The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

Canada James · Nov 1, 2005

Dhewco said:
You miss the point Mr. CJ...publishing nonsense is a business practice for PA. ... But substandard writing in not an exception and pointing out the quality of their stated 'best' fits in very well with this board.

And if the sole objective of the board was to point out PA's failings at any cost, you'd be right.

But the second objective is to create a forum where PA authors will feel welcome when they come to realize just what they've signed onto.

You nullify objective #2 when you openly ridicule a person's writing, especially when it is completely unnecessary to do so.

That's my opinion. I got your points. Hopefully you got mine.

Cj

Canada James · Nov 1, 2005

Christine N. said:
The other thing that comes up is that if if someone is going to bandy about the title "Author", "Published author" and the like, one had better be willing to have their work put up to public scrutiny.

Agreed. Just not in *this* thread.

Cj

roach · Nov 1, 2005

rekirts said:
Quote:
Why? Because Ingram/Lightning Source updates their returnable listing for books already in print only once per month.
Is this true or is it just another PA smokescreen? Does anybody know?

An additional question: are Ingram/LSI related in any way? I thought the one had nothing to do with the other.

James D. Macdonald · Nov 1, 2005

People who write badly are unable to see that it is bad.

If they could see it, they'd fix it, wouldn't they?

That's tougher than noticing that you didn't hit the ball, or that everyone else crossed the finish line ahead of you.

SC Harrison · Nov 1, 2005

SeanDSchaffer said:
I believe I did the same thing a few times myself. Especially to Steve. I offer my apologies as well.

Sean, I know how much the Wyvernia Chronicles meant to you, and I know how hard it was for you to get where you are today. If you ever did something to me that bothers you, be at peace, my brother. I'm just glad you're writing again.

James D. Macdonald · Nov 1, 2005

roach said:
An additional question: are Ingram/LSI related in any way? I thought the one had nothing to do with the other.

Ingram owns Lightning Source.

roach · Nov 1, 2005

James D. Macdonald said:
Ingram owns Lightning Source.

Ah, thank you.

*ponders making a phone call tomorrow*

SeanDSchaffer · Nov 1, 2005

SC Harrison said:
Sean, I know how much the Wyvernia Chronicles meant to you, and I know how hard it was for you to get where you are today. If you ever did something to me that bothers you, be at peace, my brother. I'm just glad you're writing again.

I appreciate that, Steve. Thank you for your kindness.

:Sun:

mdin · Nov 1, 2005

The FBI's new website may be a new resource to complain, especially for those whose books are being sold after you've had your rights returned.

http://www.lookstoogoodtobetrue.com/file.htm

If you click the ic3 link, you'll see you can complain about several things, including intellectual property theft. It can't hurt, I suppose.

aruna · Nov 2, 2005

Here's a quote from White Raven on the PAMB:

The answer kept coming back from the wholesaler. We want a 55% discount and we want to be able to return the book within 90 days for a full refund. Effective October 1st, PA begins to lift one of the obstacles with their new return policy; however, I am not sure they are going to go for the 55% discount. Right now, they allow only a 40% discount to libraries, and I believe bookstores. That they would reduce their profit per book by another 15% might be a little much, since they are publishing the book for nothing and have to make their profit on the back end.

(My highlighting)

Nobody has commented on this as of now (probably never will). That bit on having to make the profit on the back end is illuminating. It shows our friend is thinking....

James D. Macdonald · Nov 2, 2005

Ah, yes ... that thread is about getting books into truck stops.

A PA author says:

I have been unable to get any answers from either Barjan or PA, so am still in the dark. The only response I received from PA was to tell Barjan to talk to Ingrams, so it all sounds kind of like a anybody everybody, somebody, and nobody story.

I can tell you the answer: Your book won't get into truck stops.

Why not? First, that's the mass market/ID system. PA doesn't have anyone who understands how to place a book there. (Witness their answer, to have Barjan talk to Ingram -- that means PA doesn't have a clue. Real publishers have people who specialize in dealing with the IDs.) Second, your book needs to be strippable. It isn't. Third, your book needs to be rack sized. It isn't. Fourth, your book needs to have a long discount. It doesn't have one.

