How's my meter?

LOG

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I was kind of going for iambic. Italic is what I think is the stressed symbol. Non-italics are...well, not stressed. I tried using some earlier advice and kind of sung out the words and looked for the slurred parts of each word to try and find the non-stressed parts.

Oh great monster of the deep,
diamond-hide, and steel-teeth,
let bloody waters rescind.
 
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Priene

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It's not close to iambic, I'm afraid. The leading stresses in L1 and L2 make it closer to trochaic, though there are multiple departures from that.

The capitals are the stressed syllables in my reading. Some words -- particularly GREAT and OF in L1 -- could be said stressed or unstressed.

OH, GREAT MON-ster OF the DEEP
DIA-mond HIDE and STEEL TEETH
let BLOOD-y WA-ters res-CIND

A tidied up, reasonably trochaic version would be

SULL-en MON-ster OF the DEEP
DIA-mond HIDE and TEETH of STEEL
BLOOD-y WA-ters EBB-ing, LOST
 

Magdalen

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A good dictionary provides the information regarding stress (the relative emphasis given a syllable or word in accordance with a metrical pattern). I often consult one when in doubt as to the correct emphasis for my word choice.
 

Dichroic

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I was kind of going for iambic. Italic is what I think is the stressed symbol. Non-italics are...well, not stressed. I tried using some earlier advice and kind of sung out the words and looked for the slurred parts of each word to try and find the non-stressed parts.

Oh great monster of the deep,
diamond-hide, and steel-teeth,
let bloody waters rescind.

Sorry, but that's really, really not working for me. You can't just impose stresses wherever you want them; you have to have them where they naturally fall, with the way the word is normally pronounced. ("great" is not normally two syllables, neither gre-at nor gray-tuh. It's a homophone for "grate".) I'd write this bit thisaway:

Oh great monster of the deep,
diamond-hide, and steelteeth,
let bloody waters rescind.

As Priene says, not iambic.
 

LOG

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I thought I had the stress right.
This stress stuff makes no sense. I've gotten advice on it from just about everyone in the forums, asked several people with a P.H.D. and I still just can't seem to get it right...
A dictionary is nice and all, but I don't want to open one up every time I try to write poetry, and there will be times when a dictionary simply isn't available...
 

Priene

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I thought I had the stress right.
This stress stuff makes no sense. I've gotten advice on it from just about everyone in the forums, asked several people with a P.H.D. and I still just can't seem to get it right...

Take these two words:

proper
prefer

They're quite similar words, but their stress is different. PROP-er. pre-FER.

Here are some other words with stresses on the first syllable:

thunder
mister
clobber
straighten

Say them together and you'll feel the rhythm.

thunder-mister-clobber-straighten.
THUN-der MIST-er CLOBB-er STRAIGHT-en.

Repeat a few times.

1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and

You can substitute proper for clobber without changing the rhythm at all

thunder-mister-proper-straighten.
THUN-der MIST-er PROP-er STRAIGHT-en.

When you stick in prefer, though, it all becomes choppy

thunder-mister-prefer-straighten.
THUN-der MIST-er pre-FER STRAIGHT-en.

English is a stressed language, and when it comes to metre, we instinctively try to put the stressed syllables on the beat. In this case, you have to do a little jiggle to fit prefer

1 and 2 and a 3 4 and

The unstressed syllables -er and pre- are speeded up, and there's a pause between -FER and STRAIGHT-. Metrical poems have a background beat, and the poet picks words whose stresses it matches

I wandered lonely as a cloud
That floats on high o'er vales and hills

i WAND-ered LONE-ly AS a CLOUD
that FLOATS on HIGH o'er VALES and HILLS

and 1 and 2 and 3 and 4
and 1 and 2 and 3 and 4

Four stresses (ie metrical feet) per line means it's tetrametre. Because each foot goes unstressed-stressed, that makes it iambic.
 

