Harrassment by Women in a Men's World

robjvargas

Rob J. Vargas
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Specifically, Silicon Valley.

Actually, I almost went looking for a writing forum to put this in. I'm more confused by the reporting than by the allegations.

Here's a story from CNN about a female software engineer working in Silicon Valley and alleging sexual harrassment... by a female supervisor.

The allegations are news, but that wasn't what got my attention. It was this, stuck toward the end of the story:

"You'll see more sexual harassment cases in Silicon Valley because of the male dominated culture," said Mathew Da Vega, a lawyer representing Shi. He acknowledged this particular case is different because it involves two women.

:Huh::Shrug:

Umm... okay? And...? I don't get the relevance of the statement, and I don't get what CNN thought made it worthy of inclusion here.

Tell you what, I'll find a story about a man abusing a cat, and then just randomly include a statistic that more women own cats. I don't know if that's true, but even if it is, what would one have to do with another?

[A]ccording to the attorney, Silicon Valley companies are "hyper sensitive," operating in a system of money and perception.

"Instead of dealing with the issue like they should have," he said, "their immediate response is to deny, deny."

Now that's more relevant.
 

Williebee

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I suppose it is possible that they are attempting to express a concern that, in an environment of misogyny a case of female on female sexual harassment won't get the consideration it deserves. Fact is though, if it is true, it's about power, not gender.
 

Xelebes

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I suppose it is possible that they are attempting to express a concern that, in an environment of misogyny a case of female on female sexual harassment won't get the consideration it deserves. Fact is though, if it is true, it's about power, not gender.

Power from the lack of power.
 

Xelebes

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That's an interesting thought. Would you expand on that, please?

The company in question is a lot like the others in Silicon Valley (assumption), project-based with time deadlines so as to not be outdone by a competitor and with shareholders and lenders expecting return on their investment. It's a hectic go and everyone is racing to get the current projects through the necessary stages of development. And then ye are forced to confront a situation: which lawsuit are ye willing to lose on, the one with the shareholders for the failure of projects and the resulting loss of revenue or the one who is complaining about sexual harassment?
 

Xelebes

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Wow. That didn't go at all where my head went. Thanks for elaborating.

Perversely enough, there is a sense of justice in how it played out. The shareholders take it on the nose for not giving the room for the CEO to deal with human problems.
 

robjvargas

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The company in question is a lot like the others in Silicon Valley (assumption), project-based with time deadlines so as to not be outdone by a competitor and with shareholders and lenders expecting return on their investment. It's a hectic go and everyone is racing to get the current projects through the necessary stages of development. And then ye are forced to confront a situation: which lawsuit are ye willing to lose on, the one with the shareholders for the failure of projects and the resulting loss of revenue or the one who is complaining about sexual harassment?

I think you have a point. A damn big one. A wide variation to the "bean counter" moment in Class Action.

I still don't get the relevance of the male domination comment, though. Not to the case in question in their story.
 

Xelebes

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This brings up a point that I burped in another thread and then promptly removed due to it being misplaced. The potential for a conflict of interest in the development of Rape Culture Theory, especially in US Colleges.

US Prisons have (perhaps had in many prisons) a problem with rape. Epidemiologically, rape was due to a power vacuum and thus a symptom. It was one of several abuses that were taking place in prison. Wardens and administrators simply did not give two brown bits about what was going in the prisons and concerned themselves with their own safety.

US colleges have a similar problem but different causes. There have been a couple threads in the past on "if you are going to report it, report it to the campus police." These threads are outnumbered by those on rape culture and the effect it has on schools. Perhaps it does but I think this phenomenon that has been related is more illustrative of the problem than simply blaming rape culture. The problem is that the campus police are perhaps the problem and having them separate from other police forces: hiding the number of safety issues at colleges. If you hide safety issues, it is easier to sell the college which a college must do since stable funding of colleges from the state has been pulled from underneath them. If you hide safety issues, there will easier to sell themselves to alumni.

So let's go back to the rape victim in college. If they don't come to the police, and they have good reason to not trust campus police, they might be led to open up to other outlets: university hospital or perhaps the women's/gender studies faculty or closest approximation thereof. If this issue is being thrusted upon the gender studies faculty and they are being asked to come up with a solution to the problem, they might be not in the best position to come up with an answer. They might come up with a partial solution (rape culture, looking at male development, what not), but taking on a major piece of the puzzle - at least within their scope of capability - is going to be out of their hands as long as their hands are tied up by the fact that they can't go after the administrations for not removing the barriers that they have set up to protect their image. So a lot of class time is spent on discussing rape culture in terms that divorce it from the bigger story, where rape culture is more often than not a symptom of a larger problem.
 

jennontheisland

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I still don't get the relevance of the male domination comment, though. Not to the case in question in their story.
I do. And this may be an entirely weird and skewed perspective but... systemic internalization.

When women enter a male-dominated field there is some pressure to conform to certain behaviors (whether or not to wear makeup actually came up as a point of discussion at my local Women in Construction chapter). Also, golf as a means of doing business. And the language one uses when discussing contract terms, behaviors of subcontractors, etc. If the culture and the working environment is one that includes harassing behavior, yes, I can see that line being crossed by women as they conform to the typical behaviors of those around them. And so as women move up in the ranks and gain positions of power, they adopt behaviors of the rest of their new cohort.

The males dominate in terms of representation in the population and in terms of determining what behaviors are acceptable.
 
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frimble3

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I do. And this may be an entirely weird and skewed perspective but... systemic internalization.

When women enter a male-dominated field there is some pressure to conform to certain behaviors (whether or not to wear makeup actually came up as a point of discussion at my local Women in Construction chapter). Also, golf as a means of doing business. And the language one uses when discussing contract terms, behaviors of subcontractors, etc. If the culture and the working environment is one that includes harassing behavior, yes, I can see that line being crossed by women as they conform to the typical behaviors of those around them. And so as women move up in the ranks and gain positions of power, they adopt behaviors of the rest of their new cohort.

The males dominate in terms of representation in the population and in terms of determining what behaviors are acceptable.
^This. That was my thought on the 'male dominated culture'
as well. 'This is the way the males in a position of power behave, and if I wish to be seen as being in a position of power, this is what I should be doing'.
It would be interesting to find out if Zhang regularly has sex with women, or if this is just a learned behavior. ie, it isn't about sex but about dominance. How many times has Zhang done this, and this is just the only time a victim has gone public?
And, if this is behavior learned behavior, I can see the company not wanting an investigation. Where did she learn it? How long has this been going on? And how many men are doing the same thing? I think they'd much rather have it play out as 'some rogue woman'. Better yet, 'some rogue lesbian'.