The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

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FM St George

Re: Maybe someone did respond

still there right now...

no one there has two brain cells to rub together, anyway - here they are, treating a buck as if it were the Holy Grail and bragging about how it "brought them all together" while they use their royalty checks to buy a pair of hamburgers at McDonalds..

it's a good mental dupe - heck, why would you worry about MONEY when you really write for the FUN of it and look at all the great FRIENDS you can have if you just BUY your own books and SPEND money you don't have...

truly, a cult.

as for the Jewish comment - can't say that I'm surprised - from the majority of posts it seems that most PA authors are budding fodder for a Foxworthy "You just might be a Redneck" jokes...

jmo, ymmv...
 

FM St George

let's see...

well, here's HB the bully beating down a new author who seems to have had gotten a clue...

www.publishamerica.com/cg...al/697.htm

and here's a sad one - this woman's been spending money hand over fist to promote her book and she finally woke up...

www.publishamerica.com/cg...n/9234.htm

I'm willing to bet that when she realised that the majority of her royalties were less than a dollar a book... well, you can't afford to pay a publicist and keep on giving away free copies. Sad thing is that she seems to really love her book and her writing - I hope this doesn't break her spirit in the end.

as usual, jmo, ymmv...
 

James D Macdonald

Re: let's see...

Sad thing is that she seems to really love her book and her writing...

All authors love their books and their writing. That's what PA's banking on -- authors believing that if only they read them everyone else would love their books too. Authors will sell their books by any means necessary. To family, to friends, by setting up card tables down at the Laundromat ... whatever it takes. Authors love their books.

And PA knows that authors are able to move, on average, 75 copies of their books. PA's added $5 to the common market price of those books. That's what comes of being a "publisher" rather than a printer. So, on average, PA's authors pay a $375 vanity press fee. It's just they pay it on the back side, as part of the cover price, not up front.

(It doesn't matter if you don't sell your 75 copies. Some other eager beaver will sell 150 to make up for it. By dint of hiring a publicist, buying ads, giving away copies ... all while the PA bosses count their money.)

Remember, those books are usually being bought by the authors themselves. PA doesn't care if the authors are able to unload them. (At group book signings? I ask you! Selling two or three in a day. Boy, that's a cost-effective way to spend your Saturday afternoon!)
 

DaveKuzminski

One PA author's observation

Here is one topic from above that deserves to be preserved:

eighter marx



3/01/2004
14:27:48
Subject: sale on books


Message:
PA, I know author support does not get advance notice of your sales to authors.

I ordered 251 on the first one and ordered 51 more
on the last sale.

I put books back to save for events already planned but now running out again.

I am holding off to order until I can get the same deal I got on the 251. Any idea when that will be?

I do give a lot away to libraries, papers etc so I need the big discount and no shipping.

Molly Marx Brent
There Ain't Enough Front Porches

Renee Bagley

3/04/2004
16:12:36


RE: sale on books


Message:
Just thought I'd bring this back to the top!

Infocenter, are you there? :)



Renee

jimarh

3/04/2004
16:17:03


RE: sale on books


Message:
I would like to know, too. I am running low and would like to order some soon but hope there is another discount offered before I do...

allen

3/04/2004
17:16:25

Nudists Among Us
www.authorsden.com/allenparker

RE: sale on books


Message:
Y'all have this all wrong. Try this.

Hey Info Center, I have tons of books. I have books coming out of my ears. They aren't selling. You should really dump about 251 of those for half price. I might be persuaded to take them off of your hands. That i if you throw in shipping and pay royalties on them.

Just a thought... Allen

jimarh

3/04/2004
23:20:50


RE: sale on books


Message:
you are always thinking, aren't you Allen?

eighter marx

3/04/2004
23:43:05


RE: sale on books


Message:
They called. When I said I'd order 251 for the 55% and no shipping as I did the first time, she said she'd check and call back but no call back.

After seeing my royalty check, I am no longer interested.

I am also not paying for any more ads, PR firms etc.

Molly Marx Brent
There Ain't Enough Front Porches
 

DaveKuzminski

Another PA author's observation preserved

YianniPalos



3/04/2004
13:48:40
Subject: So, We Are Published. Now what?


