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Why I Won't Beta Read Your Novel

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JoBird

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Actually Maryn, after reading your original post in this thread I am 100% certain I wouldn't want you touching my novel with a 10-foot pole.

As I believe you put it in that post: "I don't like you. This can happen even if I've never interacted with you. I've observed you here at AW, and I didn't like what I saw. Bummer, huh? This is what your mom meant when she said, "What goes around, comes around."

Cheers.

I don't know if this post is intentionally missing the point of this thread or not.

But for what it's worth, ScribesShade, I think you've probably misjudged Maryn and the point of this thread. Just my two cent opinion, of course.
 
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WildScribe

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I was going to jump on the dogpile, but since everything I want to say has been said...

:popcorn:
 

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In all fairness, ScribesShade, if you lash out at a hypothetical list of possibilities that has nothing to do with you personally, what do you do when you get negative feedback on your work?
In all fairness to ScribesShade, perhaps that list does have something to do with him/her personally.

I mean, I've seen people make posts to the effect of "If a person has X, Y, and Z characteristics, they are disgusting, sickening, horrible, and really shouldn't even be allowed to exist, let alone go out in public where I might have to look at them." If I, in fact, have X, Y, and Z characteristics, whether the original poster knows that or not, I'm going to take their post personally (and probably put them on my ignore list).

So, it's possible that ScribesShade is a new member who has made no effort to help others, and is demanding free help, and has zero knowledge of the craft, and whose book is wholly unedited first draft, and who writes in a genre Maryn doesn't read, and is an offensive asshat, and is the polar opposite of Maryn in all respects, and has not put any of his/her work up for others to read, and is just looking for egoboo. Of course, Maryn couldn't have known that, since she made her OP long before ScribesShade joined AW, but if ScribesShade really does have all those characteristics, then she/he and Maryn would certainly not be a good author-beta match.
 
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Haggis

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That's an interesting approach. I usually don't critique using a ten-foot pole. How does that method work, exactly?
10footpole.jpg
 

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It takes me at least two weeks to beta-read a book. That's reading it from start to finish, correcting every error in spelling, punctuation, grammar, and sentence structure that I find. Then I think about the book and, often, read it again. Then I write a 300 - 3000 word commentary on characterisation, dialogue, description, setting, factual correctness, plot twists, scene structure, story structure, tension, resolution, character arcs, etc. Of the last two books I've agreed to beta-read, one took me about six hours; the other has taken me 20 hours and I've still got a ways to go.

In the last 2 weeks, 28 people have put up beta requests. Obviously I can't do all 28. I have to give up my nights and weekends at home just to do one. How am I going to pick one out of the 28? As Maryn said: a book that's in the genre I read. A book that has some aspect that interests me. A book that I think I can be of use to the author with. And an author who I think I can work productively with.

The first three criteria are out of the author's control. The last one is wholly within their control. That's Maryn's point, I think.
 

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Thanks, guys! :dons flame-proof mail: :picks up poles: :drops pole on toe: :curses whoever thought chain mail was suitable toe protection:
 

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Actually Maryn, after reading your original post in this thread I am 100% certain I wouldn't want you touching my novel with a 10-foot pole.

As I believe you put it in that post: "I don't like you. This can happen even if I've never interacted with you. I've observed you here at AW, and I didn't like what I saw. Bummer, huh? This is what your mom meant when she said, "What goes around, comes around."

Cheers.

You might want to reconsider your participation on this site.

I certainly am.
 

calieber

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I have to wonder how exactly ScribesShade thought that was a useful contribution to the discussion.
 

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It looks like ScribesShade won't be rejoining us, so we'll never know.

I suppose it's all a reminder that our words are not always interpreted in the way we intend them to be, and that what one person views with approbation another person will see as a personal insult. You only have to hop down to the Politics subforum to see that in action!
 

CassandraW

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You know, I saw the ban coming, but deep down inside, I was really hoping for a flounce.

:e2bummed:
 

Maryn

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What saddens me is that the first post which so insulted ScribesShade (though it was written nearly a year and a half before he joined) told him exactly what to do in order to get beta readers who would no doubt improve the manuscript, regardless of its present quality. In choosing to take offense, he slammed and locked doors which would have benefited him if they remained open.

Maryn, with a sigh
 

CassandraW

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What saddens me is that the first post which so insulted ScribesShade (though it was written nearly a year and a half before he joined) told him exactly what to do in order to get beta readers who would no doubt improve the manuscript, regardless of its present quality. In choosing to take offense, he slammed and locked doors which would have benefited him if they remained open.

Maryn, with a sigh


Yes, it's a loss for him.

On the other hand, your post likely saved at least one of us from a very unpleasant beta experience. I can't think he would react well to even the gentlest critique.

*salutes Maryn*



ETA:

I'm very glad you started this thread. Prior to joining AW, all of my critiquing experiences were with people I knew personally, which is quite different. It's very useful to know some of the stuff that might turn off a beta here on AW. Some of it should be obvious -- e.g., don't call your beta an asshole :) . But some of it is less obvious -- e.g., don't say "Enjoy!" :D I'll be a better beta or beta-ee as a result of this thread.
 