So, don't look for your book in any truck stops. It won't be there.

Christine N. · Nov 2, 2005

Yeah, I'd be interested to see what Ingram says about that. Someone should send them a screen shot of Infohelmet's answer about that. Especially the part where they say that "many of our titles are already returnable from the day we made the announcement"

Since WE know that Bonnie called, and that's a flat-out LIE. Wasn't she told, mid-month and just recently that NO PA titles were returnable yet?

James D. Macdonald · Nov 2, 2005

Christine N. said:
"many of our titles are already returnable from the day we made the announcement"

It all depends on what they mean by "many."

It could be that they're talking about that bare handful of "Independence Books," which had some sort of highly-restricted returns plan, hedged about with so many terms and conditions as to be useless.

Sparhawk · Nov 2, 2005

Jean Marie said:
Hiya Sparhawk

Can you take a moment to explain how it is PA revolutionized returnablity? Whenever I'm not satisfied w/ a product, I take it back, my money is returned, etc. For example; when I bought a book at a bookstore-the kind w/ shelves and things-you know, stuff you find in a bookstore...sorry. I brought the book back 'cause I didn't like it. And ya know what? They took it back!!!!! Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! Returnable! So, how can PA lay claim to something that's already in place?? It's a little like saying Columbus discovered America...

I knew I was in deep doo doo when shortly after I signed that dreaded poc w/ the criminals, I walked into Borders (not the one where my book is) and asked if they stocked books printed by PA. (at the time, I used the other 'p' word, now I know better) And that is when I caught PeeAnts in their first lie. The guy told me nope, looked it up and said, no way ma'am, not happening. You all know that sinking feeling.

I knew I was in deep doo doo when I kept heearing the non returnable, poor discount vanity press mantra from just about every bookstore I visited when my book came out. I had a few booksigning at Barnes And noble and dropped over $500.00 to provide the books. I still have the box and most of the books. B&N purchased the other books for the other two authors. Talk about feeling out of your league.

My doo doo became deeper when Borders actually wanted to stock my book and have me actually attend and participate in several events. But then the whole price issue popped up again. When I begged PA for a break things quickly spiraled to hell in a hand basket. Luckily I had the good people of AW for support as I discussed the harassment charges with the cops. I think with Publish America, they've adopted the "Washington DC" policy. I.E. if you tell a lie long enough and to enough people eventually it will be accepted as truth.

Beebomb, I hope you realize my reply was toungue in cheek posing as the all powerful PAvidian Author Support. If you thought I was in any way jumping ugly with you personally, let me offer you my sincerest apologies, that was not my intention.

Jean Marie · Nov 2, 2005

James D. Macdonald said:
Steve, Jean Marie, I mentioned/talked to both of you while you were still on the PA board, right here in this thread.
If I offended you, please accept my apologies.
[UPDATE:] Here's one such post: http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=182063&postcount=19152

Hey, Jim, I love you too

I clicked on the link and sped read. Anything you said was never and is never mean spirited. You state the facts, others run smear campaigns for no worthy end (no one on this board) and you've helped many aspiring authors-me included. You're one of the most generous and amazing guys I know-next to Sparhawk

A lot of things were said all the way around and I've apologized for my comments. And, Jim, I hope you were included in that. The sad part is that's what PA does to people. Some never get over what's happened to them and carry their bitterness, lashing out whenever they can; unable to forgive. Again, not anyone on this board. Those individuals I feel sorry for.

Okay, Jim, Steve and Sean: group hug

BeeBomb · Nov 2, 2005

Sparhawk Darlin'

Ah, Darlin', I knew your comment was tongue in cheek. You won't see this BeeBomb gittin' feathers ruffled or going away in a pout to chew my bubble gum in private. I've read too many of your posts to know how you feel about PublishAmerica.

Now, Sweet Thing, you just go on and do your thing...write to your heart's content and stick it to them where the sun doesn't shine!

BeeBomb

momwrites · Nov 2, 2005

I need to jump in here...

For those who don't me; I got scammed as well and I do have to say the one thing that irks me more than anything is when other people tell me I should have known better or "But you didn't have to pay for anything." My DH keeps bringing up his point that if all someone wants to do is FEEL a book in their hands and tell everyone they are a "published" author, then nobody gets hurt, right?