Message:
All right! So we are published. Now what?
Without a distributer our books will remain as Print On Demand (POD) books for seven years, unless we, all of us, PA authors do something about it.
Let’s have a Brainstorm, make suggestions, bring our ideas up front, let’s form a PA Authors Book Club, and write to Coen book distributers, or Ingram Book Co., or Bookzine, . . . and so on, as a single voice. I have tried to sell my book to Borders. Although they agreed to put it on the shelves at Borders throughout the USA, they declined to do as such because:
*Marketing and Promotion – Book does not appear to be supported via advertising, marketing or promotion.
So, what the heck we are going to do about it?
I’ll be very glad to add another page at my website, sort of like a second guestbook about this matter. We have some good books out there waiting to be sold not only to our friends and relatives, but also to the mass market; the readers.
Let me know, either here or at www.yiannipalos.com or e-mail: [email protected]
Let’s us escape this sad and discouraging POD status.

argilestox

3/04/2004
14:34:49
RE: So, We Are Published. Now what?


Message:
Dear Yianni,

My book "Computer - End Program is now in the process of editing by P/A. I have had numerous discussions with friends and family about marketing it - when it is finally published. Having worked in retail for over thirty years - I live by three rules:

1. The first one who talks loses
2. AFTO (Ask For The Order)
3. Location, Location, Location

1. When talking to managers of bookstores, I suggest that you let them "spill their guts" about experiences regarding past sales of subject matter they have had on their shelves from Authors published by P/A. Listen very carefully to their comments. Keep quiet, and let them "vomit" all over you. A "pause" does not mean that they are finished. When the pause is long enough - refer to Rule #2 -

2. Even if the manager is not an avid reader, give them a "sample copy" of your book - to take home and read. I have found that individuals who are familiar with a product - tend to "Hawk" it to others. Check back with them on a weekly basis to see if they enjoyed your book. Then - AFTO. Once you have been a familiar face in the store, and have "built a friendship," the manager will be more receptive to your requests.

3. Visit your local Airport News Stands that sell paperbacks. Find out who the manager is or who decides what paperbacks are stocked on their shelves. See if you can have a "face to face" with the "Decision Maker." Again, give a copy of your book to read - and to the "Counter People." Travelers are always asking "What is a good book to read." Chances are, that this store is one of many, that are located in Airports throughout the country. That Airport News Stand - maybe the "Gateway" to others...

I hope my comments have given you something to think about.

Sincerely,
Argile Stox



HBMarcus

3/04/2004
14:40:12

H. B. Marcus
CRISPY
The Joe Schmoe Show
RE: So, We Are Published. Now what?


Message:
"...sad and discouraging.."??? For shame!
I admire your enthusiasm...until I see a statement like that. This is a forum with a firm foundation in marketing ideas and promotional suggestions. One of which is multi-author signings. That gives you an edge because authors from other publishers rarely do it due to ego problems.

Let's take this a step at a time. Are you in all the local libraries in your area? Snap to it! Have you talked to anyone other than the idiot sheep at Borders? Warm up that dialing finger. Have you offered a multi-author signing to a book store in your area and posted a notice here? That gives the public variety, which translates to volume at your signings, which translates to book sales.

Let's look at the national scene, shall we? You aren't part of a traditional POD. This is the fastest growing publisher there is anywhere. You got in on the ground floor. Lucky you. What's that mean? Well, I see seven years in which you can establish yourself on the map where the traditional publishers would give you two minutes to shoot or dribble. That's the difference between real recognition and pipe dreams.

Keep that fire and get yourself out there. Grab the impulse buyers with a yarn and they will tell friends about a good book they read. Get five-hundred out there and PA could review you for distribution through Independence. That's Walden's bookstore nationwide. Liking this 'status' a little better yet?

How about this? If you went with anyone else you wouldn't ever be able to establish a fan base and get your name out there. If you live in Texas and don't promote in Wyoming, your books will be pulled for not selling nationwide. PA gives you SEVEN YEARS to make yourself known. That's quite a bit more realistic, don't you think?

So watch this board as it is a wealth of ideas and strategies. Organize a group signing together. All it takes is posting a notice on the board. If you want to drag me kicking and screaming to the top, I can't have a problem with that. Let's go.

Yianni Palos

3/04/2004
15:23:46


RE: So, We Are Published. Now what?


