Learn Writing with Uncle Jim, Volume 1

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James D. Macdonald

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The Young Visiters; or, Mr. Salteena's Plan by Daisy Ashford. A novel, from 1919. It went into multiple printings in its first year.

Ms. Ashford was nine years old when she wrote it.

The novel was turned into a stage play, which ran in New York and London in 1920.
 

euclid

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The Young Visiters; or, Mr. Salteena's Plan by Daisy Ashford. A novel, from 1919. It went into multiple printings in its first year.

Ms. Ashford was nine years old when she wrote it.

The novel was turned into a stage play, which ran in New York and London in 1920.

And it's still in print !
I've ordered a copy from Amazon.
Can't wait.
 

IceCreamEmpress

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Why do you say this {The Young Immigrunts} was probably by RL Snr.?

Because the humor is not nine-year-old humor. Most of the jokes are about marital strife and Prohibition, and they're very conscious jokes (rather than the inadvertent humor of The Young Visiters).

It's also a pretty closely-following spoof of The Young Visiters, which seems more like a Ring, Sr. thing to do (his spoofs of avant-garde theater, for instance, are hilarious) than something Ring, Jr. would do at age 9.

Ordered a copy of Daisy Ashford's book from Amazon

It's delightful. I hope you got one with illustrations!

What's "Speculative Mystery"?

Whenever I've seen that used, it's referred to fiction that has both speculative fiction (science fiction/fantasy/slipstream) and mystery elements. Someone solving a crime committed by a reptilian alien, for instance.
 

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bic trick

Hi Uncle Jim,

Thanks for helping so many people with writing. I found this thread while reading another one. Currently, I am in the sixty-second decade of the three hundred and thirty year war against writer's sloth and fear.

The two points that stand out for me are bic and start the next book when the first draft is complete. Both are obvious, but obviously a lot of us have not been doing them.

My first two-hour bic session today was great. I started with a new word document and nothing in mind, trusting whatever came, ready to type. Suddenly, a big bald guy was standing in a cave, looking at a closed steel door. Yowsa! How fun.

Whenever I started to slow down, I let go and trusted whatever came, regardless. It was outrageous, but it flowed like a stream.

Thanks again to you and everybody for all the guidance and inspiration. Until I started reading this thread, I wasn't considering a novel until getting my non-fiction manuscript published with a few follow up non-fic books after that.

Okay, back to reading--I'll be awhile.

Phil
 

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Icy and Uncle Jim,

I've completed a manuscript (FN) and have sent a query off to one agent. Now I'm obsessing over what could be wrong that I didn't see or didn't know.

My novel would lend itself to illustrations. As an artist, I would love that, and have already painted/drawn some. I know there isn't much chance of it getting published, much less being published with illustrations, but I truly love illustrated novels. I know it's the cost, but they are so lovely.

Getting down to work is never hard for me. I grab a cuppa in the morning when I get up, and so thoroughly concentrate, that it jars me when I get interrupted. I'd rather stay at my computer and write than do anything else.

When I print out the day's work, I take it to my bed, lie down and start correcting. Then I go back to the computer.

I love writing. I wish I hadn't wasted so much time before I got serious - but a girl's gotta eat!
 

euclid

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Ring Lardner jnr

Because the humor is not nine-year-old humor. Most of the jokes are about marital strife and Prohibition, and they're very conscious jokes (rather than the inadvertent humor of The Young Visiters).

It's also a pretty closely-following spoof of The Young Visiters, which seems more like a Ring, Sr. thing to do (his spoofs of avant-garde theater, for instance, are hilarious) than something Ring, Jr. would do at age 9.

Right. I didn't realise RL jnr was only 9. He went on to a pretty impressive full career as a screen writer (in spite of being blacklisted by the HUAC).
 

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Bump! (Just because we can't have this thread falling off the front page)

Uncle Jim, I just purchased the book "Manuscript Makeover" by Elizabeth Lyon (I figure I need all the help I can get) and just finished "How Not To Write A Novel".

Would you be so good as to make a comment regarding the worth of either of these two books (I found a lot of good information in "How Not...", not to mention the fact that it's highly readable and very funny in places)?

No, I have no vested interest in these aside from trying to improve my skills and learn the craft.
 

James D. Macdonald

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Well, seeing as I haven't read any of those books, I can't really comment too much on 'em.

About any How-To-Write book: If it gets your butt in your chair and your fingers on the keyboard it's a good book.
 

IceCreamEmpress

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My novel would lend itself to illustrations. As an artist, I would love that, and have already painted/drawn some. I know there isn't much chance of it getting published, much less being published with illustrations, but I truly love illustrated novels. I know it's the cost, but they are so lovely.

It's not unheard of, even when a novel has had a large-press trade publication, to also have a limited-edition illustrated version published by a small press that focuses on art books. Neil Gaiman has done this, for instance.
 

Chris Grey

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Well, seeing as I haven't read any of those books, I can't really comment too much on 'em.

About any How-To-Write book: If it gets your butt in your chair and your fingers on the keyboard it's a good book.

This is a know thyself kinda thing, but I know that I use books on writing as a crutch to keep me from actually writing. My favorite is probably The War of Art because it pretty much rails specifically against procrastinating, which is exactly what I used it for.

