Pay to submit to literary/poetry markets?

Shadow_Ferret said:

I'm not sure I know what you mean. If you publish in a magazine that goes under, you still were published, right?

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They key word is "publish". It's entirely possible for a story to be accepted but not published. (Esp. by a newish/struggling/whatever magazine.)

Ah. I guess I've been lucky as they all folded after I got paid and the story was published.

Shadow_Ferret said:

I'm not sure I know what you mean. If you publish in a magazine that goes under, you still were published, right? You've given up first rights, which is what you would have given up no matter where you published or how long the magazine lasted.

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Yes, what you said above is right. Your first rights would be gone. And your story is no longer in print. What don't you understand?

Shadow_Ferret said:

Ah. I guess I've been lucky as they all folded after I got paid and the story was published.

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I've had this happen both ways many times. Imo, it's much worse when it goes under after your story is published. The small amount we get paid for stories isn't really the point. Hour per hour, there is pretty much nothing that pays less so that's not it. The point is, you want your stories out there, in print, being read, building your readership. If the place goes under before it's published, at least you still have your first rights. Most places don't want reprints.

Fruitbat said:

Yes, what you said above is right. Your first rights would be gone. And your story is no longer in print. What don't you understand?

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I don't understand what the difference is between: If you publish a story in the June issue of So and So and the magazine goes under in August, or if you publish the story in the June issue of This and That and the magazine survives -- because either way, in August, that issue will be off the stands and out of people's minds. Just because This and That keeps on printing magazines doesn't mean my story is still in print, it's still forgotten in a back issue somewhere.

For me, the only thing that counted was I got paid.

Shadow_Ferret said:

I don't understand what the difference is between: If you publish a story in the June issue of So and So and the magazine goes under in August, or if you publish the story in the June issue of This and That and the magazine survives -- because either way, in August, that issue will be off the stands and out of people's minds. Just because This and That keeps on printing magazines doesn't mean my story is still in print, it's still forgotten in a back issue somewhere.

For me, the only thing that counted was I got paid.

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Well, we're all in it for different things, so if you're happy with it then no problem. But in print is still something, and sometimes online or in an anthology, so not the same as "gone." And then how long are you going to list a credit after a publication is defunct? What I want is my stories "out there" as much as possible. That's how you build a following. But yeah, plenty of them do go under and it's certainly not the end of the world. Then I send it around to the places that do take reprints and hope to find a second chance with it.

Shadow_Ferret said:

I don't understand what the difference is between: If you publish a story in the June issue of So and So and the magazine goes under in August, or if you publish the story in the June issue of This and That and the magazine survives -- because either way, in August, that issue will be off the stands and out of people's minds. Just because This and That keeps on printing magazines doesn't mean my story is still in print, it's still forgotten in a back issue somewhere.

For me, the only thing that counted was I got paid.

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Well, many magazines, print and electronic, keep online archives, and if the magazine folds, it's pretty common for their site to shut down, and then you no longer have it up for people to read. Also, if you find any value in publishing credits as encouraging people, readers or editors, to consider further work, it might not help if they follow your link and end up on a porn site that grabbed the domain after the magazine folded.


Not trying to take a side in this discussion, just I think different people are looking for different things, and the things above might matter to some writers even if you don't mind.

I want to submit works to places that have a good reputation, a big enough readership to matter, and hopefully a digital backlist. New venues usually can't offer all of that, and may have the looming crisis of under-capitalization, too. I have sent works to small, new publishers, usually as a favor to a friend and with the knowledge there was not going to be much money involved.

If a new press unfamiliar to me asked me to pay, I'd probably walk away.

Fruitbat said:

Since I write lots of flash, I submit lots of stories to lots of literary magazines. And no, I have not found that to be true. You don't have to pay to submit to most of the literary magazines, in my experience, and I wouldn't do it.

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I don't write flash fiction so I can't speak for that. I do write literary and speculative fiction and submit/publish widely. I haven't found speculative magazines charge, but the literary magazines I submit to are generally print magazines, often through universities. Not all of them charge, but many do. Believe me, I do have a problem with it and try to avoid it whenever possible. More and more however, in my experience at least, it seems to be the norm.

Liosse de Velishaf said:

Well, many magazines, print and electronic, keep online archives, and if the magazine folds, it's pretty common for their site to shut down, and then you no longer have it up for people to read. Also, if you find any value in publishing credits as encouraging people, readers or editors, to consider further work, it might not help if they follow your link and end up on a porn site that grabbed the domain after the magazine folded.

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OK. I see. I guess I am different. One place shut down and my story was online for years and years as I tried to contact whoever now had control of the dead website demanding they take my story down. I guess I don't want my stories out there in perpetuity. I was so happy when I finally was able to get it taken down.