Learn Writing with Uncle Jim, Volume 1

sunandshadow said:

I want to get to writing the book, really I do, but how do I start if I don't know what I'm writing toward?

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Just write. Let the book come to you. Sounds crazy I know. Start at the start and watch the movie in your mind. What are the characters doing, write it. It will come if you start. Sorry Jim. I defer.

How many chapters do you see? How long do you see your book being?

Divide that diagram into however many parts as your book will have chapters.

Say it's twenty chapters of 20 pages each. Divide the diagram into 20 segments.

Think of what your climax will be.

Now, without more ado, look at the first segment.

Write the first chapter with that bit of diagram pinned beside your monitor.

Looks like the chapter begins with Merru, and Lieann joins about half-way through.

You probably want to expand and even up the right-hand side of the diagram so you can see what's in there.

BTW, the diagram is pretty messy -- I don't see it as terribly like a Celtic knot.

Try using this one:



That's Merru and Attranath at the top left and Lieann and Ravenin at the bottom left. The midpoint far left is where two minor characters join in.

Fit your plot into that diagram. I fear that the diagram you showed me is your plot as it stands. Rearrange it until it's even and regular, with strict. interlacings. Fit your plot onto the diagram above. Alter the plot to follow the curves and maintain the balance.

James D. Macdonald said:

How many chapters do you see? How long do you see your book being?

Divide that diagram into however many parts as your book will have chapters.

Say it's twenty chapters of 20 pages each. Divide the diagram into 20 segments.

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okay 500 pages of book * 250 words per page / 3,000 words per my average scene = ~41 chapters
Dividing my diagram, I get 16, 14, and 11 chapters in the 3 segments of the book.

Think of what your climax will be.

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I don't know exactly what has to happen here, but the four characters must work together as a team, combining their unique abilities (creative problem solving, strategy, force of will, and loyalty) to overcome the societal prejudice arrayed against them and gain official recognition as a family. I was thinking maybe they should win a wargame/tournament, but... I'm not sure what would work best.

Now, without more ado, look at the first segment.

Write the first chapter with that bit of diagram pinned beside your monitor.

Looks like the chapter begins with Merru, and Lieann joins about half-way through.

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Actually the first chapter is just Merru coming to terms with the aftermath of the initial incident (he wakes up in an alien body, in an alien world, where he doesn't understand the language or have any idea how/why he's there. Chapter 2 is Lieann though.

You probably want to expand and even up the right-hand side of the diagram so you can see what's in there.

BTW, the diagram is pretty messy -- I don't see it as terribly like a Celtic knot.

(snip)

Fit your plot into that diagram. I fear that the diagram you showed me is your plot as it stands. Rearrange it until it's even and regular, with strict. interlacings. Fit your plot onto the diagram above. Alter the plot to follow the curves and maintain the balance.

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Well, I agree that the right hand side should be neater - it ought to be a flat four-strand braid but I didn't know how to draw one of those.

The reason I picked the shape I did is that the first 1/3 of the book has two parallel plots in two different settings - so, I don't think I can put interlacings there since the two groups of characters never see or talk to each other.

Structure is really, really hard for me to wrap my head around, so I think this can be terribly useful if I can figure it out...

So I took the liberty of coloring in the knot.


Merru and Attranath are purple, yes? And Lieann and Ravenin blue? So... hm... would the top half of the purple represent one character, and the bottom half the other? Or does it not work like that? Red and green are minor characters? Or themes, maybe? I only see one strand at the left midpoint, so I'm not sure how that represents two characters.

I can almost grasp how you would go about putting this into practice, but not quite... what would it tell you about what's in the first chapter?

Fillanzea said:

Merru and Attranath are purple, yes? And Lieann and Ravenin blue? So... hm... would the top half of the purple represent one character, and the bottom half the other?

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Yep. Or ... add a couple of more colors. At the left-most points, divide so you have an upper purple, and what was the lower purple is now ... yellow.

Same way, divide the blue at the left-most point.