Message:
I will not disagree or even argue with your comments. Don’t you think that have tried all your suggestions? And let me ask you: Do I not sign a book that I’ve purchased from PA? I am signing a book that is not at the bookstore. Do you see the difference? Sale, Yes. Recognition, Zero.
Public Libraries, State Libraries, High School libraries, University Libraries, FSU Filmschool . . .
I distributed to them, more than sixty copies of my book to be reviewed for acquisition.
By the way, I owned two businesses from 1974 through 1996, and I know something about the politics of advertising and selling yourself.
I just thought that I had an idea. Obviously, according to what I’ve read so far, I must say, I was wrong posting my message. Sorry!
Yianni

shadowfax

3/04/2004
15:32:31
RE: So, We Are Published. Now what?


Message:
Love the possitive attitude, HB! Thanks for all the good advice.
What did you mean "Get five-hundred out there and PA could review you for distribution through Independence"? That we sell 500 of our books and we have proven there is a market for our book - which would qualify us for distribution through Independence?

Thanks,
Lillian

allen

3/04/2004
15:34:08

Nudists Among Us
www.authorsden.com/allenparker

RE: So, We Are Published. Now what?


Message:
Yiani, I think that you missed the point. Don't give up! each time someone says no, ask three more times.

HB is pretty good at hawking ideas, and seeing them realized. He worked out a multiple author deal, a pretty tough thing to do. I tried the same thing and got a NO the first time. I am going to try again.

We can learn from each other. You have a great idea, but if you look through this message board posts, you will find a wealth of knowledge that has come from many great experienced authors.

If you have a great idea, share it with us.

Just a thought... Allen

Yianni Palos

3/04/2004
16:12:13


RE: So, We Are Published. Now what?


Message:
I am not here to criticize PA. They’ ve done what they'd promised to do. And, I respect them for that.
Yianni

HBMarcus

3/05/2004
08:30:10

H. B. Marcus
CRISPY
The Joe Schmoe Show
RE: So, We Are Published. Now what?


Message:
Well, if you have an idea, lay it out here. Give us some details. Don't throw up your hands and say nevermind so quickly. You come off as insulted for even trying to answer your question. I just figured there were some things you didn't know already since you didn't know that Ingrams carries your book already.

skyrocket

3/05/2004
10:19:31


RE: So, We Are Published. Now what?


Message:
After reading these posts...I am going to get in bed and pull the covers over my head!!!...Call me for dinner!!!...Sky

Scribner

3/05/2004
11:08:49
RE: So, We Are Published. Now what?


Message:
The Librarys in Las Vegas, NV are having a Reading
festival on April 3, 2004. Both famous Authors and
Authors just starting out, like myself will be there. Author Ridley Pearson will be there. The Library will have signing tables for all Authors
along with a box lunch.

Woodrow Walker Author of
"Murder at Columbia"

FYI:
What: Reading Festival
When: Saturday, April 3, 2004
Time: 12 Noon to 4pm
Where: Rainbow Library Amphitheater
Who: Johnette Morales - (702)507-3830
e-mail: [email protected]
 

Sonetka

HB...

Been lurking on these threads for a while, and I have to say that to be honest, HBMarcus scares me quite a bit more than the lady who made the "Jewish" comment...she probably just doesn't know better, but as for him....eep.
 

James D Macdonald

Re: Another PA author's observation preserved

First, a general note:

We've seen the commentary from the folks who've tried to get B&N to stock their books, with the letters from B&N saying that they'd prefer not to. The authors respond to this by saying that clearly B&N never read their books. This is an extension of the If They Only Read It They'd Love It fallacy.

The argument goes like this:

1) If B&N read my book they'd love it.
2) They don't love my book.
3) Therefore, they never read it.

<HR>

Dave, I'm really uncomfortable with the copyright aspects of reposting entire PA threads.

<HR>

That being said, let me comment on some parts of HB's post:


One of which is multi-author signings. That gives you an edge because authors from other publishers rarely do it due to ego problems.

Ego problems? It's been a whole three weeks since my last multiple-author booksigning.

If all your sales come from booksignings, sure, doing them is something you can try. Still, you need to look at signings in a purely practical way. Are you pulling in more money than you're spending? The way the Ohio Booksigning went, the one HB organized, he and his pals would have gotten more books into the hands of more readers, at a lower cost to themselves, by putting a five-dollar bill inside each copy and leaving a stack by the mall entrance with a sign that said "Free books! Take one!"

