Biden says Hillary may have been better VP choice

maestrowork said:

I did not hammer her. I've made sure that I did not.

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You don't like the word choice? I'll withdraw it. But you did criticize her for her choice, not because you thought it said something about her, but because she should have realized that OTHERS would make the complaint that they did, right?

And on this thread, you said you were impressed by what Biden said, right?

I see that as absolutely inconsistent. Sorry.

Besides, I see the two as apples and oranges, even though we're talking about people's reactions and comments.

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I agree.

Cindy McCain is not a candidate for public office, Biden is.

And saying a person's fashion choices say something about who that person is--in an ideological sense--is 100% subjective. What a person says is certainly open to interpretation, but words still mean something, as a matter of course. It's not all subjective, by a long shot.

Biden: "Hillary Clinton is as qualified or more qualified than I am to be vice president of the United States of America, let’s get that straight."

"More"? On what conceivable basis?

robeiae said:

You don't like the word choice? I'll withdraw it. But you did criticize her for her choice, not because you thought it said something about her, but because she should have realized that OTHERS would make the complaint that they did, right?

And on this thread, you said you were impressed by what Biden said, right?

I see that as absolutely inconsistent. Sorry.

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I was impressed by Biden because he said what he said even though I'm sure he knew the pundits would comment on that. And I think he's sincere in saying that. He was paying Hillary Clinton a compliment. *I* think he was gracious.

I already said Cindy McCain is fine to wear her jewelry. I did not hammer her for doing that. She looked great -- I didn't even know those diamonds cost that much, nor did I care. She has every right to do that. It's her money, her clothes, her diamonds. What I said was that she should have known that people would call her rich and and out of touch and elitist, given what Michelle Obama already went through. Granted, she probably did know and she decided to wear that anyway. And that's fine.

That's exactly what I said -- it's fine.

So it's also fine that Biden said what he said. It's fine.

Biden: "Hillary Clinton is as qualified or more qualified than I am to be vice president of the United States of America, let’s get that straight."

"More"? On what conceivable basis?

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So what if he thinks Hillary Clinton is MORE qualified? It doesn't mean Biden himself is not qualified? I really don't see any problem here.

Now, if he had said "Sarah Palin is as qualified or more qualified than I am" then he'd really be losing his mind.

The fact is, Hillary Clinton is NOT VP candidate. He is. And the fact is, he did not say he is NOT qualified to be VP.

Sure, interpret all you want. Just as people would interpret Cindy McCain as a rich woman who doesn't care about the poor.

The point is, we should all look past all that. I already said I didn't care if Cindy McCain had wore her jewelry, and I already said I didn't think Biden had put a foot in his mouth.

So, nope, as far as I am concerned, I've been consistent.

I'm just curious why someone would say, "I used to like and respect Biden, until now" just because he paid Hillary Clinton a compliment?

Ray, I was well aware of whom you were talking about.

Cindy is not the candidate. I still maintain that her being anything less than she is, would have been pretentious.

Back-paddling?.. if that's what you want to call that comment, so be it. I was agreeing that he may have meant to be humble and sincere, but that's not how it came out---and giving the recent mess of backlash, I think as a politician he should have been aware of that.

.... seriously...

With all the other stuff going on, all the issues, all the facts, all the problems the country is facing...

We are here arguing about lipsticks, if Biden thinks Hillary is better than he, or if Sarah Palin is a good mom, bad mom?

With that thought, I'm bowing out of this thread.

Ray, I respect you opinions and I believe you are being completely honest on how you see these things. I believe you don't see any inconsistency. I mean it.

That said, what can I do? I remember this stuff too well, I guess.

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2721699&postcount=62

Anyway, I think it was a mistake, especially considering the whole "elitist" criticism going around, people questioning about her financial status, etc., and comparing to Michelle Obama's down-to-Earth Target variety fashion. In a climate when people are complaining about soaring prices, bad economy and jobs going overseas, I think it was a mistake for Cindy McCain to wear her $280,000 diamond earrings and $22,000 peal necklace. It does give off a vibe that, "no, she's not one of us.

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Apply the same standard. With all the "experience" talk going around, was it wise of Biden to say what he said?

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2721757&postcount=75

Maybe, but image is everything in politics. You should know that. And McCain should know that.

Again, it's a judgment thing. America was watching, talking, and pointing. If they're talking about Cindy McCain's $313,000 get-up, they're not talking about McCain's policies or how he cares about the middle class.

Whether it's her fault or her critics' fault, she still failed with regard to public opinion.

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So Cindy failed for wearing what she wanted to wear, and she failed with regard to public opinion as a whole. But Biden gets high marks for saying what he said, even though he knew some pundits would criticize him?

Now, I'll say no more. I promise.

Folks, why this thread now all about what Ray says? That's not the purpose of this forum. I'm moving it to hardcore and I'm asking that this kind of stuff end, it doesn't serve the purpose of edifying members who come here for political discourse. It's this internal bickering that annoys people the most, I'd appreciate it if you'd stop.

If you want to start a thread in TC on this topic, fine. Just make sure it doesn't go down the same road or I'll be back to lock it.

I said I would bow out and I would, but I think Rob deserves an answer, before we go in circles:

I think Cindy McCain failed NOT because she didn't have the right to do what she wanted, or even because people talked. People will talk anyway. I think she failed because she knew the scrutiny against Obama and his wife, as elitist. And she knew people were already criticizing her for being this out of touch "rich heiress." This wasn't news to her. Either her advisor didn't tell her that people will talk about her $300K wardrobe and compare that to Michelle Obama, or that she did not care.

I don't think Biden failed because the question isn't whether Biden is qualified to be VP. No one is questioning his experiences or qualifications. He said what he said to pay Clinton a compliment. So yes, maybe he played into the bit where people are questioning whether Obama should have picked Hillary instead. But that's not his call. And again, he did not imply that HE was not qualified. So I don't think he's failed, regardless how others want to interpret him.

It is about political image. In my mind, Cindy McCain played into the "I'm rich, so deal with it" image of an out of touch heiress, when her husband is talking about the struggling middle class and poor. And she did it knowing she's been criticized for her wealth.

In my mind, Biden did not play into the "I'm not qualified" image because nothing he said implied that. And no one had said he wasn't qualified. If we want to talk about if Hillary would be a better choice, then I suppose we could say he failed in that regard. But to me, it was Obama's choice, not Biden's choice. Unless Obama had said, "Hillary was a more qualified person" -- I really don't see an image problem here, except the Republicans want to make it that way. Far as I know, Obama does think Biden is the best-qualified person for the job.

So as far as political image is concerned, I can't compare the two. But sure enough, one is just a candidate's wife (except he's also wealthy himself), and the other is the politician.

And like I said, I now bow out of this discussion.

Thanks, Dawno. I posted before I saw your post (and the move).

Dawno said:

I'm moving it to hardcore and I'm asking that this kind of stuff end, it doesn't serve the purpose of edifying members who come here for political discourse.

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I'm lost, isn't the purpose of Hardcore to have discussions where people debate with facts they can back up?

I'll clarify - sorry I was posting in a bit of haste.

I want the kind of back and forth that happened in this thread when it was in TC to not go on in TC - it's fine here in Hardcore where you're expected to face those questions and support your positions. It's not what the TC forum is about. I was vague in my antecedents in the post above, I apologize.

The back and forth between two or three members is what people complained the most about in the old P&CE and we don't want to revive it in the new TC. In this forum, Hardcore, you may "call 'em as you see 'em"