Writers Literary Agency / The Literary Agency Group / LAG /TLAG

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vulcanse

I was fooled too.

I google'd literary agents and the NYLA came up so I went to it and got sucked in. I went as far as the critique for $89 and signed the contract. I feel like a rube after reading this forum. I should have checked up on them. Live and learn I guess. I am going to e-mail them and cancel contract. Thank you for the eye opener.
Can you tell me where I can find a real agent?
I would appreciate any advice.
Thanks
Pete
 

Aconite

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Pete, the Index to Agents, Publishers, and Others thread on this board has links to threads on researching agents. Good luck with your next.
 

bhb

a form letter fo all to use to reply to the NYLA

I too received a cyber-response from NYLA. I sent them back a form letter, and attached it below for all those out there who would like to use it. I hope it helps.

---BEGIN HERE---

Dear Sherry,

Thank you for your interest in my work. You have no idea how frustrating it is to find agencies out there with a real appreciation for new voices in writing!

Before I send you my entire manuscript, I will first need a small deposit from your agency to insure a smooth transaction of materials. This fee, of course, will be fully refunded along with the generous commission you will receive when my book gets published.

Please send a certified check for $1000 (one thousand) dollars, made out to (your name), and promptly mail it to:

(your address)

I look forward to our new partnership and can't wait to start making waves in the literary world, thanks to my new friends at NY Literary Agency!

Regards,

(your name)

---END HERE---
 

Gravity

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:::snerk::: That's pretty good! Oddly enough, I don't think Bobby, er, Sherry, will get the joke. He/she has shown himself/herself singularly lacking a sense of humor. (And yes, I know your letter is meant to get their goat).

Baaa for us, Bob; there's a good boy.
 

MartyKay

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I really don't understand why the sock puppets bother.
Posting here will not help their cause. Anything they post has to answer the very simple question of "Have. You. Sold. Anything. Ever?" which they fail to answer. Ignoring the question means they are hit with it next time. The sock puppets can then be held up to be exemplars of the moronic form.
Not posting here won't help their cause either, but it also won't hurt it.

Sock puppets, you HAVE TO POST RESULTS TO WIN THIS. Results. Not Bragging about possibilities. Not saying you are unique or special -- you are not a snowflake. Results.

Who you published. What you published. Which (real!) publisher. When. Where. How much. Names. Real names.
 

MadScientistMatt

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Marty, I think their problem is that they read their criticism only slightly more carefully than they read their submissions. So they may actually be unaware that "You haven't sold anything" is one of the most common charges leveled against them, just like they were unaware that the screenwriter blog community was using the Screenplay Agency's submission form to hold an impromptu bad logline contest.

Really, their abysmal reading comprehension skills alone would be enough to not submit to them.
 
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Roger J Carlson

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MartyKay said:
I really don't understand why the sock puppets bother.
Posting here will not help their cause.
They probably believe the Barnum Principles: 1) There's a sucker born every minute. 2) No publicity is bad publicity.

Traffic in these threads will drive a certain number of curiosity seekers. Of them, there will be a small percentage of suckers. These people will fall for the guff and give them a try despite the evidence. So in a wierd sense, it's in their interest to keep these threads alive.

Does that mean I think we should stop these threads? No. These threads help more people than they hurt. We get people all the time (myself included) who were smart enough to do a Google search and landed here. We can't save everybody, but we can warn those who will listen.
 

johnny quest

Almost A Sucker!

This a copy of a recent reply from "The Screenplay Literary Agency".



Ms. Fine,
I am concerned, I have been doing a search on you and your agency, and to be quite frank the blogs are not good. (Man Bytes Hollywood: She never met a logline she didn't like) There are others not so flattering. It seems you take anyone and anything. Is this true? Please tell me you did not just rip my heart out. This means so much to me and my family. They took me to a congratulatory dinner in honor of getting an agent. I would like to think you truly liked my work. Can you send references that I my speak with? Our something to show faith? I hope and pray you answer me back with an honest original answer.


John Q.

Dear John,

There's no risk to you and I can guarantee you that we aren't what you are reading.

I'm giving you two answers to your question about what you've read. The first answer is the short one, and the second is the long one. I apologize in advance for any 'attitude' that you read in my reply, but it's a gut/core issue for us and we feel pretty strongly about certain things.


The short answer ....
We told the self-proclaimed industry watchdogs to shove it.
We've drawn the battle lines and we've said that unpublished
writers have very little chance of success unless they think differently.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We told the so-called watchdogs that they are hurting authors by maintaining 'old school' ideas. We explained that the agency business is so competitive now, that we can only focus on one thing, selling the work. The author has to take responsibility for bringing their work to industry standards. In short, we told the industry watchdogs that they don't get it, and they are promulgating old ideas that no longer apply. It didn't go over very well and they chatter incessantly, but if you think a writer has thick skin, you should try being an agent.