The "ego" is HB's. He wants to feel like a published author, so he sets up signings. During those hours he spends behind the table he feels like an author, because that's how he imagines published authors spend their time.

Are you in all the local libraries in your area? Snap to it!

The fact that PA books aren't cataloged by the Library of Congress makes this more difficult than is should be. The fact that PA books aren't reviewed in Library Journal or Publishers Weekly makes it more difficult than it should be. I've heard reports of libraries that wouldn't take PA books as a gift. Even so, even if you do somehow manage to convince your local library to accept your book, that's just your local library. That doesn't do you a bit of good the next town over or the next state over.

Get five-hundred out there and PA could review you for distribution through Independence.

Which gets you sort-of where traditionally published authors start. Except it's only through Waldens, there are maximum and minimum orders, the returnability has a time limit, the books have to be paid for up front ... in other words your book still has two strikes against it and a curve headed for the plate. Plus, there's no guarantee you'll get the deal, only that PA will "review" your book. How many of the (now seven thousand) happy PA authors have gotten the Independence imprint? How many have sold (or bought themselves) five hundred copies? That is, among the people who have paid PA a $5*500=$2,500 vanity publishing fee.

If you went with anyone else you wouldn't ever be able to establish a fan base and get your name out there. If you live in Texas and don't promote in Wyoming, your books will be pulled for not selling nationwide.

The sheer, appalling, breathtaking ignorance of this statement renders me speechless. The fact that thousands upon thousands of authors have already done what HB states they "wouldn't ever be able to" do appears to have escaped him. Just walking through any bookstore should convince anyone capable of rational thought that what he says can't possibly be true.

I'd really, really like to ask HB how many total copies of his books he's sold, and at what dollar expense to him each sale came.
 

DaveKuzminski

About those postings

If I'm wrong, those can be deleted. However, I believe the content is pertinent to understanding the ongoing discussion here. I also believe that those constitute evidence that might disappear from the public record if those are not preserved away from that particular forum where information regularly disappears because it is critical of their image and operations.
 

FM St George

Re: About those postings

I don't think HB is a bad fellow, I just think he's a bully when he's on the PA boards - if you dare to mention anything negative, it's turned around to be YOUR fault; that you've somehow dropped the ball and that PA is blameless in anything and everything...

I daresay his expensive hobby is going to end at some point when he just can't afford to keep giving away his books... he states in another post that he's now selling more of his first book than his second, and he's been promoting the second more than the first... which sounds to me like he's saturated his market of family and friends (and local harassed bookstore managers) and is topping out...

I just wish he wouldn't be such a bully on the boards - PA can hire their own thugs; they don't need him.

jmo, ymmv.
 

DaveKuzminski

One topic is gone already

Well, PA might have deleted one of those two, but we have it here. Furthermore, I think it's right that we copy some of those topics in order to provide important information to writers considering who to submit their work to. So, there's an educational aspect as well.

By the way, Jenna, if PA or any of their goons threaten you, you can counter that this forum is a public service for writers and as such it has a right to provide such information. That's the reply I give to the few such threats I've received over at P&E and not one lawsuit has ever occurred. That's probably because their attorneys told them I was right. That's because I got my information from an attorney.
 

James D Macdonald

Re: About those postings

I think that HB has an awful lot of ego invested in How Clever He Was to go with PA.

But perhaps I'm getting into Take It Outside territory?
 

FM St George

Re: About those postings

it's funny... they delete the topic where someone is asking for advice and gets beaten down by the local bully, but leave up (for the time being) the post where an author who's put a lot of heart, soul and money into her book announces that she's not interested in buying anymore nor paying outside publicists to push it...

I'd love to know what those webmasters smoke....

:)

and ooh... another rebel!

www.publishamerica.com/cg...al/704.htm


3/05/2004
13:50:44
Subject: Freedom of Speech!


Message:
Freedom of Speech?
I though I could communicate with Publish America authors not only for a light chitchat, but also for serious matters. Well! I guess discussing serious matters at “Writing Discussion - General” is not a place to exercise the Freedom of Speech.
Yesterday I posted a message: So, You are published. Now what?
To my surprise, today I fount out that my posted message has been removed.
Well! So much about The Freedom of Speech.
Yianni

we should start a pool on this one... I say, three hours?

next?