Then divide the red at the left-most point, so you have a top that's red, and a bottom that's grey. (They'll meet again to the right of that small figure.)

I can almost grasp how you would go about putting this into practice, but not quite... what would it tell you about what's in the first chapter?

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Introductions of the four characters. Purple is at the very top, so it's stressed.

This isn't mechanical ... it's more of a meditation device, and shows you what has to be in the chapter. How you get it there -- that's another problem.

For your climax: Think of something that would look really good in wide screen 70mm with Dolby sound and a score by John Williams. That will be the climax you're driving toward. You may not ever get there, but it gives you an aim point.

I think my head's going to explode...

Ooooh.

Thanks for the explanation!

Ye olde memories

I have read through the first sixteen pages or so of this thread, and found some things very entertaining.

Not to rehash, but to remind...

Prologues - I have never skipped them. I sometimes skip Forewords, but not prologues. Maybe that's because I'm a writer that I know there's something in there worth reading. I figure if your editor likes the Prologue, they can keep it, or if they think it's a bad idea, then they can ditch it. I just found the discussion intriguing. I'm changing my prologue to chapter one, though. Just to be safe.

Outlining - That one was covered pretty well, I think. I'm an outliner, though by scene or chapter. It's perhaps maybe an eighth of my novel length, so nowhere near Uncle Jim's, but anyway, I'm raising my hand as one of 'em.

I also had to say SOMETHING about something that I thought was something hilarious:

It is OKAY to say "You are wrong," if you are a person with credentials. Like a whole slew of PUBLISHED NOVELS! It is not rude to say "you are wrong," if that is an accurate statement.

I will say that MS Word puts little green squigglies under "something, then..."
I HATE IT. "and then" IS wrong in prose fiction. You can just tell! It feels clumsy! Though maybe it works in formal writing.

I know, I know, rehash. I'm done. Once I got to page 20, then found out there were 143 pages.... Yeah well I figured I'd come up here to the front.

Hello everyone, the name's Jim. And I too, am an uncle Jim, though perhaps not to you.

flashbacks

I have a question for all the writing gurus: What do you think of flashbacks? Do they work for adding in backstory, or have they become cliches in today's world?

Actually, that was two questions.

jlawrenceperry said:

I have read through the first sixteen pages or so of this thread, and found some things very entertaining.

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Welcome, Other Jim!

What're you working on, and what are your goals?

Wandering in just to see what this place is all about.

Will never catch up with all the posts...

Oh, well...

Will never catch up with all the posts...

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Oh, you should definitely try! It will be worth your time.

black winged fighter said:

I have a question for all the writing gurus: What do you think of flashbacks? Do they work for adding in backstory, or have they become cliches in today's world?

Actually, that was two questions.

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Flashbacks are a tool like any other for a telling story. If they work for your story, use them, I am making extensive use of flashbacks for my WIP as those distant events connect with future events in my book.

black winged fighter said:

What do you think of flashbacks? Do they work for adding in backstory, or have they become cliches in today's world?

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Flashbacks are like any other scene. Don't use flashbacks to add backstory. Only use flashbacks to advance the plot.

James D. Macdonald said:

What're you working on, and what are your goals?

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I am trying to get to the end of my first Fantasy novel right now. I have been working on this thing since college ('97 or so), but never really got serious about being published until around '01 or '02.

What was I doing during all this time? Lots of growing up, lots of writing garbage and getting the garbage out of my system. It has gone through many changes, all for the better, and I've had periods of drought, and unemployment (which tends to put one's mind back on dayjob things). Every time I had droughts I'd keep reading (novels and instruction--things like this thread), and inevitably, by the time I came back to it, I had a new perspective and I retooled it. Now I'm just trying to suffer through my first real rough draft.

I think had I completed a rough three years ago, finished it, then sent it off, I would have been in that lower 90% of the slush. I've had to be purged of my newbie writer sensibilities in order to feel comfortable--although I don't really feel comfortable.

