Gardeners of AW, unite

Fenrika, I would love to get rid of some lawn in favor of native wildflowers or something but hubs won't let me! He and I have very different ideas about what we want in a yard

Weavergirl, what kind of summer squash are you trying to grow? I've only ever grown zucchini myself, but I know they need to be fertilized often or the new fruits will wither on the vine because the plant doesn't have enough energy to maintain them. I would imagine other squash to be similar.

Kricket, I second Fenrika's suggestion to use something other than jars for your herbs. They need good drainage, and as far as I know there's no way to drill holes in a jar without breaking it. I grow rosemary, oregano, lavender, thyme and mint year-round in an outdoor bed, they seem to like a lot of sun and not too much water (except the mint, it prefers partial shade and moist soil). They don't require much fertilizer either, just a couple of times a year and they're happy.

Vortex Theory said:

Weavergirl, what kind of summer squash are you trying to grow? I've only ever grown zucchini myself, but I know they need to be fertilized often or the new fruits will wither on the vine because the plant doesn't have enough energy to maintain them. I would imagine other squash to be similar.

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???? Zucchinis are about the easiest vegetables to grow I can imagine, even in the benighted northern latitude where I live (Alaska). The major problem here is just the short season, but the plants require almost no maintenance, other than sufficient water. I usually grow a green variety, and the bright yellow Gold Rush type, just for a mixture.

But, when I lived in more southerly climes, a really terrific summer squash variety I had great success with is from the Park Seed Company, called Park's Creamy. It gets a trifle larger than standard zucchini, slightly asymmetrical, and of a rather dull beige color. But a fabulous flavor, rather nutty and a bit firmer than zucchini in cooking. Unfortunately for me, it takes just a bit longer growing season, and a bit more warmth than I can manage up here (I've tried). But I'd recommend it for anyone living in a place with a warmer and longer summer.

When I lived in north Texas, where it gets really hot, I also had good luck with the light green kuta squash.

caw

Blacbird, maybe my soil is nutrient-poor compared to yours? For me, whenever there are more than 4-5 zucchini on one plant, the new ones don't develop unless I fertilize every couple of weeks. Most of the local gardeners I know say the same thing - in fact I learned it from my mom, and she's an excellent gardener so there must be some truth to it!

Thanks for the suggestions, all. Borers was the first thing I checked for, to no avail. The squash issue crosses all varieties that I have planted; yellow squash, zucchini, odd shaped, what-ya-call-em, hybrids, heirlooms, they’ve all met the same fate. I even brought a soil sample to the extension office for testing.
Everything should be fine.
One guy at the extension office suggested it may be a fungus growing in the soil, but they don’t test for that. Their only suggestion was to make friends with someone that is growing squash successfully and trade them some awesome carrots for it.

I’m have better luck with the winter squash in a new location, so maybe I’ll try the summer squash there in the Spring and see what happens.

Kricket, why not use your little patch of land to grow your herbs?

Well, I saw pictures of the herbs in the baby food jars, so it seemed to work.

And I'd like to start growing the herbs soon and my gardening patch is currently under a few inches of snow.

Vortex Theory said:

Blacbird, maybe my soil is nutrient-poor compared to yours? For me, whenever there are more than 4-5 zucchini on one plant, the new ones don't develop unless I fertilize every couple of weeks. Most of the local gardeners I know say the same thing - in fact I learned it from my mom, and she's an excellent gardener so there must be some truth to it!

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One of the things about most squash plants is that, once they start producing fruit, you need to pick the things to promote the development of new ones. Don't let zucchini fruits get huge, if you can avoid it.

Fertilizer certainly will help, but you can get a bag of simple fertilizer from your garden store, mix it properly with your soil at the beginning of the planting season, and it should last at least 6-8 weeks, probably more, even with big plants like squashes that require heavy feeding. You really shouldn't need to fertilize very often if you prepare the soil at the start. What kind of fertilizer are you using?

caw

Blacbird, I use a liquid 10-10-10 fertilizer, whatever brand happens to be on sale at the local hardware store. However I've never fertilized at the start because I was afraid it would burn the new plants - I start them from seedlings, and the instructions always say not to fertilize until they've been in the ground for a couple of weeks. I think my other problem is that I do like to let some of the zucchini get huge so I can stuff them - I pick the smaller ones for sauteing, but I always leave one or two on there until they get so big they'll barely fit on a cookie sheet!