Wrong. for the three-quarters of authors that are like the above, more power to you, BUT for the rest of us who want to make a living at writing, it toughens more the already tough standards for traditional publishing, IMHO. Not only that, but it labels us as PAvidians with people saying we know as much about writing as a cat knows about how to bark. Now, don't get me wrong, there are some that don't have a clue and think they should be on the high road to riches, because they "Published a book." It takes time; it takes patience (as my DH keeps telling me, even though I have been waiting close to eight years to have my first book that I self-published, published the traditional way, you know, edited, marketed, promoted, distributed...and am already writing my fifth book and my YA trilogy is getting published in 2007 by Millennial Press) Whew~ Ok, sorry about that bit of rambling...

Anyway, as I was saying...PA puts a stain on any resume...it really does, because some of the editors I have approached found out I published a book with PA and almost immediately rejected me. "Oh, she's one of THOSE authors." It hurts and I don't know how to get my rights back (you would think if a book sold 0 books that they wouldn't want it anymore...

but whatever...

If most of the PA'ers would stop kidding themselves and really ask the hard questions, most of them would be here by now...

BeeBomb · Nov 2, 2005

Momwrites, we could :Lecture:

till the cows come home to those PublishAmerica authors whose penchant for being on the PAMB is all they live for...it's an addiction. However, if you read between the lines on some of the messages, you will see they have already learned what PublishAmerica is all about. Subtle messages are hidden within answers to those who have been duped by PublishAmerica. Some of the PA'ers stay on the board, until they are banned, to relay messages to those who have been banned, letting us in on what is happening. Believe me, there are tons of PublishAmerica authors who know whats going on but stay to get email addresses from the newbies! They. then in turn, pass along data. PublishAmerica may think they have happy authors, but they don't have a clue!!!

Yes, you are right about the strain PublishAmerica puts on the passionate writer, the writer whose life blood is spilled with pen and paper. It is exteremly hard to overcome the concrete barricade of being published by PublishAmerica. Hang in there, Momwrites, together...we can be the author we dream of being. WE CAN DO THIS!

BeeBomb

LloydBrown · Nov 2, 2005

BeeBomb said:
Momwrites, we could till the cows come home to those PublishAmerica authors whose penchant for being on the PAMB is all they live for...it's an addiction. However, if you read between the lines on some of the messages, you will see they have already learned what PublishAmerica is all about.

The worst ones are the ones that Uncle Jim describes as "playing the Published Author Role-Playing Game" (which I might actually design one day, just for fun). PA does fulfill their needs: they need a book in their hand, they need a company that they can refer to as their "publisher", and they need at least the promise of a royalty check (even if they don't actually get one or if it's reduced by fraud).

These people are extremely reluctant to see any vision of the world other than their own.

momwrites · Nov 2, 2005

BeeBomb said:
Momwrites, we could till the cows come home to those PublishAmerica authors whose penchant for being on the PAMB is all they live for...it's an addiction. However, if you read between the lines on some of the messages, you will see they have already learned what PublishAmerica is all about. Subtle messages are hidden within answers to those who have been duped by PublishAmerica. Some of the PA'ers stay on the board, until they are banned, to relay messages to those who have been banned, letting us in on what is happening. Believe me, there are tons of PublishAmerica authors who know whats going on but stay to get email addresses from the newbies! They. then in turn, pass along data. PublishAmerica may think they have happy authors, but they don't have a clue!!!

BeeBomb

You are right, BeeBomb. I have noticed that some do see what is going on, and its true, you have to be very careful what you write on those boards or you're history and then the slamming begins. I haven't been banned, yet, but that is because I haven't said my .02 cents and am trying to NOT rock the boat, so to speak, in order to one day get my rights back, hopefully before the seven years is up, which is another 4 years, 9 months...yes, I am counting down. I'm just scratching my head as to WHY they won't release the rights to me. :Huh:

BeeBomb · Nov 2, 2005

Momwrites, if you don't get back your rights, it's because PublishAmerica would have to admit they did something wrong and wag their tails under their behinds because their happy authors aren't as happy as they let on. They would wind up with egg on their faces. Too many authors getting their rights back would show other authors the route to go.