(I used a -- instead of an elipsis. To imply a break, not a pause. Remember that little dustup? TEE HEE HEE )

[Okay, that sounded like a little girl... ahem... BWA HA HA HA HA]

I think when I felt comfortable, I was ignorant, and was very sensitive about what was already written down (on my stone tablets, dont ya know). Now that I am sufficiently UNcomfortable, I know I have much more to continue learning, which I think will help me in an editing process.

What are my goals?

I don't know... finish the darn thing? But really, aside from finally getting that under my belt, I would like to be published, obviously. It would be fantastic to "make it" as a novelist, and do that for a living. Really I want to write novels and run a cottage recording studio business, and do a little independent music (writing, performance). That is my ultimate dream, I think. Perchance I see myself teaching at a community college and writing workshops if I can ever establish myself.

(little known secret, Uncle J.D.MacD is also a slight role model for me)

Since I like my day job, I don't think I will be looking for any excuse to leave it. I just want to get some writing done and see what happens. I have a sequel in mind that just makes me want to start writing that one before I get done with this one! (back, Devil, back!) I just had an epiphany about it one day, and BOOM! There it was. It increases the scope of the story and the stakes for the characters, and I think will be better than the first one.

I have plans for another fantasy series that is about Knights and codes of honor and political intrigue and all that good stuff.

I have plans for a Sci-Fi/Space Opera series that sort of has a Cussler-esque feel to it with some Clancy thrown in. Everything I write has a lot of Cussler influence, except without the machismo and cameos. I just love a rousing and fun adventure, also similar to Feist and Weis/Hickman. Anyway, these are going to be HUGE books saved for a time that I am allowed to write books that big. Sort of in the Robert Jordan/Terry Goodkind page range.

And then I have an idea for a modern detective novel, a pirate novel, and a lone hero vigilante type novel set in a fantasy period.

WHEW! Okay, I am done, really!

astonwest said:

I think my head's going to explode...

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Me too. I don't understand how a character's linear, chronological progression from the beginning to the end of the story can possibly be represented by a line which doubles back of loops over itself. I can understand how the ring shape can go with the Circle of magic books, because if you cut the ring like a pizza to get the segment representing a single book, it's more or less linear. But I'm only dealing with one book, and while I understand that a story is supposed to end more or less where it began, I don't think it should take a regular or symmetrical path to get there.

I mean, think of Freytag's pyramid, the peak is on the left side, not in the middle. Think about music - the most regular, symmetrical music is the most deadly boring to listen to. My goal with designing two parallel plots, one offset slightly from the other, was to always have a highpoint be ocurring in one of the two plots, so there isn't a boring lull when a conflict has been resolved in the other plot.

Maybe I'm just not seeing these knots in at all the way intended. Maybe I shouldn't worry about seeing them in the way intended; as long as whatever variant I come up with helps me visualize my plot it 'works', right?

I don't understand how a character's linear, chronological progression from the beginning to the end of the story can possibly be represented by a line which doubles back of loops over itself.

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Some protagonists try to solve their problems through the same flawed tactics that they're relied on in the past. Some visit other characters and the conflicts with those characters several times over the course of a story. Some pursue one wrong goal after another in their quest to find a satisfactory resolution.

At least, that's how I read it.

jlawrenceperry said:

I will say that MS Word puts little green squigglies under "something, then..."
I HATE IT. "and then" IS wrong in prose fiction. You can just tell! It feels clumsy! Though maybe it works in formal writing.

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Oh, not the old "and then" debate again! Nobody ever wins. All I can do is restate my position. (Maybe a stray newcomer to the thread will notice.) Switching from formal (i.e., academic) writing to fiction doesn't convert "then" from an adverb to a conjunction.

"It feels clumsy" – well, feelings are pretty subjective, aren't they? To me, "He washed the dishes, then dried them" feels and looks wrong and clumsy. If "then" feels like a conjunction to you, why do you have a comma in front of it?

I use "and then" 99% of the time. After reading the arguments in this thread, I tried using just "then" but it usually felt wrong. The only time it doesn't feel wrong to me is when the writing is trying to convey a rushed feeling.