Norman D Gutter

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LOG:

I agree with the analyses and advice given by others in the thread. The method shown by Prienne is a good one to begin studying and understanding meter. Look at individual words; see how you pronounce them in conversation; note which syllable has greater stress. I also suggest you try pronouncing them unnaturally so as to see the difference. In the 'thunder mister prefer straighten' sequence try pronouncing them wrong:

thun DER mist ER PRE fer staight EN

See if that helps. Consider the words 'angel' and 'angelic'. Angel is pronounced AN gel and angelic is pronounced an GEL ic. So if you want to work these words into a poem with iambic meter, you have to get the phrasing right to have them in the right place.

The angel told her she'd give birth.
the AN gel TOLD her SHE'D give BIRTH

Angelic hosts proclaimed his birth
an GEL ic HOSTS pro CLAIMED his BIRTH

Can you see this difference, and hear the meter?

I have noticed that syllables with long vowels tend to take more stress than syllables with short vowels. I've never seen that stated in a poetry textbook, so consider that merely the observation of an amateur practitioner.

Also, the role the word plays in a sentence has a big impact on its stress. The main nouns and verbs (subject and predicate, or it is subject and object? too long since English class) tend to take more stress than pronouns, conjunctions, and prepositions. Modifiers can go either way. This is true for one syllable words. Thus the stress of a word may change depending on its function in a sentence, especially for pronouns. Consider this line from Frost's "The Road Not Taken":

And I, I took the road less traveled by
and I/ i TOOK/ the ROAD/ less TRAV/ eled BY/
iamb/iamb/iamb/iamb/iamb/

The first "I" gets much more stress than the second "I" because of it's role in the sentence.

When stringing words together in a line of iambic meter (or any other meter for that matter), you also have the phenomenon that syllables appear stressed or unstressed not only based on their instrinsic characteristic but also because of adjacent syllables. You have strong stresses and weak stresses; you have strong unstresssed syllables and weak unstressed syllables. Any of these can exhibit their less dominant character when flanked by different syllables. In the Frost line, the second "I" is between a strong "I" and the main verb, "took". "Took" takes more stress therefore, making the second "I" seem weaker and fulfill the function of an unstressed syllable. In the Wordsworth line quoted up-thread:

I wandered lonely as a cloud

the preposition "as" is very weak, and would not take much stress in normal speech. But here it is, with "-ly" on one side and "a" on the other. "a" is about as weak as they come, so "as" will seem stronger. However, "-ly" is a fairly strong unstressed syllable, having a long vowel. Yet, as the second syllable of "lonely" it is somewhat demoted in normal speech. Thus the reader has no trouble slightly promoting "as" to be stressed, making the line feel iambic, if weakly so. This is natural iambic speech. The second of the Wordsworth lines quoted:

That floats on high o'er vales and hills

has no such problems. Every word is a single syllable word, yet every word takes or gives stress according to its use in the sentence, whether its vowel is long or short, and the strength of the syllables that surround it.

I had some more examples, but I think my employer wants me to start earning my money on time. Accursed day job!

Best Regards,
NDG
 

LOG

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A large part of the problem seems to just be a lack of ear for hearing stress.
I don't detect any real difference in pronunciation of a word. To me, the words 'proper thunder mister straighten' have no stress, no part of it sounds any more particular than another to me. It's the same with almost every word I hear. I can tell syllables apart, but not stress within the word.
 

Priene

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Can you hear a difference between the words reefer and refer? They're virtually identical except for stress: REEF-er, re-FER. If you can differentiate between them, you do hear stresses, and it's just a matter of practice.

Try saying the word reefer, but hold on to the last syllable indefinitely. It turns into a very long refer.

Or try saying this quickly

infer refer prefer thunder

Do you tend to pronounce thunder oddly?
 
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Norman D Gutter

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A large part of the problem seems to just be a lack of ear for hearing stress.
I don't detect any real difference in pronunciation of a word. To me, the words 'proper thunder mister straighten' have no stress, no part of it sounds any more particular than another to me. It's the same with almost every word I hear. I can tell syllables apart, but not stress within the word.
emphasis added


If what you say is remotely true (and you are not putting us on about all of this or you're not an older generation computer-generated voice, think: HOW A BOUT A NICE GAME OF CHESS), then you have two choices.

