Salvatore Publishing

This thread doesn't need to be deleted. At the moment, it is an open discussion concerning a publishing company who chose to solicit submissions on the AW board. aka eraser did not accuse anyone of being affiliated with PA; it's just that the business models are similar and he did say that Salvatore was more upfront with their practices.

There have been no accusations. This is a discussion.

Questioning the company's practices and asking for clarification isn't slighting it.

"I feel obliged to note that at first glance this company appears to be a more upfront version of Publish America."

I don't want to get in the middle of anything but, rightly or wrongly, the above quote is damning. While I appreciate that AKA was issuing a warning to members, I feel that PA should not have been mentioned by name.

Just in case anyone is wondering -- no, I don't know a darned thing more about Salvatore Publishing than the rest of you, but it seems many of us are too eager to jump on the damning bandwagon.

SteveS said:

Here's an example: If you post a story here, and I give the following critique:
'This is a lot like JK Rowling's second book...', I suspect that you would feel I'm implying you're a plagiarist; not nice, is it, when you've done nothing wrong?

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If I write a book about a misunderstood teenager finding out he has magic and going to a magic school, that would be unoriginal. However, it would only become plagiarism if I copied J. K. Rowling's work. You can't plagiarize an idea. My story could have been inspired by Rowling, for instance, or could have been written as a deliberate homage to her work. I've heard that The Sword of Shannara is a lot like The Lord of the Rings; doesn't mean Terry Brooks is a plagiarist.

A story can be unoriginal and derivative without being outright plagiarism.

*sigh*

Steve, the unfortunate problem that I'm having with this discussion is that I'm getting a 'the lady doth protest too much' feeling here. You have a similar business model to PA. So do lots of other small publishers. Although your site does mention that Salvatore is a POD company, that information is not clear on your homepage. The distribution model touted on your submissions page is based around author orders, which you offer substantial discounts for. What you have taken as some sort of tarring with the same brush accusation is actually a fairly clear summation of what information can be gathered from the information on your publishing company's website.

*shrug*

Perhaps this needs to be addressed on your end and clarified upon your website. These boards stand as a service to the writers, not the publishers. These threads are intended for open and fair discussion about publishers no matter who they might be. Instead of being convinced that someone is out to get you, you could serve your cause and our purposes better if you endeavored to show us how signing with your company would be a benefit to a writer who is seeking nothing more than a POD run for their work.

The fact is, PA's business model works. This has not escaped other self/vanity/subsidy/co/publishers who have borrowed aspects of it. Most of the disdain with which PA is regarded is because it insists on calling itself a car when, upon closer inspection, it is seen to be a tricked-out bicycle.

My comparison, as I tried to make clear, was with the business model. I was not trying to imply that your company is a PA clone in all respects. Hence my use of the term "upfront," indicating honest intent.

Yours appears to be a well-meaning start-up. But good intentions shouldn't preclude scrutiny.

SteveS said:

Very true. But the point I was trying to make with my (admittedly poor) analogy is this: the merest suggestion of wrong-doing is often enough to cast major doubt on an individual or an organisation; no matter that the suggestion/comparison is erronoeus, the damage is done.

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Mentioning the similarities between a new story and J. K. Rowling's second book does not equal "cast[ing] major doubt" on the author of the story. People don't toss the plagiarism accusation around lightly here, and a few similarities are nowhere near enough to "damage" anyone, especially a new author. Many people start out writing derivative stuff. In fact, knowing what's original and what isn't may help the author realize that there is a problem in the story and that his or her work can be improved.

On the other hand, saying nothing for fear of the author's feelings being hurt, or the author turning the merest mention of similarities into an accusation of plagiarism, is unlikely to help anyone, including the author.

The analogy applies to publishers as well.

Queen of Swords said:

Mentioning the similarities between a new story and J. K. Rowling's second book does not equal "cast[ing] major doubt" on the author of the story. People don't toss the plagiarism accusation around lightly here, and a few similarities are nowhere near enough to "damage" anyone, especially a new author. Many people start out writing derivative stuff. In fact, knowing what's original and what isn't may help the author realize that there is a problem in the story and that his or her work can be improved.

On the other hand, saying nothing for fear of the author's feelings being hurt, or the author turning the merest mention of similarities into an accusation of plagiarism, is unlikely to help anyone, including the author.

The analogy applies to publishers as well.

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I should point out that the last time a small press was compared to PA they came here and were violently denying it in many posts. Eventually people did back off the comparision.

It's a thread-burner, that's for sure!

mscelina said:

You have a similar business model to PA. So do lots of other small publishers.