We've been in business now long enough to know that our model works, and that buyers respect the fact that EVERY AUTHOR WE REPRESENT HAS BEEN THROUGH A RIGOROUS CRITIQUE AND EDITING PROCESS. What you read on the boards is just authors whining about having to do more work, which they want us to do for free. Think about it for just a minute. If you were buying an unpublished author's work, wouldn't you want to buy work that had been through the proverbial wringer? And wouldn't you want to buy work that could get to market faster, because the grunt work, the editing, had already been done.

In the end, the truth of the matter is that you really want an agency that is willing to break a few rules on your behalf. The 'old school' doesn't want you to get in, and that's the truth. We have 4 sales, most agencies only have 1 or two. We will double that this year we think and you really need to consider whether some 'anonymous' board poster really has your best interest at heart or if you should give us a try, eyes wide open, and see if we don't keep our promises which are * We respect what you have accomplished thus far as a writer, * We believe that great authors are made, not born. We are willing to
develop talent. * We pledge straight talk in a confusing and old-school industry. * We can't promise a sale. We can promise a professional relationship.



------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's one author's reply to this email. We hope you are this discerning. "Thank you for the trouble you took to explain what's on those boards. I think I understand your frustration with the critics and nay sayers now. I have reviewed again the on-line comments and sources and agree that there is really nothing substantive in either their remarks or criticisms. In fact most of them whine about nearly everyone".
-----------------------------------------------------------------


Here's the long answer:
----------------------------------------
We are keenly aware of the negative material on a lot of writer's message boards. I thank you for 'seeking first to understand". Once again, sorry for the length of this email, but there's a lot to try to communicate to you.

I know it is confusing to authors. Luckily most authors can detect that there's something very negatively one sided about most boards, and a good author will ask for more information.

I think you would agree that it's tough to even get a reply from an Agency. Most authors (98%) can't get the time of day from an Agent. Why? Because invariably the author's work needs improvement and if an Agent takes the time to say, "I like the idea, but you need a little help" the Agent is blackballed by every writers blog on the net. So, it's easier to say no, or not reply, than to actually try to help a writer with a good idea and a good start.

Successful writers of books and screenplays use editors and coaches, always have, always will.. if you've never worked with an editor, you should. I would say that 95+% of the books on the shelves today have had an editors touch, either through the publishing company or as directed by an agent. There are two levels of editing. The first is our internal level. The second is the publisher level. When you pass our first level, it means that we will put our reputation on the line for you, however, it doesn't mean that it has been exhaustively edited, like a publisher would do. Their edit is MUCH more extensive. Our edit requirements are related to pitching and selling only.

THIS IS THE REAL ISSUE: If an agent assists the writer by telling them to get editing and then the agent will represent them, they get blackballed. So, here's a situation where potentially great work is 'waiting in the wings' so to speak, and can't get access to the market because Agents are overwhelmed and gunshy.

Luckily (for those authors that can see through the bs), we've decided that the old model is dead and we want new fresh talent. We want authors that want to improve and have their chance. And, our management team is a group of business warriors that basically say, "screw the naysayers because buyers love our model".

Why do buyers (publishers and producers) love our model? Because they know that we've forced the writer to jump through a series of hoops to prove their mettle. And the writers whine, whine, whine, and the publishers say, "whew, thanks for bringing us great work and for filtering out the crackpot writers that want the world and don't have an understanding of how competitive the market is." BUYERS WANT WRITERS THAT HAVE INVESTED IN THEMSELVES AND THEIR WRITING.

But why all the negative press you might ask? In short, the message boards attract unsuccessful writers. It's quite a statistical anomoly isn't it. A successful writer isn't sitting around responding to message boards, a successful writer is improving their craft, making submissions, and writing. As I'm sure you've seen the pettiness on the boards.. That pettiness is, to me, worse than a National Enquirer that you read in the grocery line, and frankly, I think the message boards attract the same caliber of people. Also, just for the fun of it, you should ask the people that work the boards to be your agent, and see how many writers run to help you.