1. Forget writing in meter. You apparently have a learning disability that prevents you from doing so.

2. Quit stalling (or worse, feeling sorry for yourself) and start intensely studying meter, perhaps even with a language or voice coach in real life. Start focusing on individual, multi-syllable words. Say them over and over out loud, both the right way and the wrong way, until you understand which syllable is stressed and which isn't. When you can tell the stresses in the syllables in individual words, try the same for simple sentences, such as: "Jack and Jill went up the hill" or "Water, water everywhere and not a drop to drink." From what you say of where you are now, you might plan on taking a couple of years to do this, then report back to us with a self-assessment of where you stand.

NDG
 

Priene

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Not really, no.

I pronounce it, 'Thun-dur.'

Then I concur with Norman. Either talk to someone face to face, or give up writing with metre.
 

Dichroic

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Not really, no.

I pronounce it, 'Thun-dur.'

I bet you don't - not unless other people are always telling you that you talk funny. (Or unless you are a native speaker of a tonal language just learning English, because those people do tend to have trouble saying stresses in untoned languages.)

I'd skip the Wordsworth and recite nursey rhymes instead, because stresses are much more obvious in those.

MA-ry HAD a LIT-tle LAMB, LIT-tle LAMB, LIT-tle LAMB,
Its FLEECE was WHITE as SNOW.

And remember, we are talking subtle stresses, not major differences.

Another way is to take a simple sentence and change the emphasis around.

WHO is he? means 'I didn't hear you - who did you say he is?'
who IS he? means 'There's something odd about him'.
who is HE? means, 'I'm not asking about her, I'm asking about him, that guy over there.

Again, I'd bet you can distinguish those stresses - it might be worth asking someone else to say those three to you, and see if you can tel the difference.
 

Magdalen

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If, as you say, you lack the ability to distinguish or infer the accentual emphasis of syllables, Norman and Priene have tried to politely steer you towards a solution. They are wise and kind, so please take their advice, because the answer to your OP is: It needs work.
 
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Izz

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(Or unless you are a native speaker of a tonal language just learning English, because those people do tend to have trouble saying stresses in untoned languages.)
I was also going to ask if you have a hearing problem of some description.

Either that or what Di mentioned could be possible explanations for the problem you say you're having (and i'm not talking tone deafness, because apparently that doesn't affect hearing stresses in spoken language).

If neither of those, LOG, then perhaps you're not actually listening to yourself or others speak. Do you hear everybody as a droning monotone? How do you ask a question (again, like Di gave examples of) in a way to get your point across--as in, where does the emphasis go? In other conversation, where do you place emphasis to make sure your point is clear, or that the important aspect of a subject is singled out.

No, I went to the MALL today.
No, I went to the mall TODAY.

Both have quite different meanings depending on what word is emphasized.
 
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Dichroic

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Back to basics it is.

Nursery rhymes are good because that sing-song quality and the very strong rhythm are exactly why they're so appealing to little kids. That's why I tend to recommend them to people who have trouble hearing stresses.
 

Tate

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I know how you feel. I don't get meter at all either and usually when I talk I can't hear the stress on any words unless I'm super pissed. Like that example with reefer and refer I wouldn't have thought that I was stressing the ree part. I'd just see "ok, long E means reefer, short e means refer" It just takes practice. I'm still not good at it so I generally don't write in meter.
 

LOG

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I think I'm around the point where I'll just write down something that sounds sort of rhyming, and then tell anyone who says its bad or not right to go stuff themselves. (Unless it's a member of these boards, cause I respect ya'll. Or my professors, in which case I shall humby agree, accompanied by other groveling gestures of appeasement. I'm still sitting at a 3.56, so every little bit helps.)
 

kdbeaar

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I don't usually visit the Poetry board, although I write a lot of rhyming meter...over in Children's. But I must say, what a fantastic collection of wonderfully helpful advice. For so many people to take this much time to offer such detailed and informative mini-lessons...what a lovely thing!
 

LOG

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I don't usually visit the Poetry board, although I write a lot of rhyming meter...over in Children's. But I must say, what a fantastic collection of wonderfully helpful advice. For so many people to take this much time to offer such detailed and informative mini-lessons...what a lovely thing!
It is. I am unworthy of so much effort.