I already know how to write. I've read enough books to know what the end product should look like, I know enough about English to make my own sentences to express ideas, and I'm fluent enough to know what does and does not work toward that end. No "How To Write" has taught me that.

Uncle Jim said it truest with BIC. Everything else is just tips and tricks-- some more useful than others, but all are equally worthless if not applied.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have a cat to shave.
 

euclid

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Well, I think I'm a pretty good writer too, but how can I know if there is no more to learn from how-to-write books? I think learning is a lifelong thing. I always try to learn as I go, whatever I'm doing in life.

This book that I am reading right now, the Gotham Writers' Workshop on Writing Fiction, has chapters on Character, POV, plot, description etc. I suppose it must be me, but many of the examples fly right over my head. Just one example (discussing "telling details"):

"In Toni Morrison's Beloved, the eyes of Sethe, the protagonist, are certainly a telling detail. Here is how Sethe's eyes are seen by her old friend Paul D:

irises the same color of her skin, which, in that still face, made him think of mercifully punched-out eyes.

...Such telling details...stay in the reader's mind with an almost hypnotic force."

I don't get this. What are "punched-out eyes"? And "mercifully" punched-out eyes?

Maybe it's a cultural thing...
 

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Of course there are things to learn, from books on writing, from other writers, from mundane everyday experiences. Anyone who thinks they can't learn anything new, especially about a craft like writing, or any other art, is a fool. We must never think we are above instruction, molding, mentoring. There's a whole world out there we can learn from.
 

James D. Macdonald

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Now if you'll excuse me, I have a cat to shave.

Once you've shaved that cat you can wax it and buff it to a high gloss!

I don't get this. What are "punched-out eyes"? And "mercifully" punched-out eyes?

Beats heck out of me.

Maybe if we saw the entire scene it would make sense....
 

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Maybe "mercifully punched out eyes" means punched out (like a hole punch on a train ticket) and no longer able to see the desperation of the world. That could be deemed merciful. Still a very strange example. If I read the book, I don't think that line would grab my attention at all, but singled out, it does.
 

James D. Macdonald

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If we want to talk about eyes, the only description we have of Elizabeth Bennett in Pride and Prejudice is that she has "fine eyes." And in Njal's Saga, Hallgerd's description is that she has "thief's eyes."

If you want telling details, pretty much anything by Dashiell Hammett is wall-to-wall telling detail.
 

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...Such telling details...stay in the reader's mind with an almost hypnotic force."

I don't get this. What are "punched-out eyes"? And "mercifully" punched-out eyes?

Maybe it's a cultural thing...


I disagree with the author's take on details. First, you don't want things to stick out. This phrase, as it is presented, sticks out like a sore thumb.

You want prose where the reader has already decided the details fit the picture you already began painting. You don't want abrupt details that startle the reader into re-examining her position on the story.

The example I would give is that of a woman lying naked on a blanket in the sun, her legs bronze, with patches of sand on her thighs. If I continue with how lovely the setting sun was touching down in the ocean, this would make sense. If I offered that the woman was on the bank of a stream in the mountains, it would be memorable and would stick with the reader like glue, but would probably make the reader review their position.
These types of things take me out of the story and I find it hard to continue without going back to look and see where I went wrong. Sometimes the story isn't worth going back for.

I want details that are so precise I never notice them, but still cause me to incorporate them into my mental picture.


As an aside, I find that when my Beta's read something and offer a suggestion that is completely impossible with the image I am trying to paint, I have made just that above mentioned mistake.

Anyone else have this happen to them? anyone? Damn, I knew I was the only one.
 

James D. Macdonald

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The only other descriptions we get of Hallgerd in Njal's Saga is that she has blonde hair long enough to tuck in her belt (this becomes a plot-point later), and we are told that in her youth she was called "Hallgerd Long-legs."

Literary writers are fonder of more (and more nonsensical) metaphors in their writing. I've linked to this essay before, and I'm going to link to it again: http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200107/myers
 

euclid

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I disagree with the author's take on details. First, you don't want things to stick out. This phrase, as it is presented, sticks out like a sore thumb.

You want prose where the reader has already decided the details fit the picture you already began painting. You don't want abrupt details that startle the reader into re-examining her position on the story.

The example I would give is that of a woman lying naked on a blanket in the sun, her legs bronze, with patches of sand on her thighs. If I continue with how lovely the setting sun was touching down in the ocean, this would make sense. If I offered that the woman was on the bank of a stream in the mountains, it would be memorable and would stick with the reader like glue, but would probably make the reader review their position.
These types of things take me out of the story and I find it hard to continue without going back to look and see where I went wrong. Sometimes the story isn't worth going back for.

I'm not sure I understood this point either. Are you saying the sand on her thighs suggested a seaside scene, and then the mountain scene contradicted that?

If you continued as you suggested with a lovely setting sun touching down on the ocean, I would probably think "Aw heck, why is he looking out to sea? What about that NAKED WOMAN? Tell us some more about her." Or maybe we should assume that she's wrapped up and gone home now that the sun has set.
 

euclid

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