Busted for shopping while Black/ not Oprah

Kylabelle · Oct 23, 2013

Busted for trying to buy a belt; the clerk thought he must be stealing it.

Plainclothes detectives hauled Christian off Fifth Avenue and into the local precinct.

There, Christian produced his identification, his debit card from Chase and the receipt with his name on it, the suit states.

“In spite of producing such documentation, Christian was told that his identification was false and that he could not afford to make such an expensive purchase.”

It was a $350 belt. Christian has no arrest record. After he was released, he returned the belt in disgust.

I don't know if anything else can even be said about this, but since there was a thread about Oprah being busted for asking to look at a "too expensive for Black folk" handbag, well, this isn't Oprah.

I also think $350 for a belt is kind of ridiculous, like I thought the handbag price was absurd, but that's a personal value judgment that has nothing to do with the ethics involved here.

And I imagine there is a lot of pressure on sales clerks in high end stores to catch and thwart thieves and shoplifters. But along with that pressure ought to come some training in cultural intelligence.

I wanted a Post Icon of someone puking, but that's not available.

cornflake · Oct 23, 2013

I suspect this may have more to do with 'teen' than 'black'. Had that been a similarly young-looking kid dressed the same way of some other race buying a similarly-priced accessory, may have gone the same way.

Not that I'm excusing the store employees or cops - he'd already bought it, and god knows many of the people with a lot of money wander around dressed in whatever. It was ridiculous to make those assumptions.

Forrest Whitaker was accosted in a deli a few months back, accused of having shoplifted something. That was a clear case of shopping while black. This, I'm not so sure.

robjvargas · Oct 23, 2013

I've been in stores where white patrons were attended to and black ones were followed. You know what I mean.

And this despite my own feeling that institutional racism is essentially dead.

This is especially bad. Evidence was provided and rejected. That's awful. That is treating someone like a second class citizen. Or even lower.

It's not a post icon, but here:

Yorkist · Oct 23, 2013

For sweet fuck's sake.

Are we as a society really not past this?

I don't think it was because the boy was a teen. Not just because of that, anyway. It was probably a factor, but would it have happened had he not been shopping while black? I doubt it. Maybe a white kid would have been given the stank-eye, but by the police? No, I don't buy that.

veinglory · Oct 23, 2013

I had the experience of a saleperson refusing to show me an item while patronizingly explaining it was "very expensive". And that is just because I wasn't dressed like a sufficiently wealthy white person. At least I haven't been dragged to the police station yet.

I guess some people don't realize that not everyone uses the same yuppie dress code to signal their socioeconomic status these days.

Cella · Oct 23, 2013

I've worked in retail for virtually all of my working life (much of in in upscale department stores) and this kind of behavior on the part of the sales associates would not have been tolerated in the least. I can't tell you how many times I've sat someone down in my chair (makeup) and for a variety of reasons thought to myself that they might not buy anything, only to be blown away by the huge purchase they made.

You can never tell everything just by looks and it's to everybody's detriment when people try.

Kylabelle · Oct 23, 2013

Cella said:
I've worked in retail for virtually all of my working life (much of in in upscale department stores) and this kind of behavior on the part of the sales associates would not have been tolerated in the least. I can't tell you how many times I've sat someone down in my chair (makeup) and for a variety of reasons thought to myself that they might not buy anything, only to be blown away by the huge purchase they made.

You can never tell everything just by looks and it's to everybody's detriment when people try.

It's good to hear from an experienced high end salesperson, so thanks for that.

Also, I have to say, the eyepatch really makes your look.

Cella · Oct 23, 2013

Kylabelle said:
It's good to hear from an experienced high end salesperson, so thanks for that.

sure. It's not to say it doesn't happen... In fact, I did see this happen once. One guest artist (not sure who she was with) refused to give this one client her full attention because the client looked rather....worn, exhausted...out of place. So this woman was standing there needing help and being ignored by the little snot. I went over and talked with her, got her all fixed up for the benefit dinner she was attending that evening and found out that she's one of the city's most prominent business owners. And a sweetheart of a gal, too.

Also, I have to say, the eyepatch really makes your look.

arrrrgh! Classy, eh?

raburrell · Oct 23, 2013

A good friend works as a salesperson at relatively upscale clothing store - according to her, they are directly and expressly forbidden from confronting someone who they think is shoplifting or otherwise defrauding the store as a matter of employee safety. Basically, if it happens, the store writes it off.

I have no idea how widespread that type of policy is however. And either way, the clerk in this case was egregiously out of line.

Kylabelle · Oct 23, 2013

raburrell said:
A good friend works as a salesperson at relatively upscale clothing store - according to her, they are directly and expressly forbidden from confronting someone who they think is shoplifting or otherwise defrauding the store as a matter of employee safety. Basically, if it happens, the store writes it off.

I have no idea how widespread that type of policy is however. And either way, the clerk in this case was egregiously out of line.

Well, that's two. My attempt at empathy for the clerk's point of view in this situation is sinking fast.

Good riddance, I say.

EdgeOfDark · Oct 23, 2013

Yup

veinglory said:
I had the experience of a saleperson refusing to show me an item while patronizingly explaining it was "very expensive". And that is just because I wasn't dressed like a sufficiently wealthy white person. At least I haven't been dragged to the police station yet.

I guess some people don't realize that not everyone uses the same yuppie dress code to signal their socioeconomic status these days.

Been there, done that!
Life in these United States ...