Even those authors whose rights have been reverted are still hanging in limbo. PublishAmerica, as long as they can get a penny (notice we don't get all our royalties...it goes to pad their bank accounts,) won't relinquish everything until the contract runs out. Guess what? Even then, the contract we signed will still be a yoke around our necks and they will be pulling on the reins. One of these days, the yoke will be on the 'jokers' and they will lose everything they have amassed. Remember, it takes 10 years to actually become on solid footing in any business...one of them will slip up...then the they will wonder where they went wrong. The IRS will soon discover their hideyholes! Won't be too soon for me.

BeeBomb

priceless1 · Nov 2, 2005

From the PA icon: Why? Because Ingram/Lightning Source updates their returnable listing for books already in print only once per month.

To which rekirts asked:

rekirts said:
Is this true or is it just another PA smokescreen? Does anybody know?

Publishers who list their titles with Ingram have a buyer. It's true that LSI does the footwork for PODs who choose to utilize their "services." That's one of the reasons why LSI charges far above the going rate for printing a title. But one should remember that PA claimed to be personally dealing with Ingram during the POD/Ingram fiasco last year. This is consistent with having a buyer. All it takes is a call or email to your buyer to change the disposition of any title. It takes very little time.

A company is in business to sell their product and will do everything to initiate policies that will expedite that result. That they are dragging their feet with this return policy suggests that this is not where they make their money.

Another thing to consider are the actual terms of their return policy. Is it a standard return policy or have they imposed terms so stringent that bookstores will continue to decline to carry PA books? If it's the latter, then the logical question is, why is PA is bothering to institute a return policy at all? Could it be window dressing to quiet their thousands of happy authors?

aruna · Nov 2, 2005

While browsing on this thread I came across this terrible PA story:
http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=115273&postcount=10019

the story was so awful, with the PA author fearing destitution and homelessness, having invested $54000 in promoting his PA book, that I mailed him to ask if he is OK.
I received the following reply:

Thanks for your note.

Yes, I am fine. I found a new job etc and have begun
rebuilding my life though I did end up filing for
bankruptcy protection.

Unfortunately while still in the "honeymoon" period
with PA I submitted a second book which they accepted.
It was released in September of this year.

I have not purchased any copies and am doing extremely
little to promote.

Maybe one day I will have my rights back and will be
able to edit both books into one and find a "real"
publisher.

Again, thanks for your note of concern.

Peace,
Larry~

underthecity · Nov 2, 2005

why is PA is bothering to institute a return policy at all? Could it be window dressing to quiet their thousands of happy authors?

Or is it merely a short-term attempt to boost their low sales caused by sites like this one? After all, they have a helicopter to pay for (an important thing for every publishing company to have).

allen

Sassenach · Nov 2, 2005

Jean Marie said:
. The sad part is that's what PA does to people. Some never get over what's happened to them and carry their bitterness, lashing out whenever they can; unable to forgive.

Bee Bomb said:

Yes, you are right about the strain PublishAmerica puts on the passionate writer, the writer whose life blood is spilled with pen and paper. It is exteremly hard to overcome the concrete barricade of being published by PublishAmerica. Hang in there, Momwrites, together...we can be the author we dream of being. WE CAN DO THIS!

This sounds like more of the Author Role-Playing Game to me. As Stephen King writes eloquently about in On Writing, it's important to take the work seriously, but not yourself. Being a professional writer means being willing to accept that frequent rejection is part of the business.

I'm for getting mad and even, but not for making being scammed your identity.

Click to expand...

The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

Take off!

Take off!

annoyed and annoying

Your Genial Uncle

Dances With Hamsters

Your Genial Uncle

annoyed and annoying

SeanDSchaffer

The late, the great XThe NavigatorX

On a wing and a prayer

Your Genial Uncle

haz a shiny new book cover

Your Genial Uncle

Jenna's Cabana Boy

calm waters ahead

Queen of 80's Music

Queen of 80's Music

On a wing and a prayer

Finestkind

5 W's & an H