from the above interesting point. How about informing the local authorities that PA is claiming 80 employees, but the building is not suitable. Maybe most employees are located elsewhere, but surely it is better to check on Health and Safety grounds? Better safe than sorry.

I once pulled a stunt like this myself a long time ago (back in the 80's). I was an employee for the boss from hell. I quit the company on the grounds of constructive dismissal. Afterwards it was total war, and anything went. This was aggravated by the fact that I set up my own company (which I still run today), and several of my old company's clients came over to me over their own accord. My old boss was powerless because the constructive dismissal claims were black and white (he was a liar and a thief, and he treated his emplyees like sh*t) and were later upheld by the liquidator, because his company went bust a short time later. I am not particularly proud of some aspects of the battle that followed, because much of it was extremely below the belt, but we were no better or worse than each other. One of the things I did was to pass on a detailed description of the building to health and safety, and they confirmed to me in writing that the building failed to meet minimum standards. They then carried out unannounced inspections on the premises.

Someone (Dave, I think) mentioned that Willem Meiners' may have been born in 1941. I did not realize that he was so old. I had imagined that he was born in the early 1950's.

Stop feeding the troll.

PA and libraries...

An interesting thing I've picked up from the PAMB in a few posts now is the fact that PublishAmerica does NOT accept purchase orders from libraries - it's cash/check/credit card please, nothing else.

obviously for those PA authors wanting to try and convince their local libraries to place a copy of the local hero on their shelves it's a bit of a problem.

maybe it's just me, but WHAT reasonable publisher would NOT accept a purchase order from a library? It's not like the money isn't there, it's just the paperwork that every system has in order to put the book on the shelf.

other than the fact that PA is run by greedy nits who obviously don't want anything but the cash upfront in order to finance their shafting of even MORE authors and don't care much for anyone who's not an author buying books...



your thoughts on the matter?

That's a relief!

I have been carefully avoiding the AW Board since it was hijacked. I am glad to see that the hijackers have been removed to another site.

Here is an interesting comment! When I first joined this Board, because I had never posted anywhere before and said so, I too was accused of being a troll. The person making that accusation knows exactly who did it. I did not get all up in arms and huff and puff that I was not a troll. I let time speak for itself. I had already e-mailed Jenna and Ann Crispin, so I knew that they at least would know who I really was. I hope you PA lurkers can recognize the difference between someone trying to convince you they are not a PA plant/troll, and someone who let her story speak for itself. I was ripped off by PA. That's the difference. My story is on this Board at least ten times.

Now for my two cents worth. Royalties are no longer the big problem. RETURNABILITY is. It would seem that PA wants us to shut up about this. No deal!

Next subject - someone posted a while back from the PA Board that the EB case had been settled to the tune of $12,500. We are all familiar with PA's lies, so that might actually have been $72,500. They could always lie and say it was just one keystroke or so away. PA does not want us discussing this matter either. So, listen up, PA lurkers.

Also, the matter of the 200 book catalogue. I hope you all realize just how much money PA will make when you each buy a book or two and no royalties will have to be paid. PA does not want us discussing this matter either.

Last, but not least, the way to hurt PA and prove their true colours is not to buy your own book. Force them to market it. That is what a "traditional" publisher does, or are we talking Vanity Publisher here? Another subject that PA does not want brought up on this Board.

Let's keep hammering these points and not let anyone hijack this Board again. Listen up, PA lurkers et al!
Everyone here has better things to do with their time than write over 1000 pages of posts against PA, without good reason.

PA is rude, lies and cheats. Call my bluff and I will send you the documented evidence, providing you can prove who you really are.

postshy/Roberta

PLEASE NOTE

The title of this thread is: The Neverending Publish America Thread!! Anything regarding other companies should be taken elsewhere.

Troll or not, please respect this board and follow the rules. Start a thread w/ questions somewhere else!!!!

PA continues to illegally sell my book even though my contract was cancelled as of July 2005. That's the kind of thing for this thread.-got it?????????

Correcting Some Misstatements of Law

Wow. Without going back and deconstructing everything, I want to correct a few misstatements of law in the recent sidetracking of this topic.

Egem said:
First when I mentioned here state AG I was just trying to help here. It is usually a good place to start when you have a disagreement over a contract. They would at least direct her to the best course of action.

Click to expand...

I'm afraid not. Not at all.
First, the state AG represents the state. Period. That can sometimes incidentally mean representing some of the interests of individual citizens, but AGs are in fact prohibited from representing individual citizens (except in their official capacity as government officials, and not always then).
Second, most state AGs want nothing to do with contracts that don't involve the state itself. The rest of them don't even want to deal with those contracts—those questions get deferred to a section of the Secretary of State.
Third, most state AGs (and local attorneys who represent the state, often called "District Attorneys") don't know enough about the local legal landscape to make a good referral, let alone advise on a good course of action.