LET ME STATE THIS AGAIN.. ASK THE PEOPLE ON THE MESSAGE BOARDS, BECAUSE THEY ARE SO SMART, WHAT THEY'VE SOLD, AND WHO THEIR AGENT WAS... And whether they'd be your agent. <I'm sorry to be a bit cynical here, but I'm sure you can see why? Nobody on those boards is going to work for you.. they aren't going to coach you, prep you, and try to sell your work.>

That said, we've come to thank these boards. The boards weed out three main categories of writers that we are actually glad to be rid of: 1) Authors that don't have a clue, 2) Authors that can't make up their mind for themselves and don't have any "grit", and 3) the SFN's (writers that want Something for Nothing). I hope that you aren't in any of those three categories. The Something For Nothing authors really get my goat, but that's another rant. Those are the authors that think we'll bear all their expenses because they've 'written the next bestseller'... egads...


Reread the 4 bullets under my signature. That's our promise. It's simple and it's understandable, and we deliver on it all day, every day. (Like this email really).

So, in conclusion, this is what I would do, if I were in your shoes, I'd proceed with us, eyes wide open, and see if we meet or exceed our four business tenets below, A) Respect, B) Building Talent, 3) Straight Talk, and a 4) Professional Relationship.

Just for grins, and so that you know we provide a service of value to aspiring authors, I would like you to see some of the unprompted quotes that we receive on a daily basis. Our clients say it best. The quotes below are unedited and as you can see, quite from the heart. (We have lots more of these.) If you are really cynical, you will probably believe we made them up, but I promise you, we can prove every one of them.

=======================

"Just a note to say, whatever the outcome of my submission, it's refreshing to engage an agent who will a) take an email submission, b) turn it round as quick you've committed to do and c) actively work with a writer. Submissions are daunting enough anyway without having to wait ten weeks for an impersonalised slip of paper. Here's to you."

"It is refreshing to get an honest professional opinion of my work, it make me realise just how much I don't know about the written word and its presentation."

Dear Georgina, I'd like you to know how highly and gratefully I regard the clarity with which you explain the process as well as your reliability. I have complete trust in both your abilities and ethical standards. Best wishes, Judith

It's been a long time since I left school with considerable number of years passing before I became interested in writing again. I would like you to thank you for working with me and let it be known that I look at this as a new beginning and rebirth of my education.

You don't know how nice it is to have such timely responses. I am sure I am not the only writer that puts a lot of heart into their work and I have to say, I have "kept mine tucked away in the closet" for many, many years. I just enjoy writing, but didn't know if I would ever try and submit it to anyone. Making the decision to do that has been somewhat of a nerve-wracking process. Your timely responses and professional, yet "down-to-earth" responses are making the process a lot easier. At this time, I am not submitting my work to anyone else, because you have impressed me the most up to this point. Even if we do not end up working together, I felt it was important to pass this along to you.

Dear Georgina: Your professional zeal and resourcefulness cannot be overemphasized seeing the volatile-oceanic-wave called the American Hollywood with its impregnable sales frontiers.I hold you dearly to my heart in my every prayers towards our mutual success now and...very soon in sbsequent works.I doff my heart after your every professional spirit imagining the energy, sweat and travellings involved. Thanks for everything you stand for professionally.

Thank you for your constructive feedback. I found your critique of my work very informative, and it concluded many things that I already knew. I really do need to improve on my punctuation skills, and that has been something I have struggled with for some time. I appreciate your suggestions on materials to improve this, and I plan on taking an advanced grammar and puctuation class at the college I am attending. Several other points you made were also very informative. I know I have a long way to go before I am a "professional" writer, but I am glad that you agreed that the potential is definitely there. I'd also like to thank you and your company for staying in contact with me through this process. I would, and will, come back to your company if I need further material critiqued. Thank you again for your time.

I just want to say I have been rejected for years by Agents and Publishers. After awhile it all seems pointless. But I am in this for the long run and will never give up and never give in. Whether you accept me or not you have restored my faith and hope that someone out there is concerned and listening to what writings go through. I look forward to learning all that I can from you and your associates.

"After having reread all the information sent to me, I must say that I am impressed by the way your agency has handled the science, or art of appreciating new sources of writing. If only all agencies displayed your model the world may be a better place. Your FAQ has answered all of my questions and i am eager to get to work."

===========================

WE ARE CREATING THE MOST POWERFUL AGENCY GROUP IN THE UNITED STATES. Every author that we represent has been fully edited and we know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that their work is good enough for publication. Unfortunately, the ones that 'wash out', tend to grouse and *****. If you can make it through our process, then you will be in an elite group that buyers respect. We never promise a sale, but we can promise that if we present your work, it will get respect from our buyers.

Best to you in your career whatever your decision. I hope you give us a chance to prove ourselves. What's your real risk anyway?





