Fiscal Cliff

blacbird · Jan 2, 2013

Gregg said:
Maybe some short term political winners. But that will be short lived.
Winners (in any)?
The rich...Obama wanted to raise taxes on those making over $200,000/$250,000. He agreed to raise the limit by $200,000.

And won, big-time, over the Republicans, who wanted no change whatever.

Gregg said:
The estate tax goes up 5% to 40%, but the exemption remains at $5 million (indexed for inflation); Obama wanted a 45% tax on estates over $3.5 million.

Minor, perhaps. But again, Republicans want this tax eliminated entirely.

Gregg said:
Dividends - some Democrats wanted them taxed at ordinary income rates for the top brackets - they "only" went up to 20%.

Another significant victory for Obama. Republicans also want this tax elimiinated entirely, legacy of Ronald Reagan.

Gregg said:
The unemployed

Gregg said:
: benefits extended

Echo the above.

Gregg said:
Losers?
Workers - anybody receiving a paycheck will see their social security tax increase 2%.

Utter nonsense. The FICA decrease was a sunseted short-term effort to bolster incomes, and neither Party proposed that it continue. Obama actually did propose that, against the opposition of seniors (AARP), and got shot down by the GOP.

Gregg said:
The economy

Gregg said:
: with nothing done to cut spending, huge Federal deficits will continue.

Plan B. Now we can discuss that, and it most certainly will be. But the table has been cleared of these other matters, so that me become a little clearer.

In the end, the war goes on, but Republicans got hammered on this one.

And deserved to be.

caw

Dodge · Jan 2, 2013

If the government wasn't overspending then the Bush tax cuts wouldn't get slammed (not that I care for either party anyway, but I do support smaller government - both parties included).

nighttimer · Jan 3, 2013

blacbird said:
Obama won this battle, and looked Presidential doing it. John Boehner and Eric Cantor lost it, largely because they looked Congressional in fighting it.

robeiae said:
Disagree. He looked like an arrogant little man.

Obama looked positively Lincolnesque compared to a little ass weasel like Eric "Don't Turn Your Back" Cantor and the increasingly impotent John "Limp Bizkit" Boehner who couldn't negotiate his way out of an open closet. Who could forget how he came up with his insipid "Plan B" yet had to pull the plan off the table when it became obvious even to Boehner he didn't have the votes to pass it within his own Republican majority.

If there's a political equivalent of Viagra, Boehner needs to fixed up with about a thousand c.c's of the stuff.

But no one should feel like this is resolved because we're going to be right back here again next month and the grown ups in both parties will still have to deal with the intractability of The American Taliban a.k.a. The House Republicans.

President Obama isn’t perfect — he’s a mediocre negotiator, with a penchant for giving away too much. But he’s dealing with a group of fanatical, rabidly anti-government conservatives, who — over the last two years — have threatened to shut down the government, crash the global economy, and induce a second recession in order to lower taxes on the rich and slash spending on a collection of the nation’s most vulnerable citizens.

Judging from the various conservative revolts over the last two weeks, in which House Republicans rejected a conservative plan to deal with the fiscal cliff — “Plan B” — and almost scuttled yesterday’s deal (which was saved by substantial Democratic support), the president holds little leverage, if any, over the GOP. Pace common belief, automatic tax increases on the wealthy aren’t enough to induce a little sanity from congressional Republicans. There’s nothing Obama — or any Democrat — can do to mitigate the policy nihilism of right-wing conservatives in the House.

And so we should expect more of it. Not the least because these same Republicans also won reelection in 2012, in districts that also voted to elect Mitt Romney president. They have no incentive to cooperate, and with the debt ceiling on the horizon, a new opportunity to force crisis.

Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends. :rolleyes

Chrissy · Jan 3, 2013

blacbird said:
Utter nonsense. The FICA decrease was a sunseted short-term effort to bolster incomes, and neither Party proposed that it continue. Obama actually did propose that, against the opposition of seniors (AARP), and got shot down by the GOP.