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Been following this thread all morning . . . and I kinda have to admit that I'm feeling a little like Carmy upthread. Not wanting to step on any toes, or call anyone out (mscelina, my quoting you isn't directing anything your way - it's just that particular bit sums up a point I'd like to attempt to make).

I think Steve is objecting not to being scrutinized as a new publishing company, but to being lumped in from the get-go with PublishAmerica - who is, as explained by this very forum, Evil Evil Evil. Steve doesn't want to be viewed as Evil. Especially when lots of other publishers employ a similar business model to PA, and are not called out on this board or elsewhere as being like PA.

Yes, it's important that authors are made aware of what they're getting into when they approach any publisher. And yes, this particular business model isn't the best choice for some writers. But honestly - I visited the Salvatore site, and I don't see anything resembling the fervor and outright lies plastered all over PA's site. Salvatore isn't promising to crap on your dreams and pretend they're giving you diamond bracelets, like PA does.

Isn't that why we hate PA? It's fine to be practical regarding Salvatore's approach - and like aka said, it is quite clear on their website what they will and will not do for you. So that means, in the eyes of most writers who visit this forum looking for the truth about publishers, Salvatore is NOT like PA.

I hope this makes sense. Oh - and also, like Carmy, I've got nothing to do with Salvatore. I've only just heard of them today.

Steve, unfortunately you are the only person who thinks Salvatore has been compared to PA. I certainly don't. At first glance, SP doesn't appear to be anything like PA.

You must have missed a few posts as well before you posted your last comment.

I don't think it's just opinions. If someone says "PA operates in X, Y and Z ways, and Salvatore Publishing also operates in X, Y and Z ways", that seems to go beyond mere opinion to me.

And of course, you're free to show how your company is different from the notorious PA.

SteveS said:

As far as I'm aware, the release form is basically giving us permission to view the manuscript. .

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I've never had to sign a release form to allow publishers to look at my manuscripts.

And Steve, the posts didn't say you have any connection with PA - it was simply pointed out that you seem to have a similar business model in place. As someone else has pointed out, PA's business model WORKS - for them. Not so much for the authors. No one is saying you are connected to PA at all. They're simply saying, hmmmm...another new publisher who's got some questions to answer.

Getting a book printed is not even half the battle. We can all do that ourselves through Lulu. So, you must convince writers of why they will be better off to go with your company. What can you offer them that Lulu can't? How can you get their books into the hands of readers?

Will your website be your only method of distribution? Distribution channels are the most important thing for a publisher. Who do you see as the target market for your books, and how will you reach those readers? How will you draw readers in to your website? (It's not just a case of slapping a website up, announcing BOOKS FOR SALE!, and having readers storm the gates, eager to buy the books.)

Who will be doing your editing? How will you assure readers of the quality of your product? What are your plans for cover art? Will you create a sales catalog? What are your anticipated price points for books?

It might also be fair (though admittedly stinging for you - sorry!) to point out that two people who have never had any real experience with the "traditional" publishing world other than promising rejections might not know a whole lot about how the publishing system actually works. That's not me being bitchy to you, I'm just pointing out a very obvious fact.

Shoot, even though I *do* have experience with publishing from an author's POV, I know that I DON'T KNOW a lot about how the business actually works.

We ask these questions because we're not sure that you've asked them of yourself, although they are questions that should be covered in a business plan.

Believe me, we'd all be in favor of new, good, small publishers succeeding.

And so, I wish you the best of luck!

Susan G.

SteveS said:

But the very fact that Salvatore Publishing's name is in now featured in a thread on this particular forum will put some people off, and that is unfair. Please understand that I'm not asking for the thread's deletion, I just feel that people will enter this 'Beware' forum, see the name 'Salvatore Publishing' and think: 'scam'.

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Not true, lots of well-known and legit publishers are in the B&BC forum. Some are there mostly to track response times though.

SteveS said:

I just feel that people will enter this 'Beware' forum, see the name 'Salvatore Publishing' and think: 'scam'.

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This forum is not called solely "Beware".

It is called "Bewares and Background Check". And that's exactly what's being done with your company: a background check.

I don't see any evidence that anyone who enters this forum thinks "Scam" the moment they see any new company or agent listed here. And I think that if you wish to correct any perceived impression to this effect, it would be more productive to address people's questions and concerns than to keep going on about how "wrong and damaging" this "injustice" and "terrible shame" is to you.

Steve, I explained to you in my reply to your PM that extended dialogues are frowned upon in that forum which is why I closed that thread and ported it over here.

You aren't helping your cause by constantly playing the victim card.

By the way, I added a link from there to here.