Best regards,
Sherry Fine - VP Acquisitions


Our Pledge To You:
==================
* We respect what you have accomplished thus far as a writer.
* We believe that great authors are made, not born. We are willing to develop talent.
* We pledge straight talk in a confusing and old-school industry.
* We can't promise a sale. We can promise a professional relationship.


p.s. Missed Emails, Spam, Whitelists, and other reasons for lapses in communications. We are very, very diligent about returning every email that we receive within a couple of days. The same is true for our vendors and suppliers. IF YOU DO NOT RECEIVE A COMMUNICATION AND YOU BELIEVE THAT YOU SHOULD HAVE, PLEASE, CHECK WITH US AND WE WILL SEE WHAT HAPPENED. Please don't jump to negative conclusions. The Internet is not 100% foolproof and we are very sensitive to our clients' expectations and our promises about timely communications.


She never answered my question! She should run for office. I told her not in a million years. BEWARE!








 

Gravity

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Just their usual cut'n'paste argle-bargle, Johnny. The Internet is proving to be their downfall, as they simply cannot plug the leaks (where the truth about them is coming out) fast enough. Must suck to be them. Not only is Bouncin' Bob a convicted conman, it seems he's cocked this up too. Pity.

Not.


John
 

James D. Macdonald

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That's Robert "`The Swindler" Fletcher's standard letter. It's already been dealt with, in far more detail than you probably care to read, here:

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=729&page=13&pp=25

and here:

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13517&page=2&pp=25

She says, "I hope you give us the chance to prove ourselves."

Well, if you care to write back to them, you can give them the chance to prove themselves: Ask them for the titles, authors, and publishers of their most recent, most prestigious sales.
 
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MadScientistMatt

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Gravity said:
Just their usual cut'n'paste argle-bargle, Johnny. The Internet is proving to be their downfall, as they simply cannot plug the leaks (where the truth about them is coming out) fast enough. Must suck to be them. Not only is Bouncin' Bob a convicted conman, it seems he's cocked this up too. Pity.

Not.


John

For that matter, the Internet is also very useful for comparing notes about the LAG's emails, revealing that they send identical emails to just about everyone who acts suspicious.

What really amuses me is that Johnny's letter mostly talks about the charge that the Screenplay Agency takes any submission. And "Sherry" cuts and pastes something that mentions watchdogs, message boards, their critique services... but says absolutely nothing about the charge that they will not reject a submission.

Like I said, this agency doesn't seem to hire anyone with reading comprehension skills. Or maybe their response to complaints is just as automated as their response to querries.
 

HapiSofi

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Submissions!

Woo-hoo! I have here two recent submissions from The Literary Agency Group! They were passed on to me by a friend who works in a reasonably well-known trade publishing house.

===============
Dear [Editor]:

Research into your current portfolio tells us you are actively seeking to acquire [genre #1] [genre #2] novels. Our literary agency believes [title]name] is worthy of your consideration. Allow me to briefly point out a few details about this work.

>>> [title] [word length] [genre elements in this work]

>>> [setup]

>>> [brief plot description]

>>> [author bio]

>>> This novel was formally edited by Writers Literary.
[or]
>>> This manuscript has been professionally edited and has received a great review.

I believe we have followed your submission guidelines (see attached) and I look forward to your reply within the timeframes we have set forth.

Best Regards,

[large scrawly capital G]

Georgina Scott, Group Senior Agent
(866)876-4488
[email protected]

Encl: [physical description of submission package]

[Footnote:] Our mission is to save you, the buyer, time and money. How? Every author that we represent has been through a rigorous critique and editing process. Over time, you will learn that you can tgrust what we send you, especially if you give us feedback as to what you are "looking for now".
===============

The next page is an "Agency submission fax reply" form. The header information includes title, author, agent, agent phone, publisher, imprint name, contact name, and email address. It looks like the bits that aren't specific to this title and author are the information that Fletcher's new employee has been researching and compiling.

Below the headers there's a box with five check-off questions. The first three are yes/no:
Was this submission sent to the proper person? Spelling and address correct?

Was it formatted, printed and delivered according to your specifications?

Was the pitch congruent with what you have mentioned wanting to see?
The fourth question, Would you like to see more like this, or something different?, has check-off boxes saying more like this/different.

The fifth question is Final Disposition, and the check-off options are No way; Close, but no; I didn't love it, no; and hmmmm*....

The footnote referenced by that asterisk says:
Please call or email Robert West at 888-808-6195 for more information, feedback, or any general questions about how we can help you find your next bestseller.
Between the question box and the footnote is this text:
OUR VALUE STATEMENT TO YOU, THE PUBLISHER
We believe we represent the largest group of edited manuscripts and credentialed authors in the world. (We know, that's quite a claim, but we think it's true.) Our authors are realists and not prima donnas. We can vouch for their professionalism and their desire to work with you, the publisher, to do what it takes for mutual success.