Now that I'm hypersensitive to it, I notice when an author uses "then" vs. "and then". I was reading Iris Johansen's latest over lunch and she used "and then". She uses "was" a lot too. And sells a ton of books.

When one would like to ensure that his rating goes up, one must be diplomatic. Therefore I shall decree the following:

I do not wish to "win."
I am not playing "the game."
I am here to learn, as the thread states unto me.
I shall henceforth no longer mention past controversy with a BWA HA HA HA or a TEE HEE HEE HEE.
Getting published involves much subjectivity on the part of an editor. Ergo, it seems to me feelings are rather relevant.
I never said "then" feels like a conjunction to me. It feels more like a velvet blanket thrown over a carmel sundae.

BWA HEE HEE HA HA HA HEE

jlawrenceperry said:

I never said "then" feels like a conjunction to me. It feels more like a velvet blanket thrown over a carmel sundae.

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I know you didn't say "then" felt like a conjunction, but if "He washed the dishes, then dried them" sounds okay to you, you're using (construing) it as a conjunction.

"He washed the dishes AND [conjunction] dried them."
"He washed the dishes IMMEDIATELY [adverb] dried them."
"He washed the dishes SOON [adverb] dried them."

HConn said:

I put a phrase in the "reply" box and into the forum. The post went through my eyeballs and into my brain. Screaming, I ran through the door and into the yard.

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"And into" = conjunction + preposition. I tried, but I didn't get the point of these examples. Where do they fit in the "then" discussion?

I'm curious ...

Hi,

The novel I'm currently doing Agricultural work on is a story about love, self-respect and social discrimination. I'm looking for some input regarding my setting.
I noticed some time ago that there are very (very) few books written from an Islamic perspective i.e. with characters living typical Muslim lifestyles. Most of the books I (personally) have read are stories exposing the oppression of women in Saudi Arabia/Afghanistan/Any other country with Islam as a major faith.

I believe that some writers (e.g. Jean Sasson) have tried to emphasize that the stories are about Saudi women, but I think it's difficult for many to differentiate culture from faith.

It was the infamous Norma Khouri book that actually prompted me to write an article for the AW newsletter (http://www.absolutewrite.com/fun/same_world.htm ) and then start working on a book. I wasn't aiming for a preachy story -- I'm not writing about religion -- I just wanted to write about normal people living lives, facing challenges and overcoming problems, and these people happen to be Muslims.

What I'm wondering then is how much stereotyping I'm looking at dispelling, if any. My main character is a Indian-Muslim woman who wears the veil by choice. She's intelligent, strong and independent. I think I've brought that across through her dialogue, behaviour and the decisions she makes throughout the story, but will that be enough?

From my point of view, (feel free to correct me) it's easier to create a new society with its own norms and rules when you're working with a fantasy world, because your reader knows that that's the big one you're getting away with in the beginning, as in I know dragons don't exist. Now that you're telling me they do in this world you're inviting me into, make them believable.

Is it different if you're writing about a society with 'strange' rules and perceptions that is Here and Now? Not all my characters react as people in other societies do under the same circumstances. Do I need to explain the 'why?' behind everything they do? Actually, that's something my beta-readers should be able to help with…

My main fear is really about perception. Will readers believe my characters are realistic or is there too much of an established opinion out there? Will it be enough if I tell my story well or am I also dealing with something beyond what the craft of writing a good story can handle?

I hope I got my question across properly, anything that sounds offensive or paranoid is unintentional. I'm just plain curious about what I might need to make my story one that can be familiar and welcoming to Indian-Muslim readers, and at the same time interestingly foreign (not alien) to non-Indian/non-Muslim readers.

Thanks!

FreeSlave786 said:

Do I need to explain the 'why?' behind everything they do?

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I don't know the official answer, but if your characters act consistently that's good enough for me. If I were writing it I might devote two whole sentences to explanation, maybe three if I were feeling sassy. The characters' thoughts, words and actions should be enough.

If you're still worried, you might want to include a few scenes from a westerner's POV if it's doable. I probably wouldn't worry about it.