Fenrika, my husband just likes the look of plain old grass, although he doesn't do much with it other than mow it obsessively. I'd rather have little or no grass, since I prefer a more natural look, but he's all about having a traditional yard as opposed to an untamed meadow. The borders are mine, though, so for now that's our compromise. He's also agreed to build me a window box for my office since the utility company just removed the tree that was my only cover on that side, leaving me with a rather dismal view of the burned-out house (long story!) and low-income apartments behind us.

Vortex Theory said:

Blacbird, I use a liquid 10-10-10 fertilizer, whatever brand happens to be on sale at the local hardware store. However I've never fertilized at the start because I was afraid it would burn the new plants - I start them from seedlings, and the instructions always say not to fertilize until they've been in the ground for a couple of weeks.

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I have a couple of suggestions. First, prepare your soil with some organic solid fertilizer, something simple like dried manure, easily available and not very expensive at any garden store. Chicken manure is quite good, and I had a friend who used to raise rabbits, and bag up the droppings and give them to me, and that was fabulous. Unfortunately a bear broke into her hutches and ate her rabbits, but that's another story . . .

But your starting soil almost certainly needs some fertilization to make the baby plants happy. I think the instructions about the liquid fertilizer are there because it's much easier to over-fertilize with that stuff. I never use liquid fertilizers on vegetables, though I do for flower beds.

Second, for zucchini and other summer squashes, try starting your own from seeds, in little 4-inch pots, with standard potting soil, which is nearly always fertilized. It's ridiculously easy, and cheaper than buying starts. Do this a month or so before you want to put them out, and they don't need any light until they have emerged. Once they have developed the first secondary leaves (the frilly-edged ones), they are ready to be transplanted). I highly recommend the bright yellow Gold Rush variety, or any of several similar yellow ones, in part because they are attractive, and in part because I've had very good luck with them. I usually grow some of them, and some green variety, just for variety.

Vortex Theory said:

I think my other problem is that I do like to let some of the zucchini get huge so I can stuff them - I pick the smaller ones for sauteing, but I always leave one or two on there until they get so big they'll barely fit on a cookie sheet!

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This is a significant problem retarding the development of new fruit. I don't think your fertilization is nearly as big a trouble as this. So, what I'd suggest, if you have the space, is dedicating a couple of plants for the growing of BIG squashes, and a couple for the continuous harvesting of small ones. I usually pick mine at large cucumber size, 8-10 inches in length. If you pick these continuously when the reach that size, you'll continue to get new ones to develop.

The biggest problems I have are sufficient warmth and/or sufficient water. Squashes like both. But I live in a short-season cool climate which is often cloudy, and still manage to get sufficient squash fruits every summer off three or four plantings (two or three plants each in raised beds made from old tires). In a warmer, longer-season locale you should not have trouble making zucchini work.

And try some other summer squashes, things like patty squash or that Parks' Creamy Hybrid I mentioned (you'll have to mail-order for seeds of that). Unfortunately for me, where I now live, every variety other than standard zucchinis seem to require a slightly longer growing season, and are more sensitive to cool, wet weather, alas.

caw

Kricket said:

I'm not sure what grows best here in Colorado.

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The best advice I've ever read about this said the easiest way to find out is to just look around your neighbourhood. You're looking for two things, one: which weeds grow well, because you'll have to deal with them, and two: well established gardens where someone clearly cares about what they've planted. Whatever they're growing is the kind of thing you can do easily.

Whatever you grow I hope you enjoy it.