On the last line at the bottom of the page, it says:
Fax (800) 759-2081 THE LITERARY AGENCY GROUP, INC. Ofc. (888) 808-6195
One of the submissions has a further cover letter on it from an editor who says that s/he/it worked on the book, and gives forth with a little imitation sales copy.

==================

I get two strong impressions from these submissions. First, these are obviously form letters. TLAG is trying to automate the submission process as much as possible, including the part where they fine-tune their approach in accordance with the response they get. That's not a feasible strategy. I suspect they want to save labor, and don't want to have to actually interact with the books.

Second, it couldn't be clearer that they don't like authors, and they're sure that publishing houses don't like them either. Their biggest come-on is that they've already whipped the authors into shape, so they won't give us any trouble.
 
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JennaGlatzer

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:Jaw: :roll:

And to Johnny: I'm so sorry you had to find that out. A long time ago, I had a very similar experience. I was over the moon when screenwriting "agent" Mark Maine wanted to sign me. Took me months to realize he never even read my script, and was just interested in my wallet.
 
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James D. Macdonald

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Georgina Scott? Who's that? Is this a different person from Georgina Orr, who (by one of life's eerie coincidences) also had as her email address [email protected]?

On the positive side, at least they've started submitting things.

On the negative side ... Hapi, that thing makes my brain hurt.

(BTW, there is no reason to believe that Robert West and Robert Fletcher are two different people.)
 

JennaGlatzer

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Perhaps my favorite part is:

especially if you give us feedback as to what you are "looking for now".

Nonsensical quotation marks really make me giggle. I always feel like someone is winking and nudging when typing them. Like "looking for now" is really a code for something deliciously illicit.
 

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Conversely (pun intended), we ought to have a listing somewhere to keep a tally of how many $1.00 advances we've saved PA from paying by showing writers the truth about them. Heck, P&E is responsible for saving PA at least a few hundred bucks already, probably far more. ;)
 

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MadScientistMatt said:
HapiSofi,

Are you saying that the check boxes for "Final Disposition" have nothing to check to say you accepted the manuscript?

Shades of the Lee Shore agency's rejection collection ploys.
It's very like the old Lee Shore auto-reject forms. You know the point of those, right? They were intended to speed up the process. After a series of fast rejections, Lee Shore's clients would be softened up like a well-pounded Salisbury steak, all ready for Cynthia Sterling's final sting.
 

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HapiSofi, Bobby/Georgina/Georgina/Sherry/Rey/Ray is so pathetic! It really hurt to read that "submission" form letter. At best, the publisher would probably throw the manuscript into the slush pile. At worst, they would automatically reject anything that ever comes their way from Mr. Fake Agent. Most likely the latter would happen. Bobby's not getting one penny from me.
 

HapiSofi

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My impression was that the submissions had in fact been shunted off to the slushpile.
 

James D. Macdonald

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Alan Yee said:
At worst, they would automatically reject anything that ever comes their way from Mr. Fake Agent.

Alan, you fail to appreciate the full beauty of the plan.

These guys do not want to make real sales. Dealing with real publishers, negotiating contracts, collecting and disbursing royalties, checking for reversions, arranging subrights sales -- too much work for not enough reward.

Here's the way the full scam works (and no, this isn't anything new, unique or outside-the-box-thinking ... it's been done many times by many fake agents). After picking up a bunch of fast rejections from real publishers, rejections that the author can actually see and confirm (with some more rounds of paid critiques and paid edits in between), the agent calls the author all excited ... a sale! A real, verifiable sale! Hurrah! It's a "co-publishing" deal (the next big thing, the wave of the future!) Aren't you excited? I'm excited! Your agent recommends that you not allow this opportunity to escape! What Bobby won't tell the m/a/r/k/ author is that he owns the publishing house ... so the author is paying Bobby to print his own book. After that, it's the standard pay-to-play vanity deal, with Fletcher himself as the vanity publisher. Why let someone else make the bulk of the profit on a sucker that Fletcher found and nurtured when Bobby can get every nickel himself?

If along the way some start-up small press buys a book (just because an author had the bad luck to fall for this scam doesn't mean he wrote a bad book), well, Fletcher can weather a few of those, and he'll have a real sale or two that he can list on his web page.

Hapi, could you ask your friend if there's any way to contact the author directly from the submission package Fletcher sends? (Bet there isn't. Can't risk having someone from outside the scam world talk with the author.)
 

johnny quest

Thank God for you guys!

I appreciate all your input and this forum is the bomb.
Just keep writing and the real thing will find us.

God Bless you guys.

Johnny Q.
 
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