The 2% FICA tax cut was utter nonsense to begin with, but there's no denying that people who make very little and live paycheck to paycheck are going to feel the pain.

robeiae · Jan 3, 2013

Some other goodies in the deal that saved us from the cliff: http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/01/02/fiscal-cliff-pork-asparagus-nascar-rum

This one slays me:

Making movies in America is big money, and Congress is doing its best to ensure the movie industry doesn't pack up and leave. Television and movie makers can continue to gross $15 million in breaks for filming in the U.S., $20 million for filming in low-income areas, an incentive for Hollywood that costs the country about $430 billion to maintain.

Gregg · Jan 3, 2013

OH! Those dastardly foreign asparagus growers.......

blacbird · Jan 3, 2013

robeiae said:
Disagree. He looked like an arrogant little man.

Mr. Knee? Please make the acquaintance of Mr. Jerk.

There's a reason Obama's approval rating has rocketed up:

http://www.latinospost.com/articles...t-obama-approval-rating-double-digit-lead.htm

And whether you like it or not, this nation remains one in which public opinion matters. If the last election didn't demonstrate that to you, I can't comprehend what would.

CAW

clintl · Jan 3, 2013

There is no fucking way $35 million in tax breaks costs the country $430 billion. That's just absurd.

The sugar import quota doesn't cost the country that much.

Edit: Total box office revenue worldwide was only $32.6 billion, and the US/Canada combined $10.2 billion in 2011. $430 billion? That's beyond outright lying - I don't know what to call it, but it has zero relationship with actual reality.

http://www.mpaa.org/resources/5bec4ac9-a95e-443b-987b-bff6fb5455a9.pdf

robeiae · Jan 4, 2013

clintl said:
There is no fucking way $35 million in tax breaks costs the country $430 billion. That's just absurd.

I assumed the number was based on total costs across time. But it appears to have been a mistake, as the number should be $430 million (over two years, according to this piece).

More:

Here is a list of some of the tax credits:

$78 million to retain an accelerated tax write-off for owners of NASCAR tracks
$62 million tax credit for companies operating in American Samoa
$222 million tax rebate for rum distillers
$222 million in accelerated depreciation for businesses located on Indian reservations
$430 million over two years in tax breaks for film and television producers who incur production costs incurred in the United States, with a special bonus if the costs are incurred in economically depressed areas in the United States
$59 million in tax credits for cellulosic biofuels
$2.2 billion in tax credits for biodiesel and “renewable diesel”
$7 million in consumer tax credits for buying plug-in motorcycles
$154 million for the manufacturers of energy-efficient appliances
$650 million in tax credits for builders of energy-efficient homes
$12 billion in wind-energy-production tax credits

And that's just a partial list.

It seems to me that if tax breaks and loopholes for millionaires and billionaires are part of the problem, then the great majority of these credits should not be extended. But they were.

robeiae · Jan 4, 2013

blacbird said:
And whether you like it or not, this nation remains one in which public opinion matters. If the last election didn't demonstrate that to you, I can't comprehend what would.

CAW

Did I say public opinion didn't matter? My opinion is different than yours, no doubt. Beyond that, I don't get what it is you think you're doing at all. But the all-caps "CAW" was very impressive...

clintl · Jan 4, 2013

robeiae said:
And that's just a partial list.

It seems to me that if tax breaks and loopholes for millionaires and billionaires are part of the problem, then the great majority of these credits should not be extended. But they were.

Out of that list, most of them seem pretty justifiable to me. The questionable ones are ones for NASCAR, the rum distillers, and the ones for Hollywood. The rest seem like good ideas.

veinglory · Jan 4, 2013

Even if they are good ideas, they could wait. A lot of very important bills are waiting right now. The Farm Bill, the Violence Against Women Act, etc.

Fiscal Cliff

blacbird

Dodge

Sparks fly off my pages!

nighttimer

No Gods No Masters

Chrissy

Bright and Early for the Daily Race

robeiae

Touch and go

Gregg

Life is good

blacbird

clintl

Represent.

robeiae

Touch and go

robeiae

Touch and go

clintl

Represent.

veinglory

volitare nequeo