Egem said:
Second, you are 100% right about publishing companies have termination clauses, most say you cannot terminate them unless the company breaks their agreement, but that's neither here not there.

Click to expand...

False. Most commercial publishing contracts have multiple termination clauses, ranging from failure to submit a conforming manuscript and late delivery (on the author's side) to failure to publish within a specific window and manuscript refusal (on the publisher's side).
Further, even when not stated in the contract, there are a lot of common-law and statutory reasons to terminate a contract that are included in the contract. For example, every US contract includes the warranty of merchantability, which cannot be disclaimed (no matter what the contract itself says). A simple example is purchasing a new book that falls apart as soon as you leave the store because there's no glue in the spine. Even if the store claims "all stock as is," that cannot disclaim the warranty of merchantability.

Egem said:
Also, "they draw up contracts specifying what rights each publisher will have" isn't this sharing rights? The publishers work it out so they both get something from the deal.

Click to expand...

False. These are two entirely different questions. "Sharing rights" is something that happens only when there are joint copyright holders. Everything else is a license, from which both parties hope to benefit—but that is not at all what anyone in publishing (or law) would understand as "sharing rights."
Can I make my bimonthly plea for people to stop stating "the law says..." without either (1) getting a law license or (2) looking it up in a reputable source first?

egem said:

I have new question for the board. It's not really about PA but rather the nature of publishing. PA right now is making money. They are what seems to be a free POD.

Click to expand...

The key words are "seems to." They make their money from the authors, by charging very high cover prices. So high that only the authors (and the authors' moms and dads) would pay them.

Where there is money there are others to want to make the money, so what happens where there are more companies using PAs idea of publishing.

Click to expand...

There's always Lulu.com -- they take a percentage of the price of each book sold. They don't pretend to be a publisher ... they're a printer. Any printer will charge more than the cost of materials for their products. It's understandable and understood.

I don't mean all the mistakes and all that, but rather publishing anyone and anything for free? PA pulled down a few million last year. More companies are going to follow their lead. My question is what happens when you can publish anything by anything for free? Do you think it is coming?

Click to expand...

Xlibris started out by printing everything and everyone for free, under the theory that the marketplace would pull the pearls from the mud. It didn't work. No one pays to read slush. They went broke, then started charging an up-front fee.

Merely putting something into print doesn't get you a single reader. That's something that all the blue-sky theorizers about Everyone An Author! ought to think about.

PA charges just as much or more than any other vanity, but they do it on the back end -- it's a vanity press on the installment plan. They cover it all with their smoke and mirrors talk about bookstores and royalties and acceptances and traditional from-sea-to-shining-sea and We Are Not a POD in Any Way, Shape, or Form talk. They market heavily to their own authors. And that's the main objection to them. They're liars.

PA is not a free printer (please do not call them a publisher)

You have to pay for your own copyright, commercial publishers pay for it.

PA steals your work after they've cancelled your contract. Mine was terminated in July 2005.

Criminals are not generally considered a threat to large commercial publishers.

egem said:

James again we are talking about apples and oranges. Little or literary publishers charge very close to the same price as PA. Look up some books by some of the authors I've pointed out and you'll see that. As a matter of fact those "MFAs" are charging around 14 for a book while PA is charging 15.

Click to expand...

Where are you finding PA books for just $15?

You also made my point for me others have tried and failed where PA is making a good living. They are indeed a free POD. Can anyone find another?

Click to expand...

You've been told several times: Lulu.com

As far as "free," PA is just as "free" as Kinko's. If you don't buy any copies of your book Kinko's is free too.

PA is doing what many future publishers will do. We will see more of this. So to keep it under the PA topic. Does PAs model of publishes anything by anyone threaten the big publishing houses and will we see more of this? Same question wored differently.

Click to expand...

No, many future publishers won't be doing this. No, PA doesn't threaten the big publishing houses. I hope to goodness we won't see more of this.

When PA goes down, I'm sure another scammer will rise up claiming to be a "traditional" publisher. Then we can have a never-ending thread about them, until they too go to jail. Of the making of scams there is no end.

egem, welcome..............

Uncle Jim, you have the patience of a saint. I have to admire you. Egem, all the answers are here on AW. Read it! I have. Do you believe that just by using the word PA you can remain on this particular thread. It seems to me that everyone here has been polite and patient, but you have not yet admitted to reading what you have been directed to. Why don't you come back after you do so, then perhaps it will be easier to discuss your concerns.

I am not being cruel, just realistic. And I am a PA Author!

postshy/Roberta

I know, Uncle Jim, this probably belongs on the TIO.