Thanks blacbird, you are a wealth of information! I always wanted to start from seeds because there are so many more varieties available, but I never seem to plan well enough ahead for that to happen. But if I order the seeds pretty soon I should be able to pull it off - I try to plant in late March or early April, since our summer generally lasts from May to early October. And my mom has chickens, I don't know why I've never thought to ask her for some of their manure! I've been wanting to go organic with the fertilizer but I always assumed I'd have to formulate something myself, difficult because there's nowhere nearby to obtain the raw materials.

I usually plant at least two zucchini plants, so designating one for stuffers and and one for the smaller ones is a fantastic idea! And I've got plenty of space for other squash like pattypans and yellow crookneck, I just never plant them because I can't find the seedlings around here. My husband is far more willing to give up lawn space in favor of something we can eat rather than stuff I just think is pretty.

I'm also intrigued by those cucumber-melon hybrids, have you heard of them? Here's the link: http://parkseed.com/melon-gold-bar-hybrid/p/05502-PK-P1/ I've never grown cucumbers or melons before, but I would imagine it's similar to growing squash?

Unfortunately I don't eat eggs, but there's an oyster farm on the coast where I sometimes go to hike. Do you think oyster shells would be a good substitute for eggshells or would they take too long to break down?

Aww, but I wanted an excuse to drive to the coast!

Actually I bet my mom has surplus eggshells - not only is it a much shorter drive, she practically insists I take a jar or two of pickled green beans and some homemade beer when I leave!

Vortex Theory said:

Unfortunately I don't eat eggs, but there's an oyster farm on the coast where I sometimes go to hike. Do you think oyster shells would be a good substitute for eggshells or would they take too long to break down?

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No, oyster shells would not be a good substitute for eggshells, simply because they are so much thicker and harder and would take about a century to break down in soil. I tried this with some mussel shells a few years ago, and they haven't yet begun to deteriorate. When I turn my garden beds I still dig up some of them. But you can get ground or even powdered lime at any major garden or hardware outlet, not very expensive, and that would be what you need to both calcify and de-acidify your soil.

But learn something about your plants before you go willy-nilly on liming them. Some do very well with lime (lilacs, in particular), some do not (potatoes, blueberries).

And, as a minor semi-digression, another good thing for garden soil is wood ash. If you live in a place where you do fireplace stuff, save the ash and work it into the soil before planting in the spring. It is dominated chemically by potassium carbonate, which also serves to reduce soil acidity and is a good source of potassium, which nearly all plants love.

caw

If you have the ability to burn manure, that ash is also good for plants.

**peaks in** Is winter over yet?

Ugh. It's only January. I didn't grow any zucchini last year. I won't miss out this year. I actually like them better than cucumbers for making pickles.

Some changes for me this year will be to add more vermiculite to help retain some moisture and loosen the soil. I need to add calcium in the bins for tomatoes (had some bottom rot.) and plant my broccoli and brussel sprouts way early and again beginning of August maybe so I get two harvests. We had a weird weather season last year cold spring and too hot summer so those two plants didn't take off til September. I didn't realize how much the brussels and the brocs liked it really cool. I picked them both the beginning of December (not real cold and no snow yet), believe it or not, and we had them with Christmas dinner.

HistorySleuth said:

I didn't realize how much the brussels and the brocs liked it really cool.

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Along with almost all other cabbage family plants, like cabbages, kale, bok choy, radishes, turnips, rutabagas, cauliflower, mizuna, arugula, etc. And the widely-neglected kohlrabi, one of my favorites.

Plus some non-cabbage family plants, like swiss chard and lettuce and spinach.

Where you live, you could probably plant a lot of these in August and have them develop during the cooler fall months, quite nicely.

caw

Thank you blacbird. I knew about the leafy lettuce type plants and cauliflower but not all the others. That's kind of exciting. I will have to experiment.

Fenika said:

Blackbird, I would get everything away from those tires. The rubber has all sorts of chemicals and nasties built in. They will or already are releasing those toxic compounds.

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But they're organic tires . . .



Your point is well-taken. I do line the soil, but I think I'll construct some other enclosures, and take the tires to the landfill.

caw