:D
 

RealityChuck

Re: About those postings

It's quite clear that PA authors think the purpose of the PA message board is to be relentless positive, even in the fact of reality.

HB Marcus seems to have appointed himself as PA's Happiness Patrol. If someone becomes negative, he sentences them to hang from the neck until they cheer up.
 

astonwest

Re: About those postings

"I'd really, really like to ask HB how many total copies of his books he's sold, and at what dollar expense to him each sale came."

Considering he's not part of the Independence Books imprint, we can say for certain he's never reached the 500 mark...other than that, I don't forsee him telling folks publicly...it's a lot harder to debate how well your 'technique' works when the facts speak for themselves...

FM, it will remain (now that everyone has come in and chastised the other author for having such a "combative attitude" on such a "positive forum" (yes, almost shot milk out of my nose too)), until someone comes in and makes logical arguments to the detriment of PA...

"So go ahead and spew crap that isn't helpful to your publisher on a public board. See what that does since your spews have already been pulled once."

Oops, HB confirming the fact that posts get pulled by PA? How can that be? ;-P

Oh well...it's always good for a laugh...

"One of my post was pulled the other day and I'm not freaking out about it. People started to say things that was not in PA's best interest. After all, it's their website, message board and they have the right to remove whatever they choose."

And how about policing other boards (and websites), and removing authors permission to post based on what they see there?? Odd...

"We are all in the same PA boat, like it or not.
I'm just happy to have a book published and I'm looking forward to many more. In that regard we all owe PA gratitude. What you do with your book after it is published is up to you. We all knew that when we signed."

I'm looking forward to many more books published as well...just not with PA...I'm grateful they were willing to publish my first book, but after I came to realize there was little to no acceptance criteria involved, that gratefulness was severely reduced...and is almost non-existent at this point...

Yes, most PA authors know the future of your book is in their own hands, in the form of promotion and such...however, with so many roadblocks and barricades set up by the publisher themselves (in the form of poor editing, high prices, and such), it's hard to fathom the attitudes of the believers...

As I mentioned, good for a laugh...

Big Daddy West
:hat
 

Ed Williams 3

The worst thing with the tripe HB spews...

...is that he spews it to some PA authors who just don't know any better. I find it incredibly ironic that someone who has never been traditionally published yacks so often about it. It's also interesting to note that a search on Amazon yields the fact that his books are hardly hot sellers, even evaluated by PA standards. Bottom line, I think HB totes the party line for PA because he is terrified that his status as a "published author" will be in jeopardy if he doesn't.

This whole situation is so sad, because I am sure PA has some excellent writers whose books will never sell beyond close family and friends, and that's where I fault a clown like HB. He deliberately misleads others to go down the same path he did, only in his case there is no alternative. Then, they are stuck there with him, and his endless drivel about "multi-author signings," "being in on the ground floor," and the like. He must feel he has to bully people, because the biggest fear bullies ever have is that their subjects investigate and find out the facts for themselves. HB has only one option, PA, and what he does to others there makes him both a clown and a loser in my book.
 

DaveKuzminski

Re: The worst thing with the tripe HB spews...

HB should be held legally accountable for what he states in that forum to those other writers. There is no "ground floor" for any writer to get in on because an author with PublishAmerica will receive royalties based solely upon how well that author's books sold and not on how well the publisher does overall. The publisher isn't sharing its profits. Ergo, a writer who signs with PublishAmerica at the beginning has no more standing than does an author who signs on the following year or two years later. Consequently, HB is spouting nonsense and is deliberately misleading others.
 

LiamJackson

Re: The worst thing with the tripe HB spews...

Dave, I've been approached, in a friendly fashion, by a couple of PA authors, both of whom encouraged me to submit my novel to PA. Oddly, they both used the phrase "get in on the ground floor."

When I replied that, under PA's current structure, the "ground floor" was the ONLY floor, I was immediately corrected. Apparently, there's some sense that once PA reaches a certain financial plateau, they'll morph into a 'traditional publishing house' and start writing those big, fat advance checks.

I've no way of knowing if PA actually promotes this mindset, however, if they do....
 

dgkgoldberg

tone

HB's diatribe against the poster who had a question about what to do next was a good techinique.