Yorkist · Oct 23, 2013

raburrell said:
I have no idea how widespread that type of policy is however. And either way, the clerk in this case was egregiously out of line.

It's really typical of expensive stores. They get a tax write-off, too.

Another reason these policies are the norm do is that an overzealous employee can get the business hit with a false imprisonment tort. Whether it's a restaurant bill, a hotel, or plain ol' thievery, businesses cannot legally hold you against your will.

Filigree · Oct 23, 2013

Nice going, Barneys. Now you have a bunch of people who don't want to shop in your stores. There's a relatively new one near me; now I have even less reason to visit it.

dfwtinman · Oct 23, 2013

raburrell said:
A good friend works as a salesperson at relatively upscale clothing store - according to her, they are directly and expressly forbidden from confronting someone who they think is shoplifting or otherwise defrauding the store as a matter of employee safety. Basically, if it happens, the store writes it off.

I have no idea how widespread that type of policy is however. And either way, the clerk in this case was egregiously out of line.

Eh, which store is this? (Holidays are fast approaching, and I don't run very fast anymore).

raburrell · Oct 23, 2013

Yeah, there's a reason I didn't name it :tongue

Ambrosia · Oct 24, 2013

dfwtinman said:
Eh, which store is this? (Holidays are fast approaching, and I don't run very fast anymore).

The sales clerk should be fired, if she hasn't been already. I hope the kid wins his lawsuits.

That said, my problem with blaming the store (and by store I mean "chain" since it appears to be have more than one store) is the owners didn't do it. The owners didn't call the police on the kid because he was a black teen buying an expensive belt. Neither did any of the rest of the sales staff. This was the action of one individual. Why should the rest of the people working at the store and counting on it for a paycheck suffer because of the actions of one employee? Now if it happens that the orders to do such a thing came down from the top, then sure. Stop shopping there. Tell all the world to stop shopping there. But not over one person's actions. That isn't justice.

Lavern08 · Oct 24, 2013

Cella said:
... So this woman was standing there needing help and being ignored by the little snot.

I often dress "down" when I shop at the upscale stores - just to mess with the snooty "associates," and the clerk who is courteous and helpful to me gets a big "thank-you" and surprise when he or she totals up my purchase.

I also make it a point to let his or her supervisor know that they provided excellent customer service.

Alpha Echo · Oct 24, 2013

You really can't ever judge someone by how they look.

My sister-in-law's mother often comes to family gatherings (this is my husband's brother's wife's mother LOL). The first time we hosted Thanksgiving, she was awed because she assumed, based on my husband's appearance (often ripped jeans stained with drywall mud, t-shirts worn thin, old dirty sneakers) that we lived in a trailer park.

It's hilarious to me that she said that to us, but she couldn't believe we actually live in a nice house in nice community.

JimmyB27 · Oct 24, 2013

raburrell said:
A good friend works as a salesperson at relatively upscale clothing store - according to her, they are directly and expressly forbidden from confronting someone who they think is shoplifting or otherwise defrauding the store as a matter of employee safety. Basically, if it happens, the store writes it off.

I have no idea how widespread that type of policy is however. And either way, the clerk in this case was egregiously out of line.

Soooo.....are you saying that I can go nick a load of stuff from an upscale store, and they'll just write it off and I'll get away with it?

raburrell · Oct 24, 2013

JimmyB27 said:
Soooo.....are you saying that I can go nick a load of stuff from an upscale store, and they'll just write it off and I'll get away with it?

I think you need to talk to the tinman. He's a few posts ahead of you :tongue

cornflake · Oct 24, 2013

I believe that's the policy at downmarket stores as well. The workers, except for the security staff (which is the same at the upscale stores, just there the security staff is dressed like shoppers), aren't supposed to confront shoplifters - it's a liability issue.

The dress thing is part of what makes me think this leans much more toward teen than black or anything else. It's NYC - lots and lots of people wander about dressed like crap, many of them very, very wealthy. No one in retail for more than a week doesn't know that. I mean not that you shouldn't know that anyplace, that dress isn't indicative, but it should be proven out pretty quickly if someone works in an upscale store in NY.

ap123 · Oct 24, 2013

cornflake said:
I believe that's the policy at downmarket stores as well. The workers, except for the security staff (which is the same at the upscale stores, just there the security staff is dressed like shoppers), aren't supposed to confront shoplifters - it's a liability issue.

The dress thing is part of what makes me think this leans much more toward teen than black or anything else. It's NYC - lots and lots of people wander about dressed like crap, many of them very, very wealthy. No one in retail for more than a week doesn't know that. I mean not that you shouldn't know that anyplace, that dress isn't indicative, but it should be proven out pretty quickly if someone works in an upscale store in NY.

I disagree about why this escalated to the point that it did.

Yes, teens get hassled in stores, followed, often treated rudely.

Black/latino teens = much, much more.

Yorkist · Oct 24, 2013

ap123 said:
I disagree about why this escalated to the point that it did.

Yes, teens get hassled in stores, followed, often treated rudely.

Black/latino teens = much, much more.

+1

Busted for shopping while Black/ not Oprah

unaccounted for

practical experience, FTW

volitare nequeo

Cella

unaccounted for

Cella

Treguna Makoidees Trecorum SadisDee

unaccounted for

Mildly Disturbing

Cubic Zirconia in the rough

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Grand Duchess

Sit Down, and Shut Up!

I should be writing.

Hoopy frood

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practical experience, FTW

Twitching