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kkbe

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Has ScribeShade been banned?

I don't understand why he chose to post that message. Clearly, it wasn't one of his smarter moves and he's been taken to task for it, summarily thrashed up, down and sideways, and rightly so. It was a personal attack, unwarranted and unwise.

Having said that, though. . .

I've screwed up more than once on AW. I posted a jerk comment on the Starbucks thread. I was snarky with comments relative to a thread I started. I've been self-centered and quick to judge and quick to fall on my sword because I felt hurt when people told me the truth about myself.

I chalk some of that up to having really bad days and some to lack of sleep, some to really thin skin and some to sheer stupidity. I fucked up. It seems like the only difference between me and ScribeShade is I apologized, and I've vowed to do better. If this guy comes back and apologizes, would Aye-dubbers give him another chance? Or is he shit out of luck, because he fucked up once? And with Maryn, who is smart and wise and every other damn thing and oh, yeah, she just happens to be a well-respected and extremely astute AW moderator. Or does everybody know something about this guy that I don't know, because I'll be the first to admit, I can be dense. . .

I'm just saying, the guy's new. Maybe he was having a really shitty day.
 

bearilou

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Has ScribeShade been banned?

I don't understand why he chose to post that message. Clearly, it wasn't one of his smarter moves and he's been taken to task for it, summarily thrashed up, down and sideways, and rightly so. It was a personal attack, unwarranted and unwise.

Having said that, though. . .

I've screwed up more than once on AW. I posted a jerk comment on the Starbucks thread. I was snarky with comments relative to a thread I started. I've been self-centered and quick to judge and quick to fall on my sword because I felt hurt when people told me the truth about myself.

I chalk some of that up to having really bad days and some to lack of sleep, some to really thin skin and some to sheer stupidity. I fucked up. It seems like the only difference between me and ScribeShade is I apologized, and I've vowed to do better. If this guy comes back and apologizes, would Aye-dubbers give him another chance? Or is he shit out of luck, because he fucked up once? And with Maryn, who is smart and wise and every other damn thing and oh, yeah, she just happens to be a well-respected and extremely astute AW moderator. Or does everybody know something about this guy that I don't know, because I'll be the first to admit, I can be dense. . .

I'm just saying, the guy's new. Maybe he was having a really shitty day.

The problem with armchair quarterbacking this incident is that most of us aren't privvy to the behind the scenes goings ons. It could very well be that one of the mods took him aside in private and he continued with the aggressive attitude. Most of us will never know since we never see that part of what goes on with the Mysterious and Mystical Mods.

I'm sure if he is allowed to come back most of us would go meh and continue on our way treating him with the same attitude he would treat others under the New and Improved brand. AW can be a forgiving lot, but usually only after a Mea Culpa has been given.

And considering a lot of the attitudes on this board and how down right nasty they can get from resident members and we never see them booted, I would think it'd have to be Pretty Damn Bad for Mac to show someone the door.

...I could be wrong, though. I have been before. :/
 

CaoPaux

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The problem with armchair quarterbacking this incident is that most of us aren't privvy to the behind the scenes goings ons. It could very well be that one of the mods took him aside in private and he continued with the aggressive attitude.
This. Move along folks, nothin' more to see here.
 

CassandraW

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FYI, he wasn't banned immediately. When I signed off last night, he hadn't been banned. I'd bet my avatar that there was some additional behind the scenes ass-holery here. (And I'm very fond of my avatar.) :)

ETA: Sorry -- I cross-posted with CaoPaux.
 

Amadan

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I'm just saying, the guy's new. Maybe he was having a really shitty day.


I don't think people usually get banned for one asshole comment. Though granted, jumping into a thread out of the blue with an unprovoked personal attack on a mod is a pretty good way to find out.

I would suspect, though, that more stuff happened out of the public eye.
 

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The problem with armchair quarterbacking this incident is that most of us aren't privvy to the behind the scenes goings ons.

Exactly. There's a great deal that goes on in the background in terms of Rep comments and PMs, and even emails.

A fairly gentle PM reminding a member that courtesy is expected, and noting the availability of the Report post button
report.gif
, and pointing out that members can always PM MacAllister about problems with a Mod, that is met with a response referring to censorship and first amendment rights and the Constitution and an additional hostile reference to another member, is not going end well.

For general reference, it's not OK to second guess mod decisions in public. Use a PM. You can always PM MacAllister the board owner if you have concerns. She takes them very seriously.
 
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kkbe

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Amadan: I would suspect, though, that more stuff happened out of the public eye.
Ahh, to be a fly on that poo-spattered wall. . .

AW Admin: For general reference, it's not OK to second guess mod decisions in public. Use a PM. You can always PM MacAllister the board owner if you have concerns. She takes them very seriously.
On second thought. . .
 
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