The idea that you got in and now you want to be negative and shut the door on other writers, and the suggestion that someone who has tried for decades to be published could choose not to submit to PA because of a negative tone presented as horrid things are very good brainwashing techniques.

There's no discourse. HB's answer to everything is that anyone who has a question or a different point of view is a pathetic loser is evident.

I think he might not be all that good a person.
 

Sonetka

Various...

HB seems to be ...I looked up his website out of curiosity, and it's, well, something else.

BTW, on a slightly irrelevant note, what is PublishAmerica doing in Iceland? It's a fascinating country, but I wouldn't think they would have much fodder for the publishing industry, unless perhaps their fraud laws are unusually lax.
 

astonwest

Re: Various...

If we're taking bets on posts getting pulled and/or authors getting banned...

"I read Yianni's first post and I didn't think it was negative. They were questions/concerns. Maybe they weren't posted the way some people like, but they were Yianni posting valid questions and concerns. If someone has an issue or a problem why can't they post it here and not get nailed? I've read posts where someone goes on and on about another person and yet that post remains. Is that positive?? No.

No business is 100% positive. Every business has some problems. It's the brave that bring the problems to the forefront. If they do it in a way that upsets the applecart.... maybe the applecart needs to be fixed."

www.publishamerica.com/cg...al/704.htm

Methinks that won't stay up for long...especially since this same author made an appearance (to say hello) on Mindsight recently...two big no-nos in PA-land...hmmmmm...

Big Daddy West
:hat
 

Minoterrae

MidWest Book Review

I've been reading a couple of older posts when I came across a few calling the Midwest Book Review a joke. Could someone please explain this?

I'm continuing to read the older posts so if this has already been answered, I will find it eventually.

Thanks!

www.abandon-hope.com
 

emeraldcite

i didn't even have to

i didn't even have to bring this up, someone did it on their own. Did anyone else notice that the convention's big draw Jaime Farr didn't show up?

www.publishamerica.com/cg...n/9277.htm

not sure if this post will last, but there's the link. Apparently he cancelled because he was going to the academy awards. gee, i thought he'd pick the convention over that.
 

FM St George

Re: i didn't even have to

well, looks like ALL those nasty posts asking all those nasty questions are gone...

*chuckle*

the sad thing is that people are beginning to notice because they're getting yanked and then asking... thus getting their own post yanked as well!

especially the new authors... wonder how they're feeling right now; being at the front of the new "banned" group?

:p

at least HB can breathe easier with the thugs from PA right there with their finger on the button to defend him...

*laughs*
 

James D Macdonald

Re: MidWest Book Review

Midwest Book Review has been around for years.

It serves a useful purpose: It catalogs self-published and very-small-press books, which otherwise might never be listed anywhere at all.

Gale Reseach (which is itself a bit of a joke) uses Midwest Book Review as one source of their shovelware reference books. These reference books do make it into libraries -- not because they're good, but because they're the only books out there on certain subjects. (I challenge anyone to take a random Gale Research book and not find a substantial error of fact -- before you get out of the table of contents.)

But ... as to why Midwest Book Reviews is itself a not-terribly-prestigious place to be reviewed.

As someone else said, they're amateur reviews for amateur books. All it takes to become one of their reviewers is to ask to be one. I could be one of their reviewers, you could, Aunt Mable could, Joe the Ragman could -- without having any particular talent for reviewing, knowledge of writing and literature, or anything else.

Next, MBR doesn't want prepublication review copies, uncorrected galleys, advance reading copies, or any of the other texts that are used by normal review sources. They want the finished book, after publication. It's possible that it's to cut down on the number of books they'd otherwise get whose only copy is the one sent to them for review. But that means that their reviews are useless for publicity ... the review will come out after the book's been available for weeks or months, too late for bookstore owners to use in their shelving decisions, too late to put a quote on the cover (the cover was printed long before MBR ever saw it). What this does for MBR, though, is it allows their reviewers to make a little money on the side by selling their review copies as used on Amazon.

Which leads us to the third reason the MBR isn't taken seriously. Every review they post is a good review. Their reviewers haven't met a book they didn't like. How to tell the good from the bad from the mediocre from the ambitious from the hackeneyed, if all the reviews say the book